2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[cyclopath]

My main concern is our game plan is no where near up to beating the All Blacks. As to Argentina - I hope we play a with the same passion they did here because we are going to need it over there.

As I said, for Argentina, it was good enough.
The Bokke and the Pumas ran the ABs pretty hard without a complex plan, and elements were similar to what we did last night - aggressive at the breakdown, pretty quick pick and go, good defence and so on.
But I agree, we will need to be much more accurate, and take our chances if and when they come against the Bokke, and the ABs when next we meet them. In particular against the ABs we need a far better kicking execution - their counter is too deadly.
We saw from the AB - Bokke game that you have to get the points on offer.

 

[Scotty]

I don't get this. We did have a game plan. The forwards played pick and drive, and attacked the breakdown quite aggressively, we then tried to move it wider, but the execution of that part was variable. The play went too lateral as it went wide, not enough drawing and passing and the defence drifted us wide and snuffed the play often, but the general model was good. In the second half, runners were more direct and it worked better. Opportunities were created in the first half, but a couple came up just short.
I think we had a decent enough plan, especially for Argentina. I think aspects were not executed as accurately as they should have been. I think what Quade was often trying to do was fine, he just had an off night, especially in the first half.

Agree, we had more of a game plan in this game that any other game so far this year. We mostly had some pretty good structure. We even had a few planned backline moves - there was none of these vs Wales and the AB tests, so I wonder if it is Cooper that has actually been bringing some of these in?

 

[fatprop]

Where is Lachie Turner he should come in on the wing for Shipperley he's never let the Wallabies down. Unless they start Beale on the wing in SA.

I think Beale is starting to look fit again & if he finds form hopefully he works his way into the team for Bled 3 & Spring tour.

nah, Nic Cummins to slot in. I would have had him there before Ships. Great aggressive, fast, combative competitor and a wonderful defender

 

[Bowside]

I thought McCabe played well last night. At one point I saw him move into first receiver, and another time he through a pass one the run.

I still dont think he is our best option at inside centre. He looks like an outside back playing in the mid-field.

As others have said, our backline does not 'click'. When you look at last nights game, I though McCabe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Digby, Shipperly and Barnes all had reasonable games. But they problem is that the aforementioned players all seemed to play well in isolation but not so much as a team.

 

[H...]

I thought McCabe played well last night. At one point I saw him move into first receiver, and another time he through a pass one the run.

I still dont think he is our best option at inside centre. He looks like an outside back playing in the mid-field.

As others have said, our backline does not 'click'. When you look at last nights game, I though McCabe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Digby, Shipperly and Barnes all had reasonable games. But they problem is that the aforementioned players all seemed to play well in isolation but not so much as a team.

So who should be the 12?

 

[Penguin]

So because Berrick Barnes is not capable of running a deep alignment, deep alignments never work? Okay.

Not in test Rugby, no, not in the modern age anyway.

As I said watch the All Blacks & how flat they play. You can't play your flyhalf deeper & expect to get over the advantage line with defenses so dominant.

 

[Scotty]

I thought McCabe played well last night. At one point I saw him move into first receiver, and another time he through a pass one the run.

I still dont think he is our best option at inside centre. He looks like an outside back playing in the mid-field.

As others have said, our backline does not 'click'. When you look at last nights game, I though McCabe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Digby, Shipperly and Barnes all had reasonable games. But they problem is that the aforementioned players all seemed to play well in isolation but not so much as a team.

We really need a bloke in the back line that can offload the ball. At the moment we are relying on a couple of options:

- Cooper running to the line throwing the short pass to the man coming back on the angle (the most successful option)
- Passing wide to Ioane or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and hope they make a break

Imagine how much better we could be if one of those wide players could take it to the line and get the ball away in contact, or close to contact? How much more difficult is it for a defense to defend against a guy that can run and also set up players outside of him?

 

[Hawko]

So because Berrick Barnes is not capable of running a deep alignment, deep alignments never work? Okay.

Deep alignments only work when the other team has tackling deficiencies that allow you to make breaks through and around them. I didn't see any such deficiencies last night. If there are no tackling failures by the other team the breakdown occurs five metres or more behind the gain line. While the opposing flankers can run into the breakdown directly, your team's flankers have to run past the breakdown, turn and then enter through the gate. That's a recipe for disaster.

Deep alignments only work when there is penetration by centres and wingers due either to pace, footwork or sleight of hand. Anyone who imagines our backline has those qualities is seeing something that I certainly can't.

 

[H...]

We really need a bloke in the back line that can offload the ball. At the moment we are relying on a couple of options:

- Cooper running to the line throwing the short pass to the man coming back on the angle (the most successful option)
- Passing wide to Ioane or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and hope they make a break

Imagine how much better we could be if one of those wide players could take it to the line and get the ball away in contact, or close to contact? How much more difficult is it for a defense to defend against a guy that can run and also set up players outside of him?

You're a fantasist. We'd be much better off concentrating on ball retention and the rest of the basics than magical in-contact offloads. They throw enough speculators as it is.

