2013 S15 South Africa Conference

[REDinCPT]

Siya Kolisi and Duane Vermeulen backed up by Micheal Rhodes, Nizaam Carr, Rynhardt Elstadt and Deon Fourie.

I must say I am pretty happy with that.

so does this mean that burger will play as a blind side or will the stormers play 2 fetchers?

 

[Sidbarret]

All three starters are "industrious", so I don't think it will matter who plays open, blind etc.
Vermeulen is the best on the ground, Burger is the best carrier in the open and Kolisi tackles like, well, Burger.

Due to his seniority, I think Burger will pack down on the openside, but the roles will be pretty fluid.

 

[Blue]

Siya Kolisi and Duane Vermeulen backed up by Micheal Rhodes, Nizaam Carr, Rynhardt Elstadt and Deon Fourie.

I must say I am pretty happy with that.

Hell of a back row that.

Will be interesting to see what shape Schulk will be in. Bloody long layoff.

 

[SuperGrover]

Stormers injury update

It seems their injuries are forcing them to look outside the squad for a hooker or two.

I hope the recoveries of Leibenberg and Ntubeni are quick, because Deon Fourie played alot of last season in the back-row and hooker is one of those specialised positions that are especially difficult to replace at short notice and their failings can be a large determinant in a team's performance.

see http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3824_8391838,00.html

 

[REDinCPT]

All three starters are "industrious", so I don't think it will matter who plays open, blind etc.
Vermeulen is the best on the ground, Burger is the best carrier in the open and Kolisi tackles like, well, Burger.

Due to his seniority, I think Burger will pack down on the openside, but the roles will be pretty fluid.

i'm a little unconvinced by the balance of burger, kolisi and vermeulen in the back row for the stormers as i think they will struggle for turnover ball. following on from last year's curry cup form, i'd be tempted to go with deon fourie in the back row as the fetcher and i think he would speed up the stormers game a fair bit, although i doubt it will happen with stormers' current injury issues at hooker.

there is plenty of talk following the stormers picking jantjies and taute that they will be scoring a lot more tries this year but they will struggle to do so without turnover ball.

 

[REDinCPT]

news on the radio this morning that morne steyn is leaving the bulls at the end of the season but there is no news on where he is heading, although it was said that he had discussed his future with henneke meyer.

 

[PaarlBok]

i'm a little unconvinced by the balance of burger, kolisi and vermeulen in the back row for the stormers as i think they will struggle for turnover ball. following on from last year's curry cup form, i'd be tempted to go with deon fourie in the back row as the fetcher and i think he would speed up the stormers game a fair bit, although i doubt it will happen with stormers' current injury issues at hooker.

there is plenty of talk following the stormers picking jantjies and taute that they will be scoring a lot more tries this year but they will struggle to do so without turnover ball.

Deon will be perfect in 2 with that combo. He can play the Battleship role in the team. Myself rate him much higher then a year ago. He had a massive CC season and a much improve player.

 

[PaarlBok]

news on the radio this morning that morne steyn is leaving the bulls at the end of the season but there is no news on where he is heading, although it was said that he had discussed his future with henneke meyer.

Check the name Handre Pollard, expect him to apply the pressure on Steyn. In fact the rise of Lambie/Jantjies/Goosen/Pollard will be the future of Springbok rugby. Exciting times after we struggled since Lem to get a decent 10.

 

[Sidbarret]

i'm a little unconvinced by the balance of burger, kolisi and vermeulen in the back row for the stormers as i think they will struggle for turnover ball. following on from last year's curry cup form, i'd be tempted to go with deon fourie in the back row as the fetcher and i think he would speed up the stormers game a fair bit, although i doubt it will happen with stormers' current injury issues at hooker.

there is plenty of talk following the stormers picking jantjies and taute that they will be scoring a lot more tries this year but they will struggle to do so without turnover ball.

The Kolisi, Burger, Vermeulen loose trio might be a little unconventional, but think they will cope very well. Vermeulen is excellent over the ball in a Pocock-impossible-to-shift kinda way. Burger and Kolisi are both really quick and get through a mountain of work.

I am looking forward to seeing how Kolisi develops over the next season or two (he's only 21). In 2011 he starred in the CC as Keegan Daniel/Hooper kind of loose ball carrier with questions regarding his defence. In 2012 he became a Kaino-esque tackling monster.

In perfect world he will have spent the off season working on pilfering. And he is in the right environment to do it too, Francios Louw and Deon Fourie developed excellent pilfering skills at the Stormers. If he masters the art then the sky is limit.

