3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Rugby Central]

Interesting that the ARU has "signed off" on this but aren't meeting with the clubs until early December. Maybe the ARU has another source of players for their competition rather than from the clubs given that the timing of the competition is either going to mean we're back to a 1 round Shute Shield or it will clash with the Shute Shield play-off series. Sounds like the death of club rugby to me.

I beg to differ Coach. Mostly becasue there's not emough information to make that call. Secondly the ARU would have to follow through. Again form would be against this.

Sarcasm aside, it could be the rejuvination of Club rugby if done right. The following is rose coloured spitblling but just as valid as anything else at this point.

An eight team home and away competition running from early March would finish mid August. Yes some teams would be "relegated". However, allow a promotion/relegation format between all the Clubs and the competiton would be vibrant and healthy with players coming from anywhere. Sorry to rain on your SS parade but there are 50 other Clubs in Sydney alone. Some have been going for over 100 years while new one's pop up every year. So it will not kill Club Rugby. It will simply force the the SS Clubs to adapt. Going back to my earlier post about eligibility, if you want to make the Sydney sides in the NRC you have to play in a Sydney Club. Take that Brumbies

The NRC could create interest in Club Rugby as every armchair and professional critic will have their opinion on who should be in the sides.

Thinking laterally, why not create a cross-divisional knockout comp running from Mid August right up until the Spring tour. Yes the super stars are in the NRC or Wallabies but it would still be pretty good rugby. Then you would have competitive rugby running non-stop from Feb to November. Who wouldn't want to see Balmain get their bluff called, or watch a freakish Blue Mountains side down a cocky Norths outfit.

I have no idea what's going to happen but if you see change as death then it's unlikely anything would satisfy you.

 

[the coach]

I beg to differ Coach. Mostly becasue there's not emough information to make that call. Secondly the ARU would have to follow through. Again form would be against this.

Sarcasm aside, it could be the rejuvination of Club rugby if done right. The following is rose coloured spitblling but just as valid as anything else at this point.

An eight team home and away competition running from early March would finish mid August. Yes some teams would be "relegated". However, allow a promotion/relegation format between all the Clubs and the competiton would be vibrant and healthy with players coming from anywhere. Sorry to rain on your SS parade but there are 50 other Clubs in Sydney alone. Some have been going for over 100 years while new one's pop up every year. So it will not kill Club Rugby. It will simply force the the SS Clubs to adapt. Going back to my earlier post about eligibility, if you want to make the Sydney sides in the NRC you have to play in a Sydney Club. Take that Brumbies

The NRC could create interest in Club Rugby as every armchair and professional critic will have their opinion on who should be in the sides.

Thinking laterally, why not create a cross-divisional knockout comp running from Mid August right up until the Spring tour. Yes the super stars are in the NRC or Wallabies but it would still be pretty good rugby. Then you would have competitive rugby running non-stop from Feb to November. Who wouldn't want to see Balmain get their bluff called, or watch a freakish Blue Mountains side down a cocky Norths outfit.

I have no idea what's going to happen but if you see change as death then it's unlikely anything would satisfy you.

I agree that we need to wait to see what the plan is as the ARU haven't bothered to tell anyone yet, including the clubs. But they have decided to go ahead anyway!

I'm also concerned that the financing has come partially from getting rid of the Sydney and Brisbane academies. How is that a positive step in providing "pathways for kids to play rugby"?

 

[Rugby Central]

Hey Coach,

Don't get me wrong, I think the ARU have handled this poorly but the Clubs do need to tread lightly here because what, in reality, can they do. You asked, where will the players come from?

The answer is, from wherever there are players who want to play at a higher level. If the SS Clubs want to play hardball, the ARU could just go around them. Brisbane, Canberra, even European based players. Not the Top 14 or Heniken Cup guys but some at the level below would come back for a chance to play professional rugby at home. The SS players serious about Rugby careers would simply leave Sydney.

I personally believe that SS is and should be the flagship of Australian domestic Rugby. Unfortunately this has been mugged by reality so it's a matter of finding the best way to take advantage of the situation or being left out of the loop.

 

[Rugby Central]

I agree that we need to wait to see what the plan is as the ARU haven't bothered to tell anyone yet, including the clubs. But they have decided to go ahead anyway!

I'm also concerned that the financing has come partially from getting rid of the Sydney and Brisbane academies. How is that a positive step in providing "pathways for kids to play rugby"?

The academies were never a viable "pathway". It was the main reason Australia has gone backwards as a rugby nation. Again, this new paradigm can only be of benefit to Club Rugby.

