Not entirely true. The ARU hosted a big workshop with reps from wallabies, provinces, clubs, etc and created a document on what the outcomes and opportunities of such a tournament could be. It formed the basis of the ARC.
3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]
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Not entirely true. The ARU hosted a big workshop with reps from wallabies, provinces, clubs, etc and created a document on what the outcomes and opportunities of such a tournament could be. It formed the basis of the ARC.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
They may well have held a workshop, but what was implemented had little support from clubs, public or super franchises.
Nusadan
Chilla Wilson (44)
Speaking of Brookie Oval in an earlier post here way back, my wife passed this onto me:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...14472983.63247.210730945611610&type=1&theater
She'll be horrified to know that rugby matches could be slated to be played there in the near future!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...14472983.63247.210730945611610&type=1&theater
She'll be horrified to know that rugby matches could be slated to be played there in the near future!
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
If I remember correctly, one of the conditions for the $10 mil, plus matching $10 mil from the state government is that it must be used by more than just rugby league. Even now the field is marked out for futsal, which I understand is played there by locals.
Interestingly as a matter of balance Mr Albanese originally made the $10 mil pledge while still in government and challenged Abbott to guarrantee it if he won. Being the local member, he was stuck with it whether he liked it or not.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
I presume you're referring to the infamous Cap Gemini weekend workshop, Reg. The consultants engaged weren't there to listen to the opinions of the "reps from wallabies, provinces, clubs, etc." Rather they had already worked out with the ARU and others "what the outcomes and opportunities of such a tournament would be", and their brief was to snow those workshop participants who weren't in on the joke into meekly accepting it.
The most notorious provision was that instead of four Sydney clubs being admitted into the competition as expected, the four franchises for New South Wales were handed to the NSWRU to dispose of as they saw fit. That monumentally incompetent body saw an opportunity to ease the burden of their financial ineptitude and so, after gifting one franchise to Melbourne they announced that they would run the remaining three franchises themselves by creating synthetic entities which de facto assumed the functions of the Waratahs academy using funds generously provided by the ARU.
Thus we had the wonderfully absurdist outcome that the Warringah club was allocated to a franchise which played its home games at John Singleton's white-elephant Blue Tongue Stadium at Gosford. This gave rise to conjecture that it might have been quicker for the Rats players and fans to swim to Gosford than to drive there.
Honestly, you couldn't make this shit up.
I hope that my "rantings" here haven't been too "self-centred" or "self-publicising".
.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Singo rescued Gosford Stadium from oblivion, fortunately. It is not his white elephant, it was built by the NSW State Government.
It is actually a great venue for rugby, particularly when the game is to be televised. The Central Coast Rays were pretty well supported locally. If it was too far from some fans and players to travel, well, that's really tough.
Singo went out of his way to encourage our code to grow in the region, Gordon played some games there a few seasons ago, sponsored by 2GO.
The World Cup was hugely popular on the Central Coast. If our game had been a bit more attractive and inclusive we might have had a chance to build on that popularity. Even if it meant teams and supporters travelling all the way from (gasp) Sydney to Gosford.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Nothing wrong with the people of the Central Coast have a local team to support in 3T, just as there's nothing wrong with a 3T team in the northern suburbs of Sydney for locals there to support. The problem is when you try to do both at the same time with one team, it just won't work.
I wouldn't expect Central Coast people to drive to Brookvale or wherever to support a Northern Sydney team and more than I would expect people to drive from northern Sydney to Gosford for the same thing. Leaving aside the distance involved, you've actually hit the nail on the head in your post "it was well-supported locally" i.e. local people felt that it was "their" team. There's just no way people living in northern Sydney are going to think of a team located at Gosford as "their" team, there's no way that people living at Gosford would do the reverse.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
The Northern Eagles was a good example,they shared their home games between Gosford & Sydney.
At the end the Gosford crowd ended up consisting of die hard Norther Beaches supporters who travelled up there,and locals who were supporting the away team.
At the end the Gosford crowd ended up consisting of die hard Norther Beaches supporters who travelled up there,and locals who were supporting the away team.
suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
This is a really stupid question - but how far is it from (gasp) Sydney to Gosford? KM's & time wise?
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Forty-five minutes to an hour if the traffic's flowing. Depending on which route you take around 80 kms from Manly. Less from Hornsby as Wamberal highlights.
suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
So, the 300km 3 hrs + that I will have to drive to Ballymore to see one of these games................