 

[Sidbarret]

news on the radio this morning that morne steyn is leaving the bulls at the end of the season but there is no news on where he is heading, although it was said that he had discussed his future with henneke meyer.

He's been linked with a move to France (Bayone I think) for a couple of weeks now.

Would be interesting to know how hard the bulls fought to keep him. At 27/28 and injury free one would think he still has 5 or 6 years left and could easily have pushed through to 2015. In theory the bulls should have a bit of money lying about having lost big salary players Matfield, Botha, Rossouw, Steenkamp, Gary Botha and Fourie Du Preez over the last couple of seasons. On the flip side they haven't had home play-off game in the Super Rugby or CC in about three years and their ticket sales appear to be down.

The bulls have thrown some serious money at juniors (Jan Serfontein and Dries Van Rensburg signed record deals for juniors in 2011 rumoured to be R1,5mil a year), but are yet to see a return on their investment. In fact losing CJ Stander and Gert-Jan van der Velze (both former SA u20 captains) show that Bulls are having trouble moving junior stars into the first team.

 

[PaarlBok]

He's been linked with a move to France (Bayone I think) for a couple of weeks now.

Would be interesting to know how hard the bulls fought to keep him. At 27/28 and injury free one would think he still has 5 or 6 years left and could easily have pushed through to 2015. In theory the bulls should have a bit of money lying about having lost big salary players Matfield, Botha, Rossouw, Steenkamp, Gary Botha and Fourie Du Preez over the last couple of seasons. On the flip side they haven't had home play-off game in the Super Rugby or CC in about three years and their ticket sales appear to be down.

The bulls have thrown some serious money at juniors (Jan Serfontein and Dries Van Rensburg signed record deals for juniors in 2011 rumoured to be R1,5mil a year), but are yet to see a return on their investment. In fact losing CJ Stander and Gert-Jan van der Velze (both former SA u20 captains) show that Bulls are having trouble moving junior stars into the first team.

The Brutes 2012 schoolboy shopping list:
NAME SURNAME POS SCHOOL REG 2012 HIGH 2013 TEAM
Nicolaas Jv Rensburg Lock Affies BUL SA Schools Bulls
Marcus Kleinbooi Wing Affies BUL Craven Week Bulls
Pierre Schoeman Prop Affies BUL SA Schools Bulls
Heinrich Viljoen L/Fwd Affies BUL SA Schools Bulls
Justin Basson Lock Boland Landbou WP Academy Week Bulls
Arno van Wyk Hooker Boland Landbou WP Academy Week Bulls
George-Lee Erasmus S/Half Centurion BUL Craven Week Bulls
Jaco Hayward F/Back Centurion BUL Craven Week Bulls
Johan Ras Lock Centurion BUL Craven Week Bulls
Dayan vd Westhuizen Prop Centurion BUL SA Schools Bulls
Wilco Louw Prop Drostdy BOL SA Schools Bulls
Johan Bannink Prop Garsfontein BUL Craven Week Bulls
Carel Swart L/Fwd Glenwood KZN Craven Week Bulls
Corniel Els Hooker Grey College FS Craven Week Bulls
Kobus Wolmarans S/Half HTS Middelburg PUM Craven Week Bulls
Daniel Kriel Centre Maritzburg Coll KZN 1st Team Bulls
Jesse Kriel F/Back Maritzburg Coll KZN SA Schools Bulls
Reegan Smith L/Fwd Maritzburg Coll KZN 1st Team Bulls
Bryce Nicholas-Deh Wing Michaelhouse KZN 1st Team Bulls
Chris Massyn L/Fwd Monnas LIO Craven Week Bulls
Tiaan van Dijk Centre Nelspruit PUM 1st Team Bulls
Piet-Louw Strauss Prop Oakdale SWD Craven Week Bulls
Ganfried May F/Back Oudtshoorn SWD Craven Week Bulls
Corne Cooper L/Fwd Paarl Gim WP Craven Week Bulls
Handré Pollard F/Half Paarl Gim WP SA Schools Bulls
Christiaan Prinsloo Hooker Port Natal KZN 1st Team Bulls
JP Smith S/Half Queens BOR 1st Team Bulls
Josh Stander F/Half Queens BOR 1st Team Bulls
Leighton van Wyk Centre SACS WP Academy Week Bulls
Bobby de Wee Lock Southdowns BUL Craven Week Bulls
Caswell Khoza Wing Southdowns BUL Craven Week Bulls
Rohan Jv Rensburg Centre Waterkloof BUL SA Schools Bulls
Nqoba Mxoli Prop Westville KZN 1st Team Bulls

