2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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maxdacat
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Pretty much agree with all that.....i would add:
- it looked at times like our scrum was either mess or going backward on our feed, which a) makes it harder for Genia and b) immediately gives the Blacks a chance to get in our face. Playing like this is not smart.
- defence was generally ok but we make it too easy for black to get over the adv line while we struggle. Fix this and the results will follow.
- do we rely on 12 & 13 who can run real fast or bust the line properly? Crazy thought...move Higgers out there.
- for all the talk of bad selections, it's not like the talent pool is that deep in this country.
Newbie
Bill McLean (32)
I know that I will probably cop some flack over what I am about to say but I will continue nevertheless. It is my position that the blame cannot be laid solely at the feet of Robbie Deans, after all Australia's rugby problems (i.e. its inability to win the Bledisloe Cup or the World Cup) existed prior to the Deans’ era commencing. In my opinion Australia's rugby demise over the last decade has been so gradual and/or incremental that we didn't even see it happen.
For me the alarm bells really started to become audible when Australia lost to Samoa. This was shortly followed by a dismal performance in the World Cup where Australia was even beaten by the Irish. Yes the Irish did play well, and as an Irishman I was quietly praying for that miracle victory, but Australia should never have been in a position to have lost that game, especially when given the level of purported professionalism and commercialism that presently exists at the top of our rugby hierarchy.
Now here we are in 2012 and the future is not looking any rosier! The domestic test series leading up to the Bledisloe Cup did nothing to instil me with any confidence that Australia was capable of beating The All Blacks! Firstly to have lost the water polo match against Scotland was inexcusable. And secondly the series against the Welsh did very little to enhance Australia's profile as a rugby superpower. Yes we can all blame Deans for the Wallabies abysmal performance over the last couple of years (and to a degree it is justified), however does Deans really have a great depth of real talent to work with? I believe he doesn't!
From my observations of Australian rugby over the last 30 years it has always been my view that when a key Wallaby was injured there was never really anybody of equal talent to replace him. For example I could take you back to that great era of Australian rugby during the early 90’s when the Wallabies were almost invincible. And when in 1993/94 the Wallabies sustained key injuries to players like Little, Horan, and Kearns; suddenly the Wallabies were back to being the whipping boys for the All Blacks.
During the same era when Australian rugby reigned supreme I often had the opportunity to visit New Zealand. As a consequence I became a great fan of their National Provincial Championship. From that point in time I became acutely aware from where the all Blacks were able to draw their depth and wealth in talent. Essentially every All-Black was (and still is) kept honest in his playing position because there were (and still are) generally five players of near or equal ability that can replace them if their performance was (is) sub-par. As stated above it is my opinion that Australia does not have this luxury.
I recently read an article where the ARU applauded its national junior development programme (i.e. the NGS/JGS), stating that in the last 10 years the programme had developed numerous players who went on to become Wallabies. In fact there are numerous current Wallabies who are a product of the same programme. Yet here we are, a decade later, still awaiting a Bledisloe Cup and/or World Cup and/or Junior World Cup. I'm sorry but success can only be measured by achievement, and to date the trophy cabinet is a little bare.
I can remember a time when New South Wales (and probably Queensland) had an adequate club rugby competition which relatively speaking translators to keeping Australia in touch with the All Blacks at the international level. Alas, over the years it has been neglected because the ARU have been more focused on the commodification of super rugby and the Wallabies than it has on the development of grass-roots rugby.
Please is it not the case that the chicken hatches from the egg? As far as I'm concerned the national rugby team of any country will do relatively well when its lower tiers or domestic competitions are strong, after all where does any national team draw its players? I'm sorry but a super-coach will not automatically translate to a super-team; this has been proven with Robbie Deans IMO! Perhaps my ideals are utopian as far as club rugby is concerned, but I still strongly believe that Australia will continue to roam in the rugby wilderness until such a time as it decides to go back to its roots.
For me the alarm bells really started to become audible when Australia lost to Samoa. This was shortly followed by a dismal performance in the World Cup where Australia was even beaten by the Irish. Yes the Irish did play well, and as an Irishman I was quietly praying for that miracle victory, but Australia should never have been in a position to have lost that game, especially when given the level of purported professionalism and commercialism that presently exists at the top of our rugby hierarchy.
Now here we are in 2012 and the future is not looking any rosier! The domestic test series leading up to the Bledisloe Cup did nothing to instil me with any confidence that Australia was capable of beating The All Blacks! Firstly to have lost the water polo match against Scotland was inexcusable. And secondly the series against the Welsh did very little to enhance Australia's profile as a rugby superpower. Yes we can all blame Deans for the Wallabies abysmal performance over the last couple of years (and to a degree it is justified), however does Deans really have a great depth of real talent to work with? I believe he doesn't!