All I can say is suck it up princesses. We need to make the effort otherwise the comp will not work.
All I can say is suck it up princesses. We need to make the effort otherwise the comp will not work.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
The success or otherwise of the ARC will depend on local support, for sure. It will also depend on the support of rugby followers who are not local, and the ratings that the product generates on the box (and maybe down the track on the net).
One thing is for sure and certain, if we only think about the relative handful of current club supporters (particularly those in the established areas) we will be missing out.
We need to find our potential audience, and many of them do not, perhaps surprisingly, live in Sydney's CBD, or the beach suburbs, or the North Shore.
If I had to pick my preferred criteria for success, first would be good venues from the point of view of television production values (including a reasonable level of crowd support, with the audio augmented as it is for the soccer), secondly would be that the teams are and are seen to be, genuine community-based teams that ANYBODY can identify with. Thirdly, the rugby has to be attractive and intelligently adjudicated to get rid of the technical bullsh**t that most people do not care about (in Australia, anyway).
Hugie
Ted Fahey (11)
Agree Wamberal,
However only the televised game on Thursday night needs to be up to "televise" standards, the other 3-4 games can be at any venue. The cost of these need to be kept to a minimum to allow the max gate money to follow to the team e.g. sounds like rat park is out.
To put some numbers on it I'm guessing that crowds of 2000 will be about break-even and 5000 will put the team on a sound financial footing, (except the non-commercial teams Perth, Melbourne and ACT).
However only the televised game on Thursday night needs to be up to "televise" standards, the other 3-4 games can be at any venue. The cost of these need to be kept to a minimum to allow the max gate money to follow to the team e.g. sounds like rat park is out.
To put some numbers on it I'm guessing that crowds of 2000 will be about break-even and 5000 will put the team on a sound financial footing, (except the non-commercial teams Perth, Melbourne and ACT).
suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
Wamberal & Hughie,
I don't disagree. I just get the shits with people saying that it is all to hard to travel 45mins to an hour for rugby. Yes I know I am a special case since I am passionate about the game but for at least 2 years at least some of us are going to have to put our selves out to show that this comp is wanted & supported.
FFS I have to drive 45 mins to an hour for my home club games. Up wards of 4 hours for some of the away games.
I don't disagree. I just get the shits with people saying that it is all to hard to travel 45mins to an hour for rugby. Yes I know I am a special case since I am passionate about the game but for at least 2 years at least some of us are going to have to put our selves out to show that this comp is wanted & supported.
FFS I have to drive 45 mins to an hour for my home club games. Up wards of 4 hours for some of the away games.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
I went to all the Rays games in Sydney and Gosford, driving from Collaroy, including the final which they won—plus the games of any team at NSO and one Rams'game at Parramatta Stadium against the ACT team.
Watched all the TV games and the streaming stuff with no commentary, but from the referee talking to other officials, and the players.
Maybe it was just me, but I could see the possibility of fans embracing the teams a bit if it lasted more than one year.
As I said on rugby forums about seven years ago: this attempt at something different may not work but we have to try it.
Maybe this is the second effort of four or five, and the last one works, but we have to find out what doesn't work, if we need a third try.
I'm sure that this second try will tick rugby boxes again, and I trust that it will tick the financial ones from what Pulver said. Maybe it won't.
There other other boxes such as: will it have a minimum effect on club rugby, will it have fans embracing the teams, will it help to assess players for Super Rugby better, will it help to develop players more that if it didn't exist, will it develop coaches and match officials…and yarda, yarda.
There are some who say we don't need it and that it could do harm, but the way things are going I think that it's worthwhile to be brave and give it a go.
It may even tick all the boxes, or most of them.
.
Watched all the TV games and the streaming stuff with no commentary, but from the referee talking to other officials, and the players.
Maybe it was just me, but I could see the possibility of fans embracing the teams a bit if it lasted more than one year.
As I said on rugby forums about seven years ago: this attempt at something different may not work but we have to try it.
Maybe this is the second effort of four or five, and the last one works, but we have to find out what doesn't work, if we need a third try.
I'm sure that this second try will tick rugby boxes again, and I trust that it will tick the financial ones from what Pulver said. Maybe it won't.
There other other boxes such as: will it have a minimum effect on club rugby, will it have fans embracing the teams, will it help to assess players for Super Rugby better, will it help to develop players more that if it didn't exist, will it develop coaches and match officials…and yarda, yarda.
