2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August

[Braveheart81]

My only concern would be the fitness of Samo..

That is why I'd only want him out there for about half an hour. I thought he did provide some impact when he came on in an otherwise completely ineffectual backrow. We have to change something and that is about the only option we have.

The idea would be that he has to give us some go forward early and get the forwards into the game. Higginbotham and Dennis just couldn't do that in game 1.

 

[The Red Baron]

I honestly think that we throw some guys out to the wolves and see how they perform. They might be scarred for life, but surely they can't be any worse than the guys we keep picking!

With that in mind, I would select something like:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Sharpe
5. Douglas
6. Schatz
7. Hooper (If the reports are true and Poey is injured)
8. Higgers
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. Taps
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Beale

Bench would be a 5/2 split
16. Robinson
17. TPN
18. Dennis
19. Samo
20. Simmons
21. Harris
22. Insert reserve halfback here

We need to really front up. We need a pack that works hard, and works as a pack! Guys that relish the work in tight are a must. I would like to see Mowen in the squad, but that isn't going to happen.

An alternative backrow could be:
6. Higgers
7. Hooper
8. Samo

As others have suggested, Have Samo on for the first 30 and then bring on someone else. I would sub Samo for Schatz. At about the 55-60 min mark, sub higgers for Dennis and bring Simmons on for Douglas. I would probably bring Robbo on at the 60 min mark too. Take Kepu off, and push Slipper to TH. 65 mins would see TPN come on. Play the game out with those guys.

If we are going to keep our 7 on for the whole game, I don't see much point in having a backup 7 on the bench. It is just a wasted bench spot.

It would be a big ask for guys like Douglas, Schatz, Hooper, Taps and even Cooper. But we can't keep hitting our heads against a brick wall over and over.

Unfortunately, this scenario is not likely to eventuate. Starting Taps would mean drafting him in from outside of the squad, something that Robbie will not do. If that is the case, then I would have to say we keep Horne, as there is no other option.

On another note, I am sure it has been said many times now, but how far away is Palmer from being fit?

 

[Brumby Jack]

Pocock is out.

Needs keyhole surgery on his knee to see how bad it is.

 

[liquor box]

22. Insert reserve halfback here

I often wonder if this is a wasted position. We only need a reserve halfback if Genia gets injured, I cant see him just being subbed. Btween QC (Quade Cooper), Barnes and KB (Kurtley Beale) cant we comeup with a stopgap measure that would get us through a game?

Did QC (Quade Cooper) and Barnes ever fill 9 and 10 at the Reds? I thought they did for a few games before Genia became dominant- it might have been for injuries though

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Pocock is out.

Needs keyhole surgery on his knee to see how bad it is.

Out of adversity comes opportunity. Step up Michael Hooper. Gill to the bench.

 

[Bullrush]

I often wonder if this is a wasted position. We only need a reserve halfback if Genia gets injured, I cant see him just being subbed. Btween QC (Quade Cooper), Barnes and KB (Kurtley Beale) cant we comeup with a stopgap measure that would get us through a game?

Did QC (Quade Cooper) and Barnes ever fill 9 and 10 at the Reds? I thought they did for a few games before Genia became dominant- it might have been for injuries though

Do you honestly think that any of these guys would be a better Test level half-back than Phipps?!?

I understand the thinking but many here have said that if Phipps has to come on due to an injury to Genia then the Wallabies are stuffed. I really don't know if that changes if you put QC (Quade Cooper), Barnes or KB (Kurtley Beale) there.....or if it actually makes it worse....

That is really a sign of desperation.

 

[tigerland12]

So with Pocock out, I'd like to see these changes

Slipper for Robinson
Moore for Polota-Nau
Hooper for Pocock
Cooper for Horne (Fainga'a to 13, Barnes to 12).
Gill onto the bench.

Realistically I think these are the only changes we are potentially going to see.

 

[Braveheart81]

I thought it was ridiculous that Hooper didn't come on for Higginbotham in the last 15 minutes because he was playing so poorly. If you're going to have 5 forward reserves you have to use them all.

In hindsight I wonder if he stayed on the bench because they knew Pocock was injured and weren't sure if he would last the game. If they'd brought Higgers off and then Pocock had been unable to continue we'd have been stuffed.

 

[Braveheart81]

So with Pocock out, I'd like to see these changes

Slipper for Robinson
Moore for Polota-Nau
Hooper for Pocock
Cooper for Horne (Fainga'a to 13, Barnes to 12).
Gill onto the bench.

