2012R14 The battle of the TAHS (Chee vs Wara)@ Osfontein.

[RedsHappy]

meh, what has happened to the Tahs defence? soft tries again

lack of structure in attack, lack of effort to support the ball carrier, lack of technique from the ball carrier.

meh

fp, who is defense coach now at the Tahs? Surely not Foley himself? You're absolutely right: the Tahs' historically excellent defense has been slipping all year.

The model a la Deans and backs where a head coach takes upon himself a specialist coach's role (on the grounds that he knows all about it) usually ends in neither job being done optimally, or worse.

 

[Bardon]

Only things left for the Tahs to play for this season is finishing top of the also rans (10th on the ladder) and finishing 3rd in the Aus conference. It's worrying that cracks are beginning to appear in good aspects of the Tahs play such as their defence. Maybe the international window will give people at the Tahs time to reflect and get a head start on what needs to be fixed for next season.

 

[Richo]

Looking for silver linings, I would say that we saw some of what the Tahs backs can achieve when given width and good ball. I thought the whole back line looked much better in attack at times and certainly played with a lot more abandon. The best teams are able to balance dynamic and creative back line play with sensible decision-making and good ball security. It's good to see the Tahs showing a lot more of the first part of the equation since. The second comes down to leadership, coaching and cohesion.

 

[topo]

fp, who is defense coach now at the Tahs? Surely not Foley himself?

Greg Mumm is defence coach.

 

[wamberal]

Bring in a few more Uni players and coaches. That'll fix 'em.

 

[cyclopath]

Bring in a few more Uni players and coaches. That'll fix 'em.

I haven't heard that before.

 

[RedsHappy]

Greg Mumm is defence coach.

How good a job do you think he's doing?

 

[Gnostic]

Some comments having just watched the game :-

1. The first 15 minutes and last 10 minutes of the first half were the best the Tahs have played all year in terms of execution in attack. By this I mean they kicked well from hand. They ran onto passes and supported the ball acrrier allowing a few offloads. They passed accurately in front of the ball carrier in a manner that allowed them to continue their momentum. Excellent. It was what I have been waiting for and posting about for the better part of three years. So what happened to the other 15 min of the first half and the second forty? In those periods we saw again the aimless kicks and players fell back into habits of failing to support, passes went all over the shop......... It is so disheartening as a Tahs support that you can see that when a long ball is fielded just out of the 22 that it will be kicked and always to the 5 metre line of the opposition 22. The set of the players is predictable and the opposition invariably reads it. How many of the Tahs kicks in this regard were fielded by opponents positioned exactly for this tactic.
2. Defence - they defended very well for long periods. They then went to sleep here and there and the Cheetahs scored a couple of very soft tries, or more accurately described as good tries initiated by very soft line breaks.

The issues:-
1. Where was this execution all year? The same place it has been every year, they wait until all is almost lost before dragging out this desperate game that breathes hope into the fans.
2. As for the defensive issues, I have to ask the question, are the Tahs fit? I know this was at altitude but it seems to me that they fall away regularly throughout matches. Their appliacation is not consistent within the match. The only reason I can come up with for that is fatigue. Perhaps this point would be better discussed with input from Bruce Ross. It is interesting that the easy metres the Tahs made in the first half totally disappeared in the second. Yes the Cheetahs tightened their defence somewhat but at the same time the Tahs forwards were totally unable to break the tackles they did in the first 40 and indeed started to get held up in mauls. Again, fatigue?
3. Communication & Leadership - I am assuming that Berrick was Captain went Fatcat was replaced. On that final play he was obviously set up for a drop goal and was screaming for the ball. Why did it not come? Is this another aspect impacted by fatigued minds? In this aspect the decision to select Elsom as Captain and the extended "leadership group" at the start of the year does play a part. How many of that "Leadership Group" were on the paddock last night? Barnes & Fatcat. So under fatigue without strong leadership to drive and guide the Tahs fall back to their base play (which is inaccurate and limited) and they lose games. This is a core failure of the coaching group, not just this year but over successive years.

