2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[TOCC]

105kg v 85kg is men v boys. Your argument would be alright if the opposition didn't have guys that are capable of doing all that our guys are capable of doing AND are 20kg heavier.

But hey, you want to roll with the approach that we never won shit with, good for you.

All of Giteau, Barnes (two players we've used extensively as "ball-players" at 12 in the past with zero success when it mattered) and O'Connor (someone that many people want at 12 now, it seems) are sub-90kg according to wikipedia. The same (unreliable, yes) source lists the recent 12s of other top 5 teams as averaging >105.

O'Connor and Barnes are both listed as been heavier then 85kg... no current Wallaby is under 87kg... semantics but still relevant if we are going to be comparing figures

 

[cyclopath]

Alternative viewpoints = picking fights. Got it.

Mate, alternative viewpoints are fine. You've taken a mortgage on having one to every post just about, and it reads like trolling for a fight, not making a cogent argument.
Tone it down, your posts are overly aggressive and contrary for the sake of it.

 

[Scotty]

We don't have one that I'm aware of. But that's not a good reason to ditch McCabe for someone even smaller because they're "ball players".

How many times has Smith worn 12 for New Zealand?

I, unlike some here, view 13 and 12 as being different positions. I'd have no problem with JOC (James O'Connor) at 13 because he'd have some space out there. He has the best in-and-away on the team.

I suggested tapuai, who is actually a little heavier, but you have conveniently ignored that option.

You are also ignoring that our best combinations have had the 13 as the big crash baller - eg mortlock, Herbert.

As long as the centre are good defenders and one of them has good passing skills and both can run good lines I don't mind which is at 12. They can always swap for different plays.

I'd actually be happy for McCabe to take AACs spot as he runs as good lines but is less selfish.

 

[TOCC]

the figures don't matter, I've been told.

After looking at the most recent Rugby Championship lineups and relative statistics from Foxsports.com.au, i feel as though the issue isn't as big(excuse the pun) as you would suggest

Nonu: 106kg
Smith: 95kg

Hougaard: 92kg
F. Steyn: 100kg

McCabe: 94kg
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper): 97kg

Agulla: 87kg
Bosch: 90kg

 

[H...]

Mate, alternative viewpoints are fine. You've taken a mortgage on having one to every post just about, and it reads like trolling for a fight, not making a cogent argument.
Tone it down, your posts are overly aggressive and contrary for the sake of it.

delete me, would you?

 

[cyclopath]

delete me, would you?

Ah, no, you've deleted your own posts.
What is your problem with trying to be a little agreeable?

 

[H...]

Ah, no, you've deleted your own posts.
What is your problem with trying to be a little agreeable?

I'm asking you to delete me.

 

[TOCC]

I'm asking you to delete me.

 

[cyclopath]

I'm asking you to delete me.

If you insist.

 

[Scotty]

I'm asking you to delete me.

Is this a cry for help?

H - It is just a game. Be happy.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I'm asking you to delete me.

This is a good night. I get to make my second reference to Monty Python. This time its the Black Knight scene in The Holy Grail. "it's only a flesh wound"

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Harris runs hard but I did as he was not our long term answer.

I think an inside should be someone who is a medium between a 10 and a 13. JOC (James O'Connor) would be a our definitive answer if he was just a little taller alas we make do but I think the development of lealifano and tapuai is a good sign that we are building a nice stab,e of inside backs.

McCabe skill set I think would be a big advantage outside those crash balls a little wider could be dangerous ala mortlock.

Please don't use the weight of centres as an argument. The reds won the super 15 with a centre pairing at least 20 kilos heavy than their opponents. It's not about the size of the dog in the fight it's about the size of the fight in the dog........just ask Brian o'Driscoll

 

[Joe Blow]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) should stay at 13.
We need to find the right 12. McCabe is it for now but when Lilo, JOC (James O'Connor) and Taps are back on deck and continue to develop their respective games then one of them may be a better alternative.

 

[TOCC]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the best 13 we have in the country right now... Quade is currently the best 10..
I think McCabe suits the requirements of 12 as long as we have a playmaker in Beale or Barnes playing at 15.. Currently i prefer Barnes because his form is head and shoulders above Beale...

10. Quade
11.
12. McCabe
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14.
15. Barnes

Ioane picks himself and we need a speedster/finisher for the other wing.. Shipperly has shown enough to retain that role..

 

[TOCC]

I still hold out hope that Ioane can one day return to the 13 jersey, i don't think his skillset(handling) is conducive with that idea but jeez he could fill that role perfectly.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Diggers does seem to get bored out on the wing waiting for someone to pass it to him and goes hunting for work when that doesn't happen.

If he comes inside to 13, who are your 14/11 combo? Injuries have us stuffed.

 

[TOCC]

Thinking more of in the future as Digby's speed starts to drop or in the event of another injury... I think the balance is good currently..

Injuries havent left much to work with at the moment, but in the future i see Joe Tomane as a natural replacement for Digby.. His leg power and ability to break a tackle is just like Digby.. Hopefully it will be a competition between Shipperly, Ioane, Mitchell and Tomane in 2013... Further down the track we have CFS and Kingston..

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You really think he didn't catch a ball because of his ego?

I'd be interested in you explaining that train of thought!

my reasoning is this: if you look at it you will see that the ball bounces to a good height so there was nothing difficult like having to pick it up off his boots. He has plenty of time both to adjust his body to pick the ball up and until the argies arrive.
But he is so supremely confident of his gifts that he does not bend enough to get to the ball - his hands only make contact with the top 1/3 of the ball. This cannot be explained on the basis of a last minute change in the height or direction of the bounce.
He doesn't think he needs to do the basics cos he's better than that. He always has: see his performance in the junior world cup played in Ireland.
But that's just my feeling: it's an opinion, so there's no need for anyone to call me churlish or to otherwise personally attack me. I accept that the options for replacing him are limited to non-existent at the moment. The reason to have a debate about it now is to get people thinking that he is not a long term solution or to get him to wake up to himself.


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[Scotty]

my reasoning is this: if you look at it you will see that the ball bounces to a good height so there was nothing difficult like having to pick it up off his boots. He has plenty of time both to adjust his body to pick the ball up and until the argies arrive.
But he is so supremely confident of his gifts that he does not bend enough to get to the ball - his hands only make contact with the top 1/3 of the ball. This cannot be explained on the basis of a last minute change in the height or direction of the bounce.
He doesn't think he needs to do the basics cos he's better than that. He always has: see his performance in the junior world cup played in Ireland.
But that's just my feeling: it's an opinion, so there's no need for anyone to call me churlish or to otherwise personally attack me.


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Ironic since I would consider such an outrageous statement a personal attack on cooper.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ironic since I would consider such an outrageous statement a personal attack on cooper.

Instead of labelling my opinion as "outrageous" why dont you address the reasoning (which you asked for) and the reference to his performances in the past which, in my opinion, demonstrate a long term issue.