 

[PaarlBok]

WP
Lihlelix Xoli F/Back Kingswood EP EP Kings u19 UCT Trojans
Robert Anderson F/Half Michaelhouse KZN Craven Week UCT Trojans
Justin Moberly Lock Michaelhouse KZN Craven Week UCT Trojans
Dean Stephen Centre Michaelhouse KZN 1st Team UCT Trojans
Msizi Zondi Prop Westville KZN Craven Week UCT Trojans
Ryno Eksteen F/Half Affies BUL SA Schools WP
Steven Meiring L/Fwd Affies BUL Craven Week WP
Pieter Jordaan F/Half Grey College FS Craven Week WP
Wesley Adonis Prop Paarl BH WP Craven Week WP
Sebastian Ferreira Lock Paarl BH WP Craven Week WP
Liam Hendricks Prop Paarl BH WP Craven Week WP
Pieter Schoonraad S/Half Paarl BH WP Craven Week WP
Dalen Goliath Wing Paul Roos WP Craven Week WP
Ramone Samuel L/Fwd Paul Roos WP Craven Week WP
Chad Solomon Hooker Paul Roos WP SA Schools WP
Jan Uys Lock Paul Roos WP Academy Week WP
Jason Worral F/Back Paul Roos WP Craven Week WP
Josh Moon L/Fwd Michaelhouse KZN Craven Week WP Institute
Michael Mvelase Centre Michaelhouse KZN Craven Week WP Institute

Sharks
Bart le Roux Prop Framesby EP Craven Week Sharks
Marne Coetzee Prop Glenwood KZN Sharks u19 Sharks
Dylan Coulson Wing Glenwood KZN KZN u18 Sharks
Unathi Makasi F/Back Glenwood KZN Academy Week Sharks
Nkululeko Marwana Centre Glenwood KZN Craven Week Sharks
Sanele Pina Hooker Glenwood KZN Academy Week Sharks
Matthew Worral-Clare Prop Glenwood KZN 1st Team Sharks
Chris de Beer Hooker Hilton KZN Academy Week Sharks
Gideon Koegelenberg Lock Hugenote BOL SA Schools Sharks
Sandile Kubeka Centre Kearsney KZN SA Schools Sharks
Andre Esterhuizen Centre Klerksdorp LEO Craven Week Sharks
Stefan van Schalkwyk Prop Oakdale SWD Craven Week Sharks
Jean-Luc du Plessis F/Half Paarl BH WP Academy Week Sharks
Neil Maritz Centre Paarl BH WP 1st Team Sharks

 

[Sidbarret]

The Brutes 2012 schoolboy shopping list:
NAME SURNAME POS SCHOOL REG 2012 HIGH 2013 TEAM

<33 random names>

Talk about opening up both barrels with a shot gun.

So what will these be doing for the next couple of years, because they can't all be playing u/19 CC. I guess most of the guys would farmed out to TUKS and TUTS (possibly PUKKE).

Will these guys really get the attention and game time they need to develop? Seems to be an awful amount of money to spend considering how few of their senior side actually came through the junior system.

 

[PaarlBok]

Talk about opening up both barrels with a shot gun.

So what will these be doing for the next couple of years, because they can't all be playing u/19 CC. I guess most of the guys would farmed out to TUKS and TUTS (possibly PUKKE).

Will these guys really get the attention and game time they need to develop? Seems to be an awful amount of money to spend considering how few of their senior side actually came through the junior system.

If you look at the positions you'll find backups aswell. They have such a good u21 CC side in 2012, most of them will end up playing koshuis rugby or sniffing cow milk powder over a year and it isnt just random names, most Craven Week and nearly the SA Schools players.

Nicolaas Jv Rensburg Lock Affies BUL SA Schools Bulls
Pierre Schoeman Prop Affies BUL SA Schools Bulls
Heinrich Viljoen L/Fwd Affies BUL SA Schools Bulls
Dayan vd Westhuizen Prop Centurion BUL SA Schools Bulls
Wilco Louw Prop Drostdy BOL SA Schools Bulls
Jesse Kriel F/Back Maritzburg Coll KZN SA Schools Bulls
Handré Pollard F/Half Paarl Gim WP SA Schools Bulls
Rohan Jv Rensburg Centre Waterkloof BUL SA Schools Bulls

 

[Sidbarret]

The more I think about it the more I wonder about the this policy of signing all these school kids en masse.