From my observations of Australian rugby over the last 30 years it has always been my view that when a key Wallaby was injured there was never really anybody of equal talent to replace him. For example I could take you back to that great era of Australian rugby during the early 90’s when the Wallabies were almost invincible. And when in 1993/94 the Wallabies sustained key injuries to players like Little, Horan, and Kearns; suddenly the Wallabies were back to being the whipping boys for the All Blacks.
During the same era when Australian rugby reigned supreme I often had the opportunity to visit New Zealand. As a consequence I became a great fan of their National Provincial Championship. From that point in time I became acutely aware from where the all Blacks were able to draw their depth and wealth in talent. Essentially every All-Black was (and still is) kept honest in his playing position because there were (and still are) generally five players of near or equal ability that can replace them if their performance was (is) sub-par. As stated above it is my opinion that Australia does not have this luxury.
I recently read an article where the ARU applauded its national junior development programme (i.e. the NGS/JGS), stating that in the last 10 years the programme had developed numerous players who went on to become Wallabies. In fact there are numerous current Wallabies who are a product of the same programme. Yet here we are, a decade later, still awaiting a Bledisloe Cup and/or World Cup and/or Junior World Cup. I'm sorry but success can only be measured by achievement, and to date the trophy cabinet is a little bare.
I can remember a time when New South Wales (and probably Queensland) had an adequate club rugby competition which relatively speaking translators to keeping Australia in touch with the All Blacks at the international level. Alas, over the years it has been neglected because the ARU have been more focused on the commodification of super rugby and the Wallabies than it has on the development of grass-roots rugby.
Please is it not the case that the chicken hatches from the egg? As far as I'm concerned the national rugby team of any country will do relatively well when its lower tiers or domestic competitions are strong, after all where does any national team draw its players? I'm sorry but a super-coach will not automatically translate to a super-team; this has been proven with Robbie Deans IMO! Perhaps my ideals are utopian as far as club rugby is concerned, but I still strongly believe that Australia will continue to roam in the rugby wilderness until such a time as it decides to go back to its roots.
Ghibli
Ted Thorn (20)
Anyone trying to find anything positive out of the Wallabies performance tonight would be kidding themselves.
This mob are rudderless. They have no game plan, they are not fit physically for 80 minutes of test rugby, and they just are not brutal enough to intimidate any top side.
To say otherwise it only ignores the reality that this team is very unlikely to ever beat the AB, let alone winning any titles.
Look at the AB, then look at the Wallabies - the only Wallaby who would make the AB side would be Ioane, IMHO.
No point in pussyfooting around, a total overhaul of this dysfunctional Wallaby set up is needed ASAP, we can put a team on the park that can do better than that.
This mob are rudderless. They have no game plan, they are not fit physically for 80 minutes of test rugby, and they just are not brutal enough to intimidate any top side.
To say otherwise it only ignores the reality that this team is very unlikely to ever beat the AB, let alone winning any titles.
Look at the AB, then look at the Wallabies - the only Wallaby who would make the AB side would be Ioane, IMHO.
No point in pussyfooting around, a total overhaul of this dysfunctional Wallaby set up is needed ASAP, we can put a team on the park that can do better than that.
AngrySeahorse
Peter Sullivan (51)
Most on here have covered a lot of what I think about this game which can be summarised by this - 
A couple of things: Timani played really well, very happy for him. Hooper was not overawed - played well, good signs there. Despite a couple of mistakes I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) did do some very good things, his try saver was great. Could not be bothered going through the rest of the team. Ultimately our biggest negative was our kicking, it was terrible & there was too much of it. I'm not against kicking but if you do kick I like to see it done with purpose & good execution.
I think most of our team did show heart, you could see players were gutted but I still see some players laughing it up with the AB's after a game & that still shits me to tears.
You can be sportsmanlike but still be gutted & aloof to your opponent post game at the same time. The club game semi I was in tonight post match our opposition shook hands but they looked like they wanted to murder us. Compare that to what some of the Wallabies looked like after losing 22-0 to the ABs & essentially not having the Bled for yet another year? "Gee SBW you & your blokes sure handed out arses to us tonight, happy days, hahahaha". Seriously, WTF?
A couple of things: Timani played really well, very happy for him. Hooper was not overawed - played well, good signs there. Despite a couple of mistakes I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) did do some very good things, his try saver was great. Could not be bothered going through the rest of the team. Ultimately our biggest negative was our kicking, it was terrible & there was too much of it. I'm not against kicking but if you do kick I like to see it done with purpose & good execution.
I think most of our team did show heart, you could see players were gutted but I still see some players laughing it up with the AB's after a game & that still shits me to tears.
You can be sportsmanlike but still be gutted & aloof to your opponent post game at the same time. The club game semi I was in tonight post match our opposition shook hands but they looked like they wanted to murder us. Compare that to what some of the Wallabies looked like after losing 22-0 to the ABs & essentially not having the Bled for yet another year? "Gee SBW you & your blokes sure handed out arses to us tonight, happy days, hahahaha". Seriously, WTF?