There are some who say we don't need it and that it could do harm, but the way things are going I think that it's worthwhile to be brave and give it a go.
It may even tick all the boxes, or most of them.
.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
It's all too hard to travel 45 minutes if you are a fringe supporter.The rusted on supporters will do it,but there are not enough of them.
There are plenty of other things to do with less effort.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
Referring back to the ARC, the road distance from Palm Beach, in Warringah Rugby Club's territory, to Gosford is 89.3km, estimated to take 1hr 20m, unless of course traffic is banked up on the expressway, when it might take a day and a half give or take.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Some of you are missing the point. Distance is but one factor, but I'd suggest that feeling a link to the team is probably more important. Gosford and northern Sydney are 2 distinct places, you're not going to be able to set up a team which appeals to both as "their" local team. That's just reality.
The same goes for Sydney as a whole. The north/south divide works to a point, but at some stage as you travel west people no longer consider themselves north or south of the harbour but west. I'd even suggest that in the last 10 years or so it's further divided into north west and south west. So you're not going to sell a Northern Sydney team to someone living at Seven Hills just because they are north of the line of Sydney Harbour, nothing to do with how far they have to drive, they just won't identify with it as "their" team.
All JVs have to be big enough to appeal to enough people and small enough to appeal to people as their local team. The proposed Northern Sydney JV of Manly, Norths, Warringah and Gordon fits this bill, as does the hoped for Parra, Eastwood, Penrith & Wests JV. I also think that Easts, Rand & SD make a logical fit to cover the south-eastern region, notwithstanding Randwick seeming to prefer a stand-alone option.
We want to retain the people we have by having joint ventures wherever possible to maximise the supporter and sponsor base - remember at the grounds that these matches will be played there won't be a barbeque or club bar, the main way for clubs to make money is supporter merchanise. RL, A-League and AFL clubs confront this reality as well, it's not unique to 3T.
We also want to attract people who may have an interest in supporting rugby and while diehards might not blink at driving from North Sydney to Gosford, most people won't. That sort of strategy is setting yourself up to fail before you start.
The same goes for Sydney as a whole. The north/south divide works to a point, but at some stage as you travel west people no longer consider themselves north or south of the harbour but west. I'd even suggest that in the last 10 years or so it's further divided into north west and south west. So you're not going to sell a Northern Sydney team to someone living at Seven Hills just because they are north of the line of Sydney Harbour, nothing to do with how far they have to drive, they just won't identify with it as "their" team.
All JVs have to be big enough to appeal to enough people and small enough to appeal to people as their local team. The proposed Northern Sydney JV of Manly, Norths, Warringah and Gordon fits this bill, as does the hoped for Parra, Eastwood, Penrith & Wests JV. I also think that Easts, Rand & SD make a logical fit to cover the south-eastern region, notwithstanding Randwick seeming to prefer a stand-alone option.
We want to retain the people we have by having joint ventures wherever possible to maximise the supporter and sponsor base - remember at the grounds that these matches will be played there won't be a barbeque or club bar, the main way for clubs to make money is supporter merchanise. RL, A-League and AFL clubs confront this reality as well, it's not unique to 3T.
We also want to attract people who may have an interest in supporting rugby and while diehards might not blink at driving from North Sydney to Gosford, most people won't. That sort of strategy is setting yourself up to fail before you start.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
If you can get from Manly to Gosford in 45 minutes you're not using any of the roads that I've been on for the past 40 odd years. As a life long Manly resident who holidayed in Gosford as a kid and who regularly holidays now at Nelson Bay and makes a couple of trips to Gosford a year for kids sport, I can tell you I've never made it to Gosford or even the Gosford turn-off in 45 minutes. An hour and a quarter would be about as good as it gets maybe an hour and a half. For Thursday night matches as proposed for the NRC, you'd be looking at close to 2 hours or more through peak hour traffic getting there and about an hour and a quarter coming home. Then getting the kids up for school the next morning.
For some reason people in northern Sydney seem to be the whipping boys for all that is wrong with rugby on these threads. If I suggested that people at Baulkham Hills should be prepared to drive to Brookvale to watch rugby, I'd be rightly castigated as some sort of idiot, but apparently there's something wrong with people in northern Sydney because we won't drive en masse to Gosford to watch rugby.
Rant over.
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