3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[GaffaCHinO]

I wonder how london irish would feel about JOC (James O'Connor) shute shield team calling him up saying hey have a contract with him and he must play...

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[Train Without a Station]

Bond VC is rugby mad allegedly. Hence Bond taking on Breakers. Unless they were coming to the table, I wouldn't look to place a team there. Even then I would be cautious.

This is said as somebody who is Gold Coast grown, Bond alumni

 

[Train Without a Station]

"supersede" in what sense?
Do you mean legally?

Where do these Shute Shield contracts fit in to Super Rugby? Half of the Rebels squad are aligned to Shute Shield teams? Where is there a contract beyond the standard registration where they must gain clearance to play for another club, which is year to year anyway?

 

[Done that]

I wonder how london irish would feel about JOC (James O'Connor) shute shield team calling him up saying hey have a contract with him and he must play.

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Are you saying a Shute Shield club has no legal rights ?
Presumably you do not know that London Irish required a clearance from his Sydney club.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Are you saying a Shute Shield club has no legal rights ?
Presumably you do not know that London Irish required a clearance from his Sydney club.

Im saying there is no way a shute shield club could stop a player from playing a 3rd tier/super rugby game.

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[Done that]

Where do these Shute Shield contracts fit in to Super Rugby? Half of the Rebels squad are aligned to Shute Shield teams? Where is there a contract beyond the standard registration where they must gain clearance to play for another club, which is year to year anyway?

They "fit in" in most cases because their Shute Shield club places no impediment in their way if they are contracted to that club , or in other cases the player is not contracted to play for the club,so it
is not an issue.
You are confusing a contract between the club , which does exist in a number of cases,with a player , and registration with the club.
Registration is a year to year agreement ,a contract may be of any duration.

 

[Slim 293]

1. There's no chance a player is going to turn down an opportunity to play in a higher level of competition (Test, Super, 3T etc) so they can run out for some suburban club.

2. The clubs will not be able to prevent players from playing in a higher level of competition (Test, Super, 3T etc).

To believe otherwise is a fantasy.........

 

[RugbyFuture]

bond just announced their latest scholarship which is for ruggers and includes a years mentorship with John Eales, also fairly sure a while ago they were made the "official" tertiary educator for australian rugby or some weird stuff like that.

You're right it would be a good idea to get them on board.....

 

[wamberal]

1. There's no chance a player is going to turn down an opportunity to play in a higher level of competition (Test, Super, 3T etc) so they can run out for some suburban club.

2. The clubs will not be able to prevent players from playing in a higher level of competition (Test, Super, 3T etc).

To believe otherwise is a fantasy...

Contract law is not fantasy. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a club (Balmain springs to mind) could put a lot of money into the hands of a particular player whose contract stipulates that he must play for Balmain.

It is unlikely, but it is not impossible.

 

[Done that]

Contract law is not fantasy. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a club (Balmain springs to mind) could put a lot of money into the hands of a particular player whose contract stipulates that he must play for Balmain.

It is unlikely, but it is not impossible.

Exactly.
I know of large amounts (cash)paid by clubs to Shute Shield players, as recently as 2 weeks ago.
Also , what's rent free accommodation for a house in Sydney worth these days?

 

[wamberal]

Bond VC is rugby mad allegedly. Hence Bond taking on Breakers. Unless they were coming to the table, I wouldn't look to place a team there. Even then I would be cautious.

This is said as somebody who is Gold Coast grown, Bond alumni

There was a story a couple of days ago that Bond is retrenching staff, 100 jobs to go.

I don't think there is much chance of a Goldie team, but, who knows? Stranger things have happened.

I could imagine the right games drawing far more than a thousand spectators, Robina is very accessible, including from Northern NSW - it's a bit over an hour from Ballina, or Lismore.

 

[Quick Hands]

It would of course depend on what the terms of these contracts are. I would have thought that it's not possible to have conflicting contracts running concurrently i.e. club and super 15, giving each entity exclusive use of the player's (employee's) services.

At the end of the day, like all employees, players have a choice as to what, if any, contracts they sign. If they sign something with a Shute Shield club, giving that club first rights to his services, that club would be able in theory to prevent the player playing tests, super and 3T. Is it seriously suggested that such contracts are in existance? If so, I'd suggest that the players concerned are either happy to play no higher than club rugby or are very poorly advised.