Realistically I think these are the only changes we are potentially going to see.

I agree with all of those except I can't see Horne losing his spot to Fainga'a. Fainga'a didn't have a good game and was certainly no better than Horne. I also can't really see Mitchell displacing Horne (i.e. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) moves to 13).

 

[Jiggles]

Benn Robinson has been unfit and out of form all year, so he has to go. He was rubbish against Wales, and regularly lazy for the Tahs. However bringing in Slipper to LHP, where he hasn't played much, would be a mistake. Deans has to bite the bullet and bring Holmes, the best performing Australian LHP this year, in from outside the squad. I think his ego, and refusal to admit fault with selections/tactics will prevent this, though.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Attack is built from good defence.

When your "good defence" has limited attacking ability, what then?

Do we go for all out attack this time? Our "good defence" was too slow to realign, and overly focused on the threats posed by $BW and Nonu, and ignored the out wide twinkle toes attack options that the Darkness actually used to great effect.

Will Hansen try to con us again with more of the same, or has Dingo et al got the intellectual horsepower to get the Lords of Darkness guessing/second guessing what tactics we will be employing.

 

[Braveheart81]

There was no overlap on the first try. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) made a poor decision to assist Fainga'a with his man leaving Dagg unmarked on the outside.

Beale then missed the tackle but the reality was that Dagg should never have been open on the wing in the first place.

 

[Ignoto]

Do we go for all out attack this time? Our "good defence" was too slow to realign, and overly focused on the threats posed by $BW and Nonu, and ignored the out wide twinkle toes attack options that the Darkness actually used to great effect.

If that was our best defensive team, we should just go for broke and put an attacking based team on. Who knows, we might get a lead and can put some defensive/high working players on.

RuckingGoodStats has on missed tackles
Australia - 16 (Missing 1 in 4 tackle attempts, or every 43 secs)
New Zealand - 16 (Missing 1 in 7 tackle attempts, or every 61 secs)

Actually, scrap that, just put 15 guys on the field who can catch, pass and tackle.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There was no overlap on the first try. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) made a poor decision to assist Fainga'a with his man leaving Dagg unmarked on the outside.

Beale then missed the tackle but the reality was that Dagg should never have been open on the wing in the first place.

When the 14 comes inside off his man to assist the man inside him because that man is deemed to be a more significant threat, then isn't that an overlap situation?

IIRC during a Jarse freeze frame replay of the buildup to that try, there were 3 extra black jumpers in the screen at the time of "the pass". The Black #7, #8 were right there with the nearest Wobs loosie about 8 metres away. In a well executed set play move, I think the Darkness had "fixed" the Wobs #10 away from the action, and concentrated so many of their numbers near the ball carrier that whatever the Wobs did, the Darkness had more options open. Even if Gilbert had made the tackle, the Darkness had sufficient numbers to quickly recycle the ball and would have probably gone over unopposed from that quick phase ball regardless.

 

[Bullrush]

My 2cents...

I said before the game that Sharpe should go.....big 'X' next to that one. To be fair, the main reason for saying that was to give some of the new blood a chance to get international experience. Apart from that, here are some of my thoughts...

Kurtley Beale. I started worrying about this guy as soon as the 'fighting bouncers' story came out. Says to me that something else is happening with him and his mind isn't 100% on rugby. I was at the game on Saturday and the Wallabies warmed up at my end of the field. Maybe it was just my perception but he looked a bit heavier than he has in the last couple of years....if he is then that is another bad sign IMO.

Quade Cooper. If he's fit, he's in. Offence and defence 100% in. This is when legends are made and it's up to him to either step up and be the man or allow the 2011 RWC and the All Blacks to define how rugby history will remember him.

Deans has to go. I've never been a fan and was one of the happy kiwis that Henry got the AB job back after 2007.

Breakdown. I would almost tell the guys to forget about winning the game....just win the next breakdown. Forwards and backs. At every breakdown make sure there is at least one AB who remembers who you are. There has to be some pride and heart about your individual game. I reckon a lot of the kiwi backs take a lot of pride about being effective and making turnovers at the breakdown - almost as much as making line-breaks. If guys are happy with walking around after only 25mins, they're gone. Just keep going thru players until you find someone who will go and go. Even when they're f**kd. You can teach players how to tackle, how to hit the breakdown, how to maul, how to run.....you can't teach them how to have balls.

