A crime against Rugby & Bernie. Your help needed
- Thread starter Gagger
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Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Carter is possibly the best all rounder, but Larkham is still my pick of the group...
Personally, I don't think goal kicking abilty should be a judging factor...
Larkham is by far the best attacking player of the group... his defence was solid... and while the other two might be slightly better in regards to tactical kicking, Bernie was still pretty incredible and pulled off some great kicks when it mattered, as highlighted in the RWC 2003 final for Tuqiri's try, and the 2004 S12 final with Roff's...
Personally, I don't think goal kicking abilty should be a judging factor...
Larkham is by far the best attacking player of the group... his defence was solid... and while the other two might be slightly better in regards to tactical kicking, Bernie was still pretty incredible and pulled off some great kicks when it mattered, as highlighted in the RWC 2003 final for Tuqiri's try, and the 2004 S12 final with Roff's...
Brisbok
Cyril Towers (30)
Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you are a Brumbies fan would it? I think the results in both polls give a good indication of how dominant Carter is. Bear in mind that neither of the polls comes from a Kiwi website, so it is very unlikely that there is a NZ bias.
Brisbok
Cyril Towers (30)
Would you say that they love Kiwi's and hate Australians then? I don't think Larkham was the type of player that other countries tended to dislike or hate (with the exception of us South African's after the 1999 RWC semi-final!!). Perhaps they just think Carter is a better player?
MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
Maybe they just think DC is a better player?
Poms don't like the All Blacks much, so I think your way off track here.
Swat
Chilla Wilson (44)
I'm not saying that Larkham was better than Carter or vice versa... All I'm saying is that the poorer results with larkham might be attributed to anti-australian sentiment... As is evident in both polls... For me, Carter and Larkham are miles ahead of wilkinson. In my opinion he would have made a better outside center than flyhalf
Swat
Chilla Wilson (44)
It shows the difference in thinking. If it is a must that your 5/8 kicks for goal (when there is another 14 players on the field who could also do it) then effectively you need to pick your 5/8 based on their kicking rather than distribution. So a good kicker is a good 5/8. Where as we will pick a 5/8 who can distribute, and make sure that the team has people who can kick... It has sometimes been to our detriment, but it means when we do come across a good kicker who fits into our team we scare the shit out of opposing backlines...
I'd have Bernie over Carter, but only if we had a really good goal-kicker as well. But only by a hair. Carter just does everything well. He underplays his hand in attack often, but only because he can, I think. Bias aside, he really is the pick of all of them, but I just loved watching Larkham play.
I don't measure a 10 by goal-kicking with any great weighting.
I don't measure a 10 by goal-kicking with any great weighting.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Australians will do well to stop flattering themsevels that the Poms actually give a toss.
They don't. Ask them.
FrankLind
Colin Windon (37)
Bernie was a great 1st five in attack and not too bad in defense(considering his build). He also had a cool head on his shoulders. I think his line kicking was pretty good too wasn't it?
I think the best first-five purely in attack was Carlos Spencer, but flaky in other areas.
I think Carter is excellent in all areas and the best first-five to ever play the game.
Interestingly, he said, prior to the 1st French game, he had been holding back in attack in earlier games in 2011 to allow others to step up - i.e., Nonu. This is half the reason Nonu shone through this year, Carter focused more on putting him the right place. To say Carter was a good all-rounder ignores the fact that he performs every facet of the job to a very high level.
Sorry for the manlove.:-[
I think the best first-five purely in attack was Carlos Spencer, but flaky in other areas.
I think Carter is excellent in all areas and the best first-five to ever play the game.
Interestingly, he said, prior to the 1st French game, he had been holding back in attack in earlier games in 2011 to allow others to step up - i.e., Nonu. This is half the reason Nonu shone through this year, Carter focused more on putting him the right place. To say Carter was a good all-rounder ignores the fact that he performs every facet of the job to a very high level.
Sorry for the manlove.:-[
How often have you seen the pommy pack go backwards, especially around 2003?
Knuckles
Ted Thorn (20)
Larkham was better than all of them in my opinion. The bloke just glided through gaps or threw magic passes to put blokes away. All with the luxury of time to do it, or so it seemed. True champions always look like they have time. JW was effective in his day, but once the Dad's Army pack retired, he began to get injured, because he could not hide in the pocket and kick drop goals. He had to stand in the line and attempt to get a backline moving. He failed to do this. Larkham did it behind a pack that at best, held its own, but certainly did not dominate like the Pommy 03 pack did. And one other thing Larkham had to deal with that no other 10 had too, was Gregan was his 9. Imagine how much better Larkham would've looked again had he had a 9 who could actually pass it to him!
As for ROG, please? Granted, not many teams win matches when they enter into a kicking duel against him, but he is an absolute liability in defence. And at test level, again in my opinion, that discounts him immediately. Players like Darcy, O'Driscoll, and the fullback (name escapes me sorry), would be legends of the game had they had Larkham inside them.
As for ROG, please? Granted, not many teams win matches when they enter into a kicking duel against him, but he is an absolute liability in defence. And at test level, again in my opinion, that discounts him immediately. Players like Darcy, O'Driscoll, and the fullback (name escapes me sorry), would be legends of the game had they had Larkham inside them.
Obviously didn't see Mark Ella run around, FL. Or Barry John.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I think Bernie's weakness wasn't his kicking, but his habit of standing really deep when forwards struggling (watch QC (Quade Cooper) do same thing), made an easier targets for loosies and hence gives opposing tighties too much front foot ball. In saying that was still a very good flyhalf, but I would rate Wilkinson ahead as he controlled games better, where as Bernie had Gregan who more or less ran game from 9, it is actually one of differences between Wallabies and a lot of international teams in Gregans day, they tended to have 9 as playmaker, and 10 almost played like another 12. In saying that Carter ahead of them all, as I don't believe he has weaknesses.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Nah, Larkham was the magician who controlled the backline...
Gregan was the general who provided the go between forwards and backs...
In attack, Larkham is unrivalled...
Wilkinson's kicking and defence is solid, but he can't run a backline like Bernie...
Carter is a great all rounder, but I would still go with Bernie... simply because I don't factor in goal kicking, and while all 3 are solid in defence, and Carter and Wilkinson are better players with the boot, I'm more impressed by Larkham's attacking qualities and backline management...
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