No-one has corrected me on this yet, but as I understand the model, test and super players will not play club rugby at all. They will play super rugby until the tests start, then those selected for the Wallabies will play in the tests and the rest of the super players will play 3T. There's no window for club rugby, except perhaps a player returning from a long injury break. The role of clubs will be reduced under this model to grass roots development and playing Shute Shield, once players reach elite level, the clubs won't see them. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just how I understand the new model.

 

[Bruce Ross]

bond just announced their latest scholarship which is for ruggers and includes a years mentorship with John Eales, also fairly sure a while ago they were made the "official" tertiary educator for australian rugby or some weird stuff like that.

Weird stuff indeed, RF. I was sceptical about this until I read:

02 May 2013

Australian Rugby Union and Bond University today announced a new four-year partnership that will see the Gold Coast-based University become the Official Education Partner of the Qantas Wallabies.

I can think of a couple of other universities that have filled the role of "unofficial" tertiary educators for Australian rugby in recent years. Nice to know that those contributions have been appreciated.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Official <insert service name> Partner of the Wallabies doesn't necessarily mean too much does it?

Plenty of high profile Wallabies (now ex-Wallabies) choose not to fly with QANTAS. Consider the case of one JO'C and "off duty" travel to Bali.

Do all Wallabies wear <insert gear manufacturer> equipment?

However the alignment of Bond with Wobs seems to be a bit of an interesting way to reward Uni of Qld and Sydney Uni for their contribution to the Aust Rugby, however most would readily admit that it is Sydney Uni Alumni and students (and the individual colleges at Sydney Uni) that have made the contribution to Aust Rugby and not the University itself in an official capacity.

Any perceived "special treatment" for Sydney Uni players has been provided by connections of the SU Rugby club (mentoring, tutoring etc) rather than from the University itself. I'd anticipate it is an identical situation at Uni of Qld as well.

Most Uni haters would claim that Sydney Uni Rugby is subsidised by the Uni (public purse), and that the players get some form of special consideration, reduced entry criteria, scholarships etc from the Uni.

This perception seems to be countered by those associated with Uni Rugby.

 

[I like to watch]

I assume you are referring to Sydney Uni Bruce?
I thought the consistent theme from Uni supporters was, that the University provided zero assistance to the Rugby club?

 

[happyjack]

Players in Australia sign standard contracts with the ARU based on the CBA. These contracts prevent the player having another contract unless it is a) approved by the employer, and b) if it is a Rugby contract (as against other pursuits), it has to be registered with and approved by the ARU. This is further regulated by the IRB regulations which allows controlling unions to dictate that the game in that competition jurisdiction is amateur. Hence the IRFU gas just moved in this direction and the QRU (and possibly the NSWRU) have indicated this will be the case in 2014.
The competition model is such that professional players will only play club/Premier Rugby during the SXV/Premier window so the player would need to be on a bye, recovering from injury or poor form.
Every professional sports competition in Australia relies on underwriting from media/tv. Having this in place then the individual teams are busy selling tickets/membership, sponsorship etc. and even then most are making a loss.
Clubs like Tuggeranong, Sunnybank and Sydney Uni probably have enough money to sustain initial investments in a NRC but they would struggle to sustain the losses long term.
The model offers them no equity in the competition, no direct say in governance and subsequently strategy and management, no tenure of players, and a number of potential conditions that mitigate their strength in the game to ensure the weakest performers in clubland are not threatened.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I assume you are referring to Sydney Uni Bruce?
I thought the consistent theme from Uni supporters was, that the University provided zero assistance to the Rugby club?

I was referring to the University of Queensland and the University of Sydney, Iltw. Over the years clubs representing those two universities have provided many players to the Wallabies and to the Super franchises.
.

 

[Slim 293]

Players in Australia sign standard contracts with the ARU based on the CBA. These contracts prevent the player having another contract unless it is a) approved by the employer, and b) if it is a Rugby contract (as against other pursuits), it has to be registered with and approved by the ARU.

Precisely, which is why the scenarios mentioned above are pure fantasy.........

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'd say it's extremely likely that Bond and the ARU's alignment is purely commercial. i.e. Another Sponsorship agreement.

 

[swingpass]

the University of Melbourne, as distinct from the MURFC (although in a co-operative and hopefully mutually beneficial fashion) were sponsors of the the original ARC Rebels and continue as sponsors of the Super franchise.