Honestly, if we had a kicking game that kept play in the oppo half, no acts of utter idiocy, and a focus on running straight downfield, we'd be very hard to beat. Right now we have none of those things.

 

[H...]

Deep alignments only work when the other team has tackling deficiencies that allow you to make breaks through and around them. I didn't see any such deficiencies last night. If there are no tackling failures by the other team the breakdown occurs five metres or more behind the gain line. While the opposing flankers can run into the breakdown directly, your team's flankers have to run past the breakdown, turn and then enter through the gate. That's a recipe for disaster.

Deep alignments only work when there is penetration by centres and wingers due either to pace, footwork or sleight of hand. Anyone who imagines our backline has those qualities is seeing something that I certainly can't.

Forgive me for suggesting we try something different occasionally. I forgot that we're perfect at the moment.

 

[Penguin]

H.... We tried that with Barnes at ten this very year.... it didn't work then, it's not going to work now.

Hawko explained it much more succinctly than I and I couldn't agree with what he said more.

 

[Penguin]

Yep, top argument mate.... point well made.

 

[cyclopath]

Deep alignments only work when the other team has tackling deficiencies that allow you to make breaks through and around them. I didn't see any such deficiencies last night. If there are no tackling failures by the other team the breakdown occurs five metres or more behind the gain line. While the opposing flankers can run into the breakdown directly, your team's flankers have to run past the breakdown, turn and then enter through the gate. That's a recipe for disaster.

Deep alignments only work when there is penetration by centres and wingers due either to pace, footwork or sleight of hand. Anyone who imagines our backline has those qualities is seeing something that I certainly can't.

Yeah, I think the flatter line was OK, if the runners had been more direct, and the passing timed a bit better to put the man through a gap, and if it is played at pace from quicker recycles so defence is shuffling sideways rather than coming off the front foot. With slow, static ball, it won't work, but neither will being deep. I don't think the basic structure was that far off. Cooper is the best player to get that to work, I think. He was not at his best, but I really can't see anyone else screaming to be the man at the moment.

 

[H...]

Yep, top argument mate.. point well made.

Your argument is "it didn't work when the main playmaker was the guy that is now playing fullback and has previously played inside centre and is basically surviving on the strength of his goalkicking and therefore it won't work at all".

I never said we should switch our entire approach.

 

[Jiggles]

Watching the game again. It's the basic skills, and lack of structure that is killing me. Cooper had a few 'mare moments which are well documented but he was also pretty integral in all our line-breaks and attacking moments which were subsequently botched by others. He still got his runners moving more than Barnes did in the Wales series and his RC games at 10.

The Deans game plan is still based around a moment of individual brilliance rather than well constructed team play and we are surviving on it, only just, due to the rather crapness that is world rugby and opposition teams right now. Even the All Blacks are crap, all things considered, right now and are not a shade on the 2010 or 2011 versions of darkness.

 

[Penguin]

Your argument is "it didn't work when the main playmaker was the guy that is now playing fullback and has previously played inside centre and is basically surviving on the strength of his goalkicking and therefore it won't work at all".

I never said we should switch our entire approach.

And you're conveniently ignoring my pointing out that playing flat works very well for the A.B.s as well as points others have made far more succinctly than I can.
I'll leave ya to it!

 

[H...]

And you're conveniently ignoring my pointing out that playing flat works very well for the A.B.s as well as points others have made far more succinctly than I can.
I'll leave ya to it!

We can't emulate the ABs in any other aspect of the game either.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Even though QC (Quade Cooper) had a poor game last night, I'm not going to be too critical. He was trying stuff and attempting to hit some gaps wide of him. Unfortunately the other players weren't in the right position to take advantage it or his passes were ill directed. I could see what he was trying to and a couple of times it came off, like the pass to Sharpie where he got held up and the other for McCabe where he scored. Execution let him down, not a lack of game plan or thought.

We could have been well in front at half time had a couple of moments gone our way and I doubt it would have been close in the second half. As it was, we fell asleep early in the second 40 and the Argies scored twice. Schoolboy stuff a couple times in that period play.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

A reliable team can't be built around him?

Do you forget who won the super XV last year, and who got back on track and made it to the finals as part of his involvement this year? I'll give you a clue - they don't wear blue.

s15 is a different world - this is a test match thread

 

[ChargerWA]

I'm with Scotty, I wan't more offloads, especially from the forwards. They create doubt and confusion in the defence and give the backs some space to work through. Have a look how the AB's scored their first try last night. Without their offloading ability they would have possibly drawn with the Bokke.

I also like the fact that our forward pack have taken the ribbon from two of the most fancied forward packs in the world these last two weeks without the all conquering hero slayers (Palu, Horwill, Pocock). If our backs can find some combination and our forwards keep our nose to the grindstone we may actually surprise a few teams this year.

Having said that, I fully expect the forwards to not turn up to one of the next two games and undo all their good work. One hallmark of RD's tenure has been how consistently inconsistent we are.