2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[Inside Shoulder]

Cooper has a touch of arrogance ?....thank christ someone does in that wallaby team. They play like they aren't supposed to win half the time.

His arrogance is working well for him: dropped ball from nothing more than an arrogant conviction that he doesn't need to do the basics because the laws of physics dont apply to him; blaming everyone else for his own shortcomings; charge downs and forward passes.
I agree that the wallabies would be much better if everyone in the "team" took this approach.

 

[Penguin]

Shocker is unfair. I thought he was trying to play a pretty good distribution game.

And he did set up two, arguably 3 tries. It's just that 2 of those were blown by others Ie: Sharpe getting himself into an awkward position & getting held up & Samo dropping it over the line.
People just want to highlight the bad with Cooper (admittedly some shockers last night) & ignore the good.

 

[TOCC]

I for one don't see arrogance as a negative trait...


It's better then laughing and giggling with the opposition players..

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And he did set up two, arguably 3 tries. It's just that 2 of those were blown by others Ie: Sharpe getting himself into an awkward position & getting held up & Samo dropping it over the line.
People just want to highlight the bad with Cooper (admittedly some shockers tonight) & ignore the good.

Cooper's game is not conducive to repeatable good outcomes. It will always represent hit and miss. He will be forgiven for the misses because the hits are so spectacular.
However, a reliable team game cannot be built around them. That means that the team relies more and more on the brilliant flashes and suffers more when they don't come off.
The reality is that there is no one else: he (and Beale) are the result of the cult of the league 5/8 in junior union. We should be looking for the kids who can control the game and give opportunities to the other 14 - it results in 14 times as many ways to score points - but we are always seduced by the flashy player.

 

[naza]

it wasn't helped by the amount of side ways play that was happening. We too often lack direct straight play, quick realignment and depth

Tell me about it. We play aggressive slide defence..in attack !

 

[Tangawizi]

Should've won that with a bonus point.

Apart from bombing 2 tries, they found 2 in ten minutes to get themselves back into it but then concentration lapsed immediately afterwards.

Instead of thinking job done, they should've been fired up to grab more tries.

I don't think Quade will play as badly in Argentina and we will over there and win pretty well.

 

[fatprop]

Should've won that with a bonus point.

Apart from bombing 2 tries, they found 2 in ten minutes to get themselves back into it but then concentration lapsed immediately afterwards.

Instead of thinking job done, they should've been fired up to grab more tries.

I don't think Quade will play as badly in Argentina and we will over there and win pretty well.

I think we could get done actually, we will lack the composure in a very hostile enviroment

 

[barbarian]

I think the thing that disappointed me about Quade last night wasn't the usual QC (Quade Cooper) errors (intercept passes, going for that marginal pass that just doesn't come off, trying too hard to make something happen etc.) it was the unusual ones. The pass to Barnes that old QC (Quade Cooper) would have thrown a spiral beauty right onto his chest, the knock-ons with no pressure. Those errors aren't normal service for QC (Quade Cooper), and without them he would have had a good game IMO.

.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Shipperley with a busted finger. Sounds painful.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...ith-south-africa/story-fn8t7efs-1226475004375

 

[redstragic]

His arrogance is working well for him: dropped ball from nothing more than an arrogant conviction that he doesn't need to do the basics because the laws of physics dont apply to him; blaming everyone else for his own shortcomings; charge downs and forward passes.
I agree that the wallabies would be much better if everyone in the "team" took this approach.

I just don't get that he is arrogant, what I would like to see him grow into is the self confidence that the likes of Larkham, lynaugh and Flatley showed. And I really do believe he will, the confidence he showed in he 2011 super season is testament to that.

Larkhan, Flatley and Lynaugh played well in stable teams. we have not had many pleasant things to say about the wobs in the last 12 months. I think they look disorganized and unstable, not an environment for anybody to be consistent.

 

[Penguin]

Bieber has twinged his hamstring injury again. It really is getting quite chronic.

Here is a left field option...if Shipperly is out, why not look at Chris F'Sautia? It's not like we can win the thing anymore. Might as well blood another winger, as I have serious reservations of Drew Mitchell ever being able to get back to his 2011 Super Rugby form.

Because F'Sautia is also injured and even if he wasn't there is no way he's anywhere near ready to play test Rugby.

 

[Penguin]

For all those doubting & criticising this game being played on the coast, I think it was a resounding success. There was a healthy crowd figure & a great vibe, the facilities were very good & it was great to watch at an intimate venue at friendly prices.
Some very good Argie support helped create a unique atmosphere as did the Argie team which is doing a lot better in this tournament than a lot of people would have thought & a lot of comments in this thread don't want to acknowledge (there's more to a game of Rugby than dissecting the shortcomings of your own team people). We had a lot of fun, hope to see another test there in the future.