The execution in that 25 minute period I discussed showed that the players have the skills when they are applied, what we don't have is the consistency in application, intensity in attack and defence on a consistent basis.

This was without doubt the best performance that the Tahs have produced this season IMO, as I said in terms of execution, whether that saves Foley though I do not know, seems to be a few carrion birds circling in anticipation of a kill.

 

[TheBigDog]

I only caught the 2nd half of the game so won't make too many comments here but to be honest there was one moment when I thought it was all over redrover for the Waratahs.

Willie la Roux was scoring try #2 and was running around to the posts, Drew Mitchell was JOGGING across to cut him off. I realise it was Mitchells first game back and was at altitude, he was probably stuffed but it looked like he didn't give a damn about making the conversion harder until la Roux was nearly under the sticks, at which stage he sped up a little, which IMO was a mistake because if he doesn't kick it, the Tahs are still in the lead. Can't remember exactly but that was like with 20min to go. Someone mentioned earlier that the Tahs have looked unfit and struggled to finish games and from that moment, its exactly what I saw. The Cheetahs were quicker to the ball and hit harder in defence and the Tahs just looked buggered. That last maul turnover from Palu was good defence from the Cheetahs but also laziness on Palu's behalf as his body height was far too high.

Its also hard to win when the replacements who come on contribute to several of the turnovers e.g. Carter being held up in a maul, Lopeti Timani losing the ball several times and John Algulia (however you spell it) getting done for ruck infringements.

On a side note, how many times was TPN laying face first on the ground after a tackle in this game? I think I saw twice in the 2nd half. So dangerous and stupid. The bloke will be seriously hurt soon.

 

[The Red Baron]

I saw Taf on the ground numerous occasions also. He leads with the wrong shoulder everytime. It looks like that he leads with his left shoulder. When he hits someone, instead of his head being on the outside, it is on the inside. As he attempts to cut down the attacker, invariably the tackled player will fall down straight onto Taf's head. At this level, why his technique has not been adjusted is beyond me. Teach him to hit on both sides, so then his head will always be on the outside of the tackled player.

 

[Ash]

Lopeti Timani was caught last, not Palu. He seems to be a serial offender with getting turned over currently. I don't think he is up to Super standard quite yet. He might yet be a late developer like his brother though.

It boggles my mind that Drew Mitchell did not return through club football. First game back (after hardly any games in a freaking year) and it's at altitude in the Republic. To repeat, the mind just boggles.

It was almost as if the Tahs decided to play not to lose in the second half. They decided to return to a kicking based game and it sent them backwards quickly.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This was without doubt the worst game of rugby I have seen for at least a day. What a shocker. The Cheetahs defence is appalling - so bad it made the Tahs look like they know what they're doing: and by christ almighyt they have no idea what theyre doing.
Please Tahs management dont tell us about any fantastic ensemble tries or great sweeping runs: this was crap. The 2 worst teams in the comp and we couldnt put them away.
It may not be the end of the world but you can see it from here.

I saw Taf on the ground numerous occasions also. He leads with the wrong shoulder everytime. It looks like that he leads with his left shoulder. When he hits someone, instead of his head being on the outside, it is on the inside. As he attempts to cut down the attacker, invariably the tackled player will fall down straight onto Taf's head. At this level, why his technique has not been adjusted is beyond me. Teach him to hit on both sides, so then his head will always be on the outside of the tackled player.

What about the abysmal effort in shallow cover off the back of the lineout somewhere slightly shy of 70 minutes in? The guy is a joke. How do you get that far and not have the first clue about where to put your head? Lucky he wasnt at Gallipoli.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Looking for silver linings, I would say that we saw some of what the Tahs backs can achieve when given width and good ball. I thought the whole back line looked much better in attack at times and certainly played with a lot more abandon. The best teams are able to balance dynamic and creative back line play with sensible decision-making and good ball security. It's good to see the Tahs showing a lot more of the first part of the equation since. The second comes down to leadership, coaching and cohesion.