Rather than creating some of the best trainers money can buy, guys would be playing rugby, learning on the job along side hardened and experienced players.

Instead of blokes learning the "technical skill" of scrummaging only to have some old bastard teach them the dark art through pain and injury, We will finally have Wallabies stepping onto the park with a thousnad hardfought contact lessons rather than the cuddly padding of a scrum machine.

The best pathway to top level is match experience. If the money comes from dismantleing the flawed concept of academies then all the better.

 

[sidelinesid]

Down a dark alley but not mugged just yet

 

[SackRobbie]

OK here is whata I know from good sources

Fox Sports will be broadcasting the 3rd tier
Done and dusted just need to finalise the money that Fox will pay
I have heard Fox are offering 3.5 mil and ARU want 5 mil
So by watching American Pickers on A&E they will split it and go for 4.25mil

The ARU is relying on the Fox money to go through otherwise the comp cannot be run. Fox are coming to the party like T&F said.

Interesting that the ARU has "signed off" on this but aren't meeting with the clubs until early December. Maybe the ARU has another source of players for their competition rather than from the clubs given that the timing of the competition is either going to mean we're back to a 1 round Shute Shield or it will clash with the Shute Shield play-off series. Sounds like the death of club rugby to me.

The ARU has spoken to many clubs about being the new comp. Some have indicated they are in if they can afford it & other have said they are out. You'd be surprised by who is interested.....

I agree that we need to wait to see what the plan is as the ARU haven't bothered to tell anyone yet, including the clubs. But they have decided to go ahead anyway"

They have told the clubs & the numbers men from the clubs have come in to talk to the ARU about this.

 

[the coach]

Hey Coach,

Don't get me wrong, I think the ARU have handled this poorly but the Clubs do need to tread lightly here because what, in reality, can they do. You asked, where will the players come from?

The answer is, from wherever there are players who want to play at a higher level. If the SS Clubs want to play hardball, the ARU could just go around them. Brisbane, Canberra, even European based players. Not the Top 14 or Heniken Cup guys but some at the level below would come back for a chance to play professional rugby at home. The SS players serious about Rugby careers would simply leave Sydney.

I personally believe that SS is and should be the flagship of Australian domestic Rugby. Unfortunately this has been mugged by reality so it's a matter of finding the best way to take advantage of the situation or being left out of the loop.

One of the problems the ARC business model had (and other suggested comps have also had) was that the ARC clubs expected the players to be "full time professionals" for the brief period of the competition but they obviously couldn't pay them enough to live on for the rest of the year. I'll be interested to see how this new plan overcomes that problem. It's not just a matter of wanting to play at a higher level you've got to be able to put money on the table. Let's not forget the ARC LOST $5m -- it cost a lot more than that to run.

At this stage I'm sceptical that the ARU can make this work, but I'm happy to await the detail before commenting further.

PS: I'm also not convinced that the likes of Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell etc would be prepared to give up playing in Europe to come back and play in this comp. The timing will clash so it would have to be one or the other and I'd guess it will be 10 years or more (if ever) that the proposed comp will be able to match the money on offer from European and Japanese clubs.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

One of the problems the ARC business model had (and other suggested comps have also had) was that the ARC clubs expected the players to be "full time professionals" for the brief period of the competition but they obviously couldn't pay them enough to live on for the rest of the year. I'll be interested to see how this new plan overcomes that problem. It's not just a matter of wanting to play at a higher level you've got to be able to put money on the table. Let's not forget the ARC LOST $5m -- it cost a lot more than that to run.

At this stage I'm sceptical that the ARU can make this work, but I'm happy to await the detail before commenting further.

PS: I'm also not convinced that the likes of Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell etc would be prepared to give up playing in Europe to come back and play in this comp. The timing will clash so it would have to be one or the other and I'd guess it will be 10 years or more (if ever) that the proposed comp will be able to match the money on offer from European and Japanese clubs.

I'm fairly certain that with the initial attempt the ARU had forecast a loss for 4 or 5 seasons. So it wasn't unexpected. It was the expenses involved in running the Melboune squad and the accommodation needs that caught them off guard. And from what I can remember the $5m loss was what it cost the ARU to run the event. They weren't expecting to run a profit or even beak even.

 

[the coach]

I'm fairly certain that with the initial attempt the ARU had forecast a loss for 4 or 5 seasons. So it wasn't unexpected. It was the expenses involved in running the Melboune squad and the accommodation needs that caught them off guard. And from what I can remember the $5m loss was what it cost the ARU to run the event. They weren't expecting to run a profit or even beak even.