 

[rugbyfan]

I implied 'arrogance' in the sense that he doesn't have the right mindset that a top class footballer should possess.

I am again going to compare Quade with Dan Carter. You hear when commentators are commentating, and think whilst you are watching Dan Carter play, when he makes an error, it is uncharacteristic. As a fan watching, I am in shock when Carter makes a wrong decision or makes a silly error, because he so rarely makes them. He knows that if he makes one mistake during the game that it is his duty to not make another one for the rest of the game.

That mindset is what I think Quade lacks; don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that when he makes a mistake he doesn't give a shit, but I do think that he has a negative arrogant trait, where a little voice is inside his head telling him that no matter how many mistakes he makes he will still be starting and he will still be seen as a 'magician'.

I for one hate watching games where he makes constant schoolboy errors. You can reply to my opinion with "he didn't have much to work with" or "Genia wasn't playing so he's used to that kind of pass". But realistically, he is the best 10 in the country and one of the best in the world. It is his duty to put players in positions to get over the gain line AND I'm also positive he has put worst players than in our AUS backline through holes before.

There seems to be either a Plan A or Plan B with Quade. Plan A is to run to the line and give short balls, run to the line and use his magnificent footwork, or run to the line and hit Digby out wide. This plan is what has worked for him throughout the Super seasons to date. BUT what I have noticed throughout this International season so far is how the teams have adapted to his unpredictability. Thus leading to plan B, where no leadership is evident on the field, where his option is a cut out pass that cramps our backs up and leads to nothing but side to side play, with no more than 2-5m gains at a time. Sure if we grind it out we will score, but we aren't a team like NZ where 1-15 have superb ball skills and know that cleaning the ruck area is the most important priority rather than fanning off Quade for a lifeless hitup.

Personally, there is no other option at 10 for Quade (with Christian L injured) so this 'arrogance' isn't going anywhere soon. I think what we need to do is implement players that can play off his style.

9. White
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. O'Connor/Beale
13. Tapuai
14. Shipperly
15. Mogg/Beale


Reserves:
- Barnes
- O'Connor/Beale
- McCabe

 

[No4918]

His arrogance is working well for him: dropped ball from nothing more than an arrogant conviction that he doesn't need to do the basics because the laws of physics dont apply to him; blaming everyone else for his own shortcomings; charge downs and forward passes.
I agree that the wallabies would be much better if everyone in the "team" took this approach.

Get a grip. He was still better last night than Beale has been at any stage this tournament but Cooper is arrogant. He respects his spot enough to at least get fit as ever. lf Cooper is arrogant i'd take his arrogance over Beales any day who thinks he can walk up in the condition he is in and start.

 

[Mr Doug]

Another very ordinary performance from the national team tonight. Yes, it was a win, but it was disjointed, dysfunctional and frankly, I'm over it. Serial underperformers is the only phase that comes to mind to describe this 'Deans era' team. Furthermore, the game itself is in distress. Channel surfing tonight I was far more entertained watching the Rabbits and the Pies get their finals victories. International rugby (particularly the version played by Australia) doesn't flow, has more stops than starts and has far too many technical rulings that sees whistle blower regularly dominate proceedings.

Crofty, that comment defines you as a "sports fan", not a "rugby fan". Sadly you have many compatriots on this forum.
Your first sentence implies that our performance (which was below par at times), was against a weak opposition. The Pumas defence was enthusiastic, unrelenting, well organised and hard-hitting.

The 22,276 people who joined Mrs Doug and I in the stands at Skilled Park last night were "genuine rugby fans", with plenty of teenagers and young children present. Gone were the Leagies, and "sports fans" who, like you, were at home watching NRL and AFL on TV.

IMO the historic "first rugby test at Skilled Park" was more enjoyable without them!

 

[Ruggo]

More positives than negatives came out of that game for the Wallabies. Some repairs needed but don't forget that the Argies are an awkward side to play. The Argies oustside defence was very good and that nullified Quade's options. To the credit of our outside backs they came in looking for work. Our set piece was good. What I notice is that Alexander tires easily at THP. As the game went on he got weaker. He looks better technically but I don't think he has the engine for it. Douglas had a fine debut and we now have three viable TH lock options when it used to be Horwill and Daylight second. Barnes at FB did better than I thought so that is positive. We limited the stupid kicking and now just need to work on being a bit more coherant in our combinations. That is what the training padock is for so we can fix that.

The Argies are here for the long term and now they have taken the fight to 1,2 and three in the world. Credit to them and they are holding their own well in this comp.

 

[cyclopath]

More positives than negatives came out of that game for the Wallabies. Some repairs needed but don't forget that the Argies are an awkward side to play. The Argies oustside defence was very good and that nullified Quade's options. To the credit of our outside backs they came in looking for work. Our set piece was good. What I notice is that Alexander tires easily at THP. As the game went on he got weaker. He looks better technically but I don't think he has the engine for it. Douglas had a fine debut and we now have three viable TH lock options when it used to be Horwill and Daylight second. Barnes at FB did better than I thought so that is positive. We limited the stupid kicking and now just need to work on being a bit more coherant in our combinations. That is what the training padock is for so we can fix that.