I wonder what sort of contracts these are. I can understand that guys like Pollard and Janse Van Rensburg will be full time pros from next year as they are expected to feature in the Vodacom Cup and possibly in the CC, but most of the rest will need a couple of years before they break into the senior ranks. I hope these guys are enrolled at university (or trade school for the props), encouraged to find clubs where they can play at the top level while coming in for three or four training sessions a week with the pro coaches.

Western Province has done very well over the last couple of seasons recruiting from the varsity cup and club rugby (De Allende, Etzebeth, Du Jong and Brache). Another thing they have done well is to avoid getting drawn into a bidding war over players. It was disappointing to lose Sadie and especially JJ Engelbrecht to the bulls, but every player has fair market value and there in no point paying guy big bucks to sit on the bench.

 

[Blue]

He's been linked with a move to France (Bayone I think) for a couple of weeks now.

Stade.

On the subject I have little faith in the Bulls selection and contracting process.

They lose the guys you mention and then make a big hoo hah that they resigned, wait for it, Greyling and Kruger. Two of the worst props in SA. Like it's some fucking scoop.

It's broken and looks more broken by the minute.

To lose CJ Stander was criminal.

 

[Blue]

The more I think about it the more I wonder about the this policy of signing all these school kids en masse.

I wonder what sort of contracts these are. I can understand that guys like Pollard and Janse Van Rensburg will be full time pros from next year as they are expected to feature in the Vodacom Cup and possibly in the CC, but most of the rest will need a couple of years before they break into the senior ranks. I hope these guys are enrolled at university (or trade school for the props), encouraged to find clubs where they can play at the top level while coming in for three or four training sessions a week with the pro coaches.

Western Province has done very well over the last couple of seasons recruiting from the varsity cup and club rugby (De Allende, Etzebeth, Du Jong and Brache). Another thing they have done well is to avoid getting drawn into a bidding war over players. It was disappointing to lose Sadie and especially JJ Engelbrecht to the bulls, but every player has fair market value and there in no point paying guy big bucks to sit on the bench.

The recruitment of youngsters is nothing new. It gives them a bit of money, access to training and conditioning, but not much more.

 

[Sidbarret]

Stade.

On the subject I have little faith in the Bulls selection and contracting process.

They lose the guys you mention and then make a big hoo hah that they resigned, wait for it, Greyling and Kruger. Two of the worst props in SA. Like it's some fucking scoop.

It's broken and looks more broken by the minute.

To lose CJ Stander was criminal.

One has to wonder how long it will be before the agents and the more clued up dads cotton on to this.

WP won a CC with a team that could have basically played in the u21s, the sharks sniped some really good youngsters, even the cheetahs have consolidated their resources on core of fantastic players. All the while the Bulls have been going after the biggest names in schoolboy rugby and have very little to show for it.

CJ Stander is a fantastic example. earmarked to be bok captain from a young age, now probably going to play for Ireland. I would hazard a guess that if he signed for any other Super Rugby team out of high school, he would still be in SA and probably be a better player.


ps. Greyling has his faults, but I reckon he has something to add at international level even. If he can learn to play rugby instead of thugby I can see him going far. Kruger on the other hand is massive disappointment. In 2009 I thought he would be great player, but he has done nothing since and have gone backwards if anything.

 

[Blue]

Pity Greyling can't scrum for shit.

 

[PaarlBok]

Good to see the Cheetahs holding on some Grey Bloem stock
Nico Lee Centre Affies BUL Academy Week Free State
Louis Venter S/Half Affies BUL Academy Week Free State
Granville Adams F/Back Diamantveld GW Craven Week Free State
Zee Mkhabela S/Half Glenwood KZN Craven Week Free State
Sihle Ngxabi Lock Glenwood KZN Craven Week Free State
Warren Potgieter F/Half Glenwood KZN Academy Week Free State
Henco Greyling L/Fwd Grey College FS Free State u19 Free State
Stefan Jv Rensburg Centre Grey College FS Craven Week Free State
Markus Odendaal Hooker Grey College FS Academy Week Free State
Edward Schmidt L/Fwd Grey College FS Craven Week Free State
Awie Thompson Lock Grey College FS Craven Week Free State
Francois van Biljon F/Half Kroonstad (R/S) GRI Craven Week Free State
Vincent Maruping Lock Louis Botha FS Free State u19 Free State
Andre Venter Lock Monument LIO 1st Team Free State
Gilbert Chalmers Lock Noord-Kaap GW Craven Week Free State
Marthinus Oosthuizen Prop Outeniqua SWD Craven Week Free State
Corne Stemmet Prop Paul Roos WP 1st Team Free State