You may be right, but there was income from TV, sponsors, sale of merchandise and gate receipts and I thought all of that went to the ARU who then subsidised the clubs, but my memory's not what it used to be!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You may be right, but there was income from TV, sponsors, sale of merchandise and gate receipts and I thought all of that went to the ARU who then subsidised the clubs, but my memory's not what it used to be!

I don't know about the merchandise, sponsorship (though I think that was minimal) or gate takings but I do know that there was no income from broadcasting the competition. That was an expense as they had to pay the ABC to show it much like the current arrangement for the SS.

From memory and it's very rough, they forecast a $3.5 million loss in the first year. The Melbourne situation cost them more than $1 million than planned by having to import talent and having to find accommodation them for the period. The rest came from accommodation for teams leading into games. Much of that could be negated today with the establishment of the Rebels and adopting a similar system to that of the NBL. Teams fly in the morning of the game and then fly out later in the evening after the game. On the East Coast it would work quite well and the only location that may need accommodation would be any trip to Perth.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip> On the East Coast it would work quite well and the only location that may need accommodation would be any trip to Perth.

Stretchers under the grandstand to sleep on. Donation to the local Bush Fire Brigade (or one of the Junior Village Clubs) for running the BBQ for breakfast/lunch. Too easy.

If they are too proud to sleep under the grandstand, then billet them out.

 

[ChargerWA]

Haha, not having a dig at anyone but this thread started by talking about luring players back from Europe and now they are getting billeted out for the night because we can't afford accommodation. Like I said, not a dig but pretty funny progression.

Probably a pretty good analogy for why this competition is so difficult to pin down. So many stakeholders with so many different expectations.

 

[ChargerWA]

But I will say from a Western point of view, a national comp like being described could be the only legitimate 3rd tier if we want to build the depth required to take on the best. While young Rugby players have to leave their home to take the next step in the career progression too many talented young players will be lost along the way due to the hardship required to make the step and give legitimacy to the hopes of hundred more that there is a step for them to take.

 

[FiveStarStu]

Good to see wise head shave prevailed, and that the ARC is coming back largely intact.

I still maintain that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the competition that could not be fixed with time and patience. Hopefully, the ARU gives this one more time to grow into a product of its own.

Can't wait to see the Melbourne Rebels back in action!

 

[en_force_er]

Good to see wise head shave prevailed, and that the ARC is coming back largely intact.

I still maintain that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the competition that could not be fixed with time and patience. Hopefully, the ARU gives this one more time to grow into a product of its own.

Can't wait to see the Melbourne Rebels back in action!

Firstly we need to get rid of the concept of it being professional or anything close to it, it's about blokes getting opportunities.

Sure, they should be compensated for their time but nothing more than that. Most of them will probably be students anyway. It's the same way the NPC is run.

I imagine not having to relocate 25 blokes to Melbourne for 3 months will make the comp a shitload cheaper as well.

 

[Lindommer]

If the ARU get something like the 2007 ARC up and running they deserve hearty congratulations. BUT, the bloody-minded obstinacy of some of the established clubs in Sydney must be countered. Some of these clubs have no interest in rugby growing as new frontiers challenge their privileged positions in the game.

A few suggestions:

• Interstate teams fly in and out on the same day cutting down accommodation expenses. But not to and from Perth.
• Grounds - the eastern Sydney side playing at North Sydney Oval while the northern Sydney team playing at Gosford was a bit silly. How 'bout the eastern team use Redfern Oval? And the northern team play at Rat Park? If there's going to be a stadium development at Heffron Park in Maroubra rugby should make it known it'd like to be a major tenant.
• The figures for the 07 comp never added up, admittedly the first year was always going to be expensive. In the new model a LOT more responsibility should be put on the teams to raise their income.

TBH, I don't think there was much wrong with the 07 model (apart from the financial side). There were enormous benefits for Oz rugby which we, unfortunately, didn't build on in the succeeding years.

 

[Gibbo]

West Sydney Wanderers are the Bench mark that the ARU should be looking replicating. They are an amazing brand.

 

[RugbyReg]

West Sydney Wanderers are the Bench mark that the ARU should be looking replicating. They are an amazing brand.

Aren't they owned by the FFA? And they lost $1.5 million in their first year despite finishing to of the log (I think).

 

[Gibbo]

re: ownership - I think so Reg. But its a long play for the FFA
They are also packing out their home games. 15000+ members (not bad for a young club) Their fan base is fanatical. Their kit is seen everywhere on the streets.

 

[wamberal]

Rat Park? I thought the idea was to grow the game.

Sydney's demographic centre is west of Parramatta. If we do not start to act as though rugby is welcoming to the whole population we richly deserve to die out.