2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August

[ACR]

just imagine the defending player ripping the ball off an attacking player outside of his (the defender's) 22 and then passing back inside his 22. If they called him the attacker there would be even more confusion because why would you call someone near his own 22 the attacker?

I consider the attacker to be the person in possession of the ball, field position irrelevant. What about when the defending player doesn't touch the ball?

The attacking team takes a ruck outside their own 22, next phase they are tackled in their own 22, thus they can now kick the ball out on the full? This is without the 'defender' ever touching the ball.

That doesn't sound right, so does that rule you quoted only apply to when the defending team somehow turns over possession, takes it back, takes a tackle, then can kick out?

Side note: Israel Dagg permenately has his mouth open, does this affect this rule in any way?

Side side note: I've over thought this.

CONCLUSION: I've cleared this up. Went to the IRB website and looked at the laws, they consider someone in their own half whether in possession or not to be the defender. e.g. "When a defending team throws the ball into a scrum or lineout outside that team’s 22"

So the above in Blue is correct.

They have the ball, why are they the defender?

 

[aeneas]

Sadly it's not going to get any easier. The boks will be looking forward to their match with the wallabies.

Poor Drew Mitchell I hope he makes it back.

 

[Karl]

I haven't commented at all during the game because I was trying to be "present" with my boys. That meant I was yelling at the TV instead of typing madly, but from an engagement point of view I'm sure that seemed much more Present.

I think I have to call out less from the sideline at U9 and U11 teams I am involved with and frequently get less frustrated with BJRU refs than I got with this prig tonight.

We wonder why Rugby League gets a Billion Dollars (put pinkie to mouth a la Dr Evil) to show their game in 3 states of one country while we beg for FTA on International "blockbusters" and get jack shit for everything else.

I don't know. I'm frankly struggling to care.

Maybe I'll just have fun coaching U6 to U12 club juniors and enjoy great days today like the round robin tournie at Taylor Bridge and forget that Deans and the Wobblies, and uncommitted slack arses and dickhead refs like buggaluggs tonight exist and just simplify my engagement with this game to the simplest point where pure joy in playing your arse off with your mates is all that matters.

I feel like a bunch of hero's died tonight, but maybe thats just me being a pessimistic prick. Australian Rugby is broken for mine. And more of the same shit isn't going to fix it.

 

[No4918]

What do people see in Dennis? Can hardly recall one time in the last two games he has made a bit of difference. Higgers has been bad as well and should be dropped also but at least i can see something there that makes me think he could be a test player, just not at 8.

 

[The Snout]

Some thoughts.

I don't agree with the All Blacks bombing two or three tries. I thought the Wallabies showed heart in fighting to defend their line when a score could have been run up on them.
If it had been the All Blacks stripping ball over their line when defending people would say how awesome their defence is. When it's the Wallabies it how the All Blacks bombed it. So I don't agree, I'm paying the Wobs for defending to the death and only letting in 1 try at Eden Park. That's a positive.

Scrum was a positive. Hooper was good.

Kicking the ball away from Australia was unacceptable and I think everyone here feels that for sure. At one part I also saw Genia put up a kick to chase and no one, including him, chased it. If you're going to do that then kick it as far as you can. He basically gifted the ball back to them maybe 20 metres down field.

I was and still am a Deans supporter. But, his time has come. For whatever reason his methods don't work either in International Rugby or just with the Australian's. Whichever it is, it's time for him to go. Australia has regressed, we aren't moving forward at all. I was happy we beat Wales but I thought at the time it was more home ground and a bit of guts that got us home, not our play or skills.

 

[Mr Doug]

Geez mr Doug, I think you a bit hard on Owens, I thought he missed a couple of things for both teams, but if a ref pings everything, he gets shit like last week. I obviously very happy, thought the ABs played bloody well, actually thought it a bloody good game, and ok Wallabies (and Australian rugby in general) have to concentrate a bit more on agressive forward play. I think a case would be just watch how physical contact area is in ITM cup, I think there is more hurt in almost any ruck/maul than i see Wallaby forwards trying to do.

Hi Dan, Owens has two "assistant referees" to pick up the plays that he misses, so it's a "team" thing. I still think the ball travels forward on too many occasions (from both teams) where none of the three refs see it (or choose not to act), so if it becomes "the norm" to ignore it, our game will become like AFL, where any player can pass to any other player, regardless of their position in relation to the first player.
I agree, that although not at their best, the ABs were much too 'smart' for the Wallabies. I'm hoping they can reorganise before we go to watch them play Argentina!

 

[Jay]

in last week's game there was a situation where Ioane carried the ball outside the AUS 22, it got recycled, Aus set up another ruck - inside the 22 - and then Barnes kicked out on the full. It was the play where Carter tried the quick throw to A Smith which was whistled back. Nisbett was wanging on about how the throw-in should have been where the kick was made, because AUS carried the ball back. They did, but they set up another ruck inside the 22, so it's not carried back anymore and you are allowed to kick out on the full.

It was annoying to hear him complain about a referee's decision that was clearly right and in no way misinterpretable. Screw you, Nisbo

Even if the Wallabies hadn't had a ruck in the 22, the quick throw in wouldn't have been allowed.

A quick throw in can only be taken from where the ball went into touch (or closer to the throwing team's goal line) even if it's a 'no gain in ground' situation. So, even if the lineout mark was eventually made in the Wallabies' 22, the AB's can only take the quick throw in from where the ball crossed the touch line.

The ITM Cup is trialling a law where, in such situations, the throw can be taken up to where the ball was kicked from, incidentally.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I haven't commented at all during the game because I was trying to be "present" with my boys. That meant I was yelling at the TV instead of typing madly, but from an engagement point of view I'm sure that seemed much more Present.