W
Waylon
Guest
The good news..........Horne got hooked. The look on his face post match told me he knew he had played his last test. He was rubbish again. Deans obviously gave him the tap on the shoulder and he failed again.......
Beale is the most over rated wallaby of all time
Hooper was great
Timani showed he has the mongrel. Some of his hits were awesome. We need another 7 forwards that hit and hurt
If the backs held onto the ball instead of doing stupid chip kicks and grubber kicks everytime we got it, who knows? The Blicks only scored one try
The effort was enormous. The defence was offensive and inspiring at times. The team really had a crack
The teamwork in attack is poor. The backs have a very poor skill set. Can't kick or take high balls. Some of them are poor defenders. Some of them offer very little in attack.
Another year to brood. I can't stand it
Beale is the most over rated wallaby of all time
Hooper was great
Timani showed he has the mongrel. Some of his hits were awesome. We need another 7 forwards that hit and hurt
If the backs held onto the ball instead of doing stupid chip kicks and grubber kicks everytime we got it, who knows? The Blicks only scored one try
The effort was enormous. The defence was offensive and inspiring at times. The team really had a crack
The teamwork in attack is poor. The backs have a very poor skill set. Can't kick or take high balls. Some of them are poor defenders. Some of them offer very little in attack.
Another year to brood. I can't stand it
T
tranquility
Guest
Its a sick joke how good Israel Dagg has become. Top 5 players on the planet, without any sort of controversy.
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
That is pretty much on the money Waylon.
I am not sure how far off Palmer and Palu are but they should help. Having Palu at 8 allows Higgers to play a little looser. However I would have a look at Kimlin for 6 with Palu at 8.
Slipper looks to have put on a bit of beef and did well when he came on. What happened to Robbo? He may be one of those that never makes it back to the level he was at prior to injury.
Alexander actually went OK and offered more than Kepu in general play.
I would start with Slipper, Moore and Palmer and have either Alexander or Kepu on the bench.
Barnes and Horne have to go. I am a NSWelsman and have no bias either way when it comes to the Wallabies but the Waratahs messed up franchise was never going to convert to a successful Wallaby campaign.
Along with Robbo, Horne and Barnes Dennis also need to go.
Can we present a decent side with half a chance against the Boks in Perth in 2 weeks? I don't think so if Deans is still driving the bus.
teach
Trevor Allan (34)
They had a game plan. At his post match interview, Cooper said it was to play in the AB's half, which explained all the kicking.
However they are not fit. My son commentedon just how clearly overweight a lot of the players seemed to be. A suspicion of an incipient pot belly on at least 2 backs. There were very few lean players. I thought some of the backs looked distinctly pudgy.
As I write this, I am watching the SA v Arg game .Argentina up ten nil with 21 minutes gone, playing at a frenetic pace. They could be ahandful as the tournament goes on.
BarneySF
Bob Loudon (25)
Are there players out there that we haven't heard of that can somehow come into the fold for this team? Like some brutal 3, 6, 8 and/or 12, or are those players that were in the original train on squad and excluded all we can really look forward to for the medium term (notwithstanding coach sackings or lack thereof)?
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Not sure why people are getting up Horne. He did some good things out there. Got zero opportunity in attack but he played with passion and urgency and tackled well considering Barnes was drifting in to coopers channel leaving Horne (& ant when he came on) with virtually a consistent overlap to defend. Im not sure who where going to throw at 13 that's going to do better. Especially since Horne is our top wallaby try scorer for 2012.
redstragic
Alan Cameron (40)
Not sure what the stupid chip kicks are all about. Is it about confidence? Never was a back so I am unsure of the psychosis that encourages that thought process. Not sure why they continued to be allowed to do them.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
the only times we should kick against the ABs are for territory, and if there is a genuine scoring opportunity via a chip/grubber..aside from that, HOLD ONTO THE FUCKING THING!!!
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
I thought the kicking had more to do with our breakdown performance, no one in the wallaby team seemed sure of holding onto the ball if they took it into contact, so kicking became the better option.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Worst Australian performance last night was from Phil Kearns.
Marto was second worst.
Seriously the Foxtel Team performance was awful and cringeworthy.
To be considered to have a performance worse than that from the Men in Gold takes some doing, but Foxtel team achieved that distinction.
Marto was second worst.
Seriously the Foxtel Team performance was awful and cringeworthy.
To be considered to have a performance worse than that from the Men in Gold takes some doing, but Foxtel team achieved that distinction.
A
AlexH
Guest
Genia would have it over Smith too. Well, at least he would this year.
An uninjured Pocock is a better athlete than McCaw but he would still play behind him on the bench because McCaw brings a lot more to the table than just his skill set as a seven.
Apart from those two omissions I think you are pretty much on the money.
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