The Argies are here for the long term and now they have taken the fight to 1,2 and three in the world. Credit to them and they are holding their own well in this comp.

Having just watched the game, as I was out last night, I agree with this.
Argentina are no mugs, they defended very well and put a lot of pressure on us.
The forwards, largely, manned up well, and made some very good carries - Douglas, Alexander, Sharpe et al were good in this.
The backs tried some enterprise and width, and sure, Quade had a poor first half, but we blew a few scoring chances and could easily have been in front at oranges.
We should have, and could have won that by 15 or more.
Having heard a bit of stick for Phipps, I watched him closely, and he was OK, with a brain fart or two.
Pluses - the scrum is going OK, not brilliant, but OK despite the much-discussed deficiencies in personnel and technique; breakdown work was eager; our defence was good; Douglas did not look out of place; Hooper continues to impress.
Negatives - kicking consistency is still very poor; handling at key times is still iffy; attack a bit too lateral and with McCabe (who was good) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) we are not going to surprise anyone in attack, although both are very capable.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I implied 'arrogance' in the sense that he doesn't have the right mindset that a top class footballer should possess.

I am again going to compare Quade with Dan Carter.

Let's get serious here. QC (Quade Cooper) is nowhere near DC and those muppet journalists who implied otherwise pre RWC last year are just looking to create headlines. Quade isn't in the same league and for my money I would put Juan Martin Hernandez (who i rate, and have since RWC 2007, as the 2nd best 10 in the world when fit) ahead of QC (Quade Cooper), ditto Cruden, ditto lealifano on super form this year, and i'd probably put wilkinson ahead of him too, who is still mr consistent for toulon.
QC (Quade Cooper) is great, but inconsistent and a long ways from DC and JMH in my opinion and not in the same league as many other recently retired greats.

that said, he's probably the best you've got.
I too am concerned with JOC (James O'Connor)'s hammy at the moment. it is worryingly frequent, his injuries.

 

[Mr Doug]

For all those doubting & criticising this game being played on the coast, I think it was a resounding success. There was a healthy crowd figure & a great vibe, the facilities where very good & it was great to watch at an intimate venue at friendly prices.
Some very good Argie support helped create a unique atmosphere as did the Argie team which is doing a lot better in this tournament than a lot of people would have thought & a lot of comments in this thread don't want to acknowledge (there's more to a game of Rugby than dissecting the shortcomings of your own team people). We had a lot of fun, hope to see another test there in the future.

Totally agree Penguin.
As I've already said, made more enjoyable by fans being "fair dinkum rugby supporters", not imposters, there for a booze-up and to throw insults!
A few observations:
1. Very emotional singing of Advance Australia Fair, with the crowd sounding more like the sons and daughters of Gwalia! Mrs Doug reckons it's "the people" telling those listening that we are not happy with the "cultural changes" being forced on our country!
2. Personally, I thought Phipps went ok, and let's remember that the critics on this thread who refer to his lack of speed around the ruck, were doing likewise to Genia a few matches ago.
3. Impressed with Hooper's work-rate and speed around the paddock, where many of his fellow-forwards were slow to the break-down.
4. Hugh Jarse made a comment recently that proved right last night, namely, Los Pumas play well for around 60 minutes.
5. The 'Official Programe' (Match Souvenir) contained an article on Robbie Deans, which included the quote that RD is "A meticulous planner and an astute analyst of the game" That may be so, but I feel his problem is twofold (a) commnicating that plan to the players, and (b) ensuring that it is carried out on match day!
That assumes that his plan is the correct one for the opposition, in the first place!!

 

[CTPE]

I thought McCabe played well. I was surprised none of the people who have been claiming he can't pass haven't been publicly retracting those statements. Others have claimed he is too slow, yet he ran down the Argentinian winger who is supposedly a flyer. He made it over the gain line every time, and scored a try with a good running angle. It was the best performance by a Wallaby 12 so far in the TRC.

It was also good to see the passion when he scored that try. The bloke gives it everything, and if all our players had that heart and determination we would be traveling much better.

He has trouble with left to right spiral passes - at one point in the second half when the Wobblies were attacking on the right rather than pass left to right across his body he swivelled his torso and passed right to left behind him. He also looks a bit unco with his running style and lacks the class of his backline team mates in some other skills but shit - he'd always be in my team because he runs hard, tackles hard, doesn't make stupid errors, always gets over the advantage line, is not arrogant, plays with passion, plays well even when hurt, know hows to run a good line and isn't afraid to especially close to the line + more.