Tahs supporters need to stop looking for silver linings and start worrying about the frigging clouds

 

[Badger]

Tahs supporters need to stop looking for silver linings and start worrying about the frigging clouds

Silver linings? Clouds? It's like a nasty storm front has swept in with only brief periods of respite.

 

[Brisbok]

This was without doubt the worst game of rugby I have seen for at least a day. What a shocker. The Cheetahs defence is appalling - so bad it made the Tahs look like they know what they're doing: and by christ almighyt they have no idea what theyre doing.
Please Tahs management dont tell us about any fantastic ensemble tries or great sweeping runs: this was crap. The 2 worst teams in the comp and we couldnt put them away.
It may not be the end of the world but you can see it from here.

The two worst teams in the comp? How do you figure that one out? Go have a look at the table and it might tell you differently. Letting your emotions get in the way of your judgement a little?

 

[Richo]

Tahs supporters need to stop looking for silver linings and start worrying about the frigging clouds

Ah, yes, the reflexive negativity. Always refreshing. Look, obviously it sucks to lose again and there were many disappointing elements of the match. But if you watched that game without seeing some positive signs then there's no hope that you'll ever enjoy watching the Waratahs play. Could it be that you prefer them to suck?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The two worst teams in the comp? How do you figure that one out? Go have a look at the table and it might tell you differently. Letting your emotions get in the way of your judgement a little?

I've seen none worse this seasonthan I saw in this game. That is obviously a subjective impression.
The draw and the length of the season means that the table is an unreliable guide.
At times it looked like a very bad game of touch.
The cheetahs seem to have no defensive system but, worse still, they don't even defend effectively one out.
It is a damning indictment of a team that they can lose and yet be flattered by the result:that fits the tahs.
Can anyone tell me why, if he's not good enough to start the game, carter was brought on when they were still 1 point behind? Or is that a silver lining I missed?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Brisbok]

I've seen none worse this seasonthan I saw in this game. That is obviously a subjective impression.
The draw and the length of the season means that the table is an unreliable guide.
At times it looked like a very bad game of touch.
The cheetahs seem to have no defensive system but, worse still, they don't even defend effectively one out.
It is a damning indictment of a team that they can lose and yet be flattered by the result:that fits the tahs.
Can anyone tell me why, if he's not good enough to start the game, carter was brought on when they were still 1 point behind? Or is that a silver lining I missed?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Now there's some wisdom if ever I've seen some. The length of the season means the table is an unreliable guide. I guess that also means that the teams who finish on top of the table, shouldn't be considered the best because the length of the season means the table is an unreliable guide.

How do you propose that they rank teams in future? Position on the table say after 5 weeks? Not sure how the draw would end up working in that situation. That also makes a farce of other competitions like the AFL, NRL, English Premier League etc. that go on longer than Super Rugby. The seasons are just too long!

Clearly the Cheetahs and Tahs have had the best draw this year and that's the only reason they are currently ranked higher than teams like the Lions, Blues, Force and Rebels.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm convinced that Inside Shoulder is Greg Growden.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Now there's some wisdom if ever I've seen some. The length of the season means the table is an unreliable guide. I guess that also means that the teams who finish on top of the table, shouldn't be considered the best because the length of the season means the table is an unreliable guide.

How do you propose that they rank teams in future? Position on the table say after 5 weeks? Not sure how the draw would end up working in that situation. That also makes a farce of other competitions like the AFL, NRL, English Premier League etc. that go on longer than Super Rugby. The seasons are just too long!

Clearly the Cheetahs and Tahs have had the best draw this year and that's the only reason they are currently ranked higher than teams like the Lions, Blues, Force and Rebels.

Im not surprised the concept that you could be the 2 worst teams as the result of what they displayed without being on the bottom of the table is beyond you. such a conclusion involves an exercise in judgment.
I said nothing about rankings.
The relevance of the draw is knowing who played whom where and when, in what sequence: on your analysis you don't even need to play any more game you can just decide who wins the comp by where they are on the table.