If Saturday's game is any indication of the 2012 Wallabies, I don't think you'll stay No.2 for too much longer. The forward battle won't get any easier against SA and maybe even Argentina. The piggies have to know that they are losing games for the team. THEY ARE LOSING GAMES FOR THE WALLABIES. Don't look at what the backs are doing wrong.....start hurting the oppostion forward pack. They should walk off the park with hurt souls. If you still lose - then you can start pointing the finger out the back.

So in saying that......
Higgers - gone
TPN - gone
Timani - gone
Robinson - gone
Kepu - gone

Damn shame that Pocock is injured. It may be slightly outside the box but I would start him at 6 with Hooper/Gill at 7. Takes some of the heat off Pocock without losing much in terms of pilfers. He's big enough and strong enough to play 6 and without any of the current 6's really doing a lot, Pocock's having to do too much. He could do with some help from 8 as well.

Keiran Read. Nuff said.

Didi anyone else see the little scuffle with Higgers and Mealamu in the first half? Don't know if it was shown on TV.

 

[I like to watch]

Attack is built from good defence.

When your "good defence" has limited attacking ability, what then?

Do we go for all out attack this time? Our "good defence" was too slow to realign, and overly focused on the threats posed by $BW and Nonu, and ignored the out wide twinkle toes attack options that the Darkness actually used to great effect.
.

When you have the blindside winger and the fullback running lines, if run properly always results in an unmarked winger.It's how your defensive pattern deals with this scenario that matters. This week we had KB (Kurtley Beale) on the job. it was not a systems or tactical weakness.
Bear in mind in the super 15 just gone
stats for the season show SBW
Most line breaks (1st)
most offloads (1st)
most metres gained (2nd)
most line break assists(6th)
I thought Finger handled him really well. The defensive structure was good.

 

[Scotty]

There was no overlap on the first try. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) made a poor decision to assist Fainga'a with his man leaving Dagg unmarked on the outside.

Beale then missed the tackle but the reality was that Dagg should never have been open on the wing in the first place.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) misread the situation. He didn't actually come in to help Fainga'a, he came in to take Messam (I think) who was running one in from the wing. However Messam had pretty much already passed the ball when AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) decided to come in off his wing to take him, it seemed obvious that he was only ever going to be a decoy.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I think hooper would be a bad option.
this all blacks unit has rendered an out and out fetcher useless - unless supported by a fit enough pack (which the wallabies clearly are not). pocock was nowhere to be seen on saturday and i can't see any reason to suggest that hooper would be any better.
2nd row of Sharpe and a tighter lock i.e simmons and i'd probably have timani on the bench but i would seriously look at neville who plays a great tight game (despite being a bit of a try scorer)
back row - i'd play higgers at 7, dennis at 6 and kefu (kidding)...8 is a tough one. i didn't think either higgers or samo were up to it. palu and mcalman are out. too late now for mowen. regrettably delve is welsh. on that basis i'd keep samo at 8 and remove him after 40 minutes, brining hooper on then (hoping his fresh legs will work to greater effect after half)

back line genia, cooper, ioane (he has to be unleashed more and cooper is the man to do this) barnes (can tackle, can run, can kick and can pass - great 12), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale (i'll wearily put more faith in him as i don't think he'll back that performance up with another sub par one) and mitchell
backs bench i'd have phipps (i guess...) faainga/horne and probably shipperly out of what is left.

JOC (James O'Connor) needed.

 

[Scotty]

When you have the blindside winger and the fullback running lines, if run properly always results in an unmarked winger.It's how your defensive pattern deals with this scenario that matters. This week we had KB (Kurtley Beale) on the job. it was not a systems or tactical weakness.
Bear in mind in the super 15 just gone
stats for the season show SBW
Most line breaks (1st)
most offloads (1st)
most metres gained (2nd)
most line break assists(6th)
I thought Finger handled him really well. The defensive structure was good.

Fainga'a missed an early tackle and didn't do much in attack, but I think he actually outplayed SBW. There were a few times that SBW was so pressured by the defense that he just threw the ball to no one!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ was that the one from A Finger that had more than a hint of a shoulder charge in it.

$BW sat him on his backside as he bounced off.

The value of having a $BW in your team even if he isn't doing much, is he acts as a player magnet creating unmarked players around him. Campo and Jonah Lomu in their respective prime were similar magnets. When opponents managet to shut them down, opportunities were created for their team mates outside (and inside) them.