I think I have to call out less from the sideline at U9 and U11 teams I am involved with and frequently get less frustrated with BJRU refs than I got with this prig tonight.

We wonder why Rugby League gets a Billion Dollars (put pinkie to mouth a la Dr Evil) to show their game in 3 states of one country while we beg for FTA on International "blockbusters" and get jack shit for everything else.

I don't know. I'm frankly struggling to care.

Maybe I'll just have fun coaching U6 to U12 club juniors and enjoy great days today like the round robin tournie at Taylor Bridge and forget that Deans and the Wobblies, and uncommitted slack arses and dickhead refs like buggaluggs tonight exist and just simplify my engagement with this game to the simplest point where pure joy in playing your arse off with your mates is all that matters.

I feel like a bunch of hero's died tonight, but maybe thats just me being a pessimistic prick. Australian Rugby is broken for mine. And more of the same shit isn't going to fix it.

Man you've captured my despair + the good bits of rugby that dont depend on holding the Bledisloe or being world champs.
Ahhhhhh - the game they play in heaven...

 

[Viking]

First thoughts:

Aggression was great, errors/basics were poor. If we can keep up this intensity we are on the right track.

I take back everything negative i said about Timani, I thought he was immense today. A lot of great tackles, and hard aggression. I hope he can keep it up.

What a shocker from Barnes. His aimless kicking and poor decision making played a massive part in our lose.

 

[RedsFanDan]

Le sigh,

Did anyone else see when Hore made that turnover that 3 wallabies hit him and all bounced over him?

Things to work on for next week...

Cleaning out and walking over rucks in numbers to secure the pill. You'd think this would be a basic skill for pretty much everyone in the wobs to have?

A metric shit tonne of high balls and make sure everyone in the 30 man squad can take a high ball. We give away far too much territory to high balls and this should be a fairly easy thing for us to defend against growing up in the land of AFL.

Kicking. Either gain territory with every kick or don't fucking bother, ESPECIALLY with Gear, Dagg, Jane and Carter waiting to punish us.

Setting up and passing to a man 'on the burst'. All this flat footed bullshit where everyone stands around waiting for the ball to be given to them before they figure out what they're gonna do drives me up the wall and needs to stop. I don't think it's too much to ask for the onfield generals to be planning the next phase and every player to know exactly what their role is and perform it.

I direct you to the below video for examples of what we should and, indeed, could be doing wit our current squad.

 

[Braveheart81]

What do people see in Dennis? Can hardly recall one time in the last two games he has made a bit of difference. Higgers has been bad as well and should be dropped also but at least i can see something there that makes me think he could be a test player, just not at 8.

I think our 6 and 8 are struggling to compete at the moment. They're both inexperienced and we lack physicality without Palu.

I think they will both get better with time but it is tough going against the AB backrow. Especially when Read plays out of his skin.

We don't have a lot of options with Palu out injured unfortunately.

 

[SaderCheif]

www.arcrugby.co.nz

Coming to Brisbane for NZ v SA and AUS v ARG on the 15th September.

I had a chat with jedi tonight. He was in Melbs.

 

[biggsy]

What a shocker from Barnes. His aimless kicking and poor decision making played a massive part in our lose.

Maybe if deans let cooper play 1st receiver, Barnes aimless kicking would not have pissed off everyone watching the game.

 

[Scarfman]

Most retarded game plan ever.

The mind reels and reels until it needs to puke.

I am literally hoping that we lose to Argentina so that we get a new coach for the Lions. An Australian coach.

Plenty of the piggies played their arses off tonight just for the backs to play like U7s and fuck everything up. Embarrassing.

 

[Ruggo]

No blamming Owens. We just weren't up to it. Kearns can piss off. One minute he is praising the ref for pining McCaw then next he is the reason for all our woes. Please stop making all Australians look like sore losers as we are not.

I can't put the Wallabies efforts or lack there of in a polite and diplomatic manner so the least I say the better.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Moore had a good game. He was fine in the scrum but the lineout was substantially worse this week than last. His pick and go was pretty good and he got through plenty of work around the field.

I think it was the right choice to give Moore a start but I think it also showed that TPN probably doesn't deserve a lot of the criticism he has been receiving.

Robbo had a much, much better game until he got injured. He was busy around the field, made a couple of strong tackles and was generally much more involved.

 

[Brumbieman]

Would be awesome to have a 13 that could get over the gain line out wide though. Get over the line, take it to ground, recycle. Is it that hard?

He does that role extremely well for the Reds, who are well coached. Doesn't seem to strange their backline, yet in gold everyone thinks he's useless. Being picked out of position outside players like Barnes who're never going to give him the ball in a decent position, doesn't help.

 

[vismyr]

Commiserations to the Wallabies and supporters -- unfortunately you didn't get the rub of the green tonight, but I thought this match was a huge improvement from last week, and some true grit shown by the Wallabies in the first 20 mins and in their scrambling defence all night. They never gave up and it could easily have turned into Ireland/All Blacks game three but credit to the Wallabies that didn't happen.

Congrats to the All Blacks for a decade of Bledisloe Dominance.

Now onto the party...woo-hoo!

 

[Scotty]

We need to scrap all pre selections and current game plan and build for next year and beyond. Starting line up for 2 weeks:

1 slipper
2 Moore
3 kepu
4 neville
5 sharpe
6 Timani
7 hooper
8 samo
9 genia
10 cooper
11 ioane
12 tapuai
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 shipperley
15 JOC (James O'Connor)

This side couldn't do any worse.

 

[ACR]

I had a chat with jedi tonight. He was in Melbs.

Cool, bit of a funny bugger old Jed.