2012 Rugby Championship Game 1 Australia vs New Zealand - 18 August

[Schadenfreude]

Cooper can use Fainga'a as an attacking player at 12. The same way he uses Harris, except heavier in contact.

Harris may even be a better 12, and can kick as well.

 

[ACR]

A couple more observations from the Stadium last night.

What is it with booing kickers when they are about to take a kick for goal?

Anthems. I think the NZ anthem was performed better than ours. Still hurting from the humiliation of Carisbrook when the Darkness used the Scandal'us Popstars Group to butcher our anthem.

I think booing has become more popular over the last 10 years or so but it will be almost impossible to stop. Maybe the increased exposure to the EPL and football fans alike have rendered some bad habits. To be perfectly honest though, I don't think yelling 'booo' is the worst kind of sportsmanship. I'm a little bit nonplussed about it. It's just the home fans verbalizing what the players already know, they want them to miss the kick. A professional sportsmen obviously shouldn't care, as long as it doesn't creep down to club rugby or heaven forbid, junior rugby. Just look at AFL games, soon as the ball goes out the camera pans to some ridiculously over hyped fan screaming abuse at the opposition or the ref, for god knows what (great but weird game). That sort of stuff is much worse. Booing your own team for performing badly is a no no as well. Disclosure: I don't boo anyone regardless.

In regards to the anthems, sheesh, I thought the NZ anthem was pretty bad actually, seemed a bit slow for the two verses. Personal opinion of course.

My favourite rendition, probably because of the occasion but still.

 

[It is what it is]

The disease process goes like this: everyone gets the shits with incumbent half back and he misses a game for the up and comer who has a screaming good game. Incumbent comes back in and everyone cant understand why as the new one plays superbly as a replacement and in s. 15. Eventually the incumbent is shown the door and for a single season the new bloke plays the house down...then everyone starts getting the shits with him and starts looking fo the replacement. The cycle repeats.
I can trace it back to Farr-Jones: everyone thought Slattery should get more games.
I've seen it with Gregan, Burgess and now Genia.
But I was really only talking about the version that Genia has, which is unique: it seems to come in waves and is not entirely related to whether we have parity in the pigs. Last night I saw symptoms that were worse than Gregan's in the end stage.

Your comments could relate to the Australian Cricket team too.

 

[Scott Allen]

Watching the replay and Timani, in particular, closely.

Honestly, the guy is a myth. An occasional big tackle or offload or clean out but he spends half his time walking. He ends up wide because he gets up so slowly and walks his way to the defensive line more times than not.

How a guy like that can get selected at this level is just beyond me. He seems to have the skill of an occasional big effort followed by a long bludge.

And the amount of posts here now defending him as deserving of a spot is making me seriously sad and just highlights how little we here in Australia appreciate and understand good forward play.

The guy is standing as wide as Higgers for most of the game for crying out loud and he is a tight head lock.

Ash

I watched Timani closely when I did an anlaysis on the game this afternoon. Your comments are all valid.

Having said that I think that's the best game I've seen him play for a long time.

Having said that his best game in a while was not good enough for test level - if you watch him in the background he was walking from early on.

The question is do we have anyone better?

I recently re-watched the Tahs v Reds game in the last round of Super Rugby to compare Timani and Simmons. Both were as bad as each other in general play - far too much walking from both. The only advantage Simmons had was his lineout work but we don't need the lineout expertise whilst Sharpe is starting.

It was interesting in that game that when Paddy Ryan got a yellow card and one of the back five needed to come off so a temporary scrum replacement could come on, it was Timani that Foley pulled off with Mumm going into the row.

I watched Douglas in that same Super Rugby game but wasn't excited about his performance either but I haven't watched enough of him to really judge.

I don't expect Deans will bring anyone in from outside the 30 man squad so choices are limited.

Simmons has to be on the bench at least so that if Sharpe gets injured we've got someone who can come on and run the lineout (and that wouldn't be Timani).

Expect the status quo will be maintained for next week - bringing someone in for a debut at Edene Park wouldn't make sense to me.

Our depth of locks with a bit of experience is really low with Horwill out.

 

[Slim 293]

2 defensive centres instead of 2 playmakers hasn't worked. That's a fact.

They just don't generate tries. Wingers are just not scoring in the corner.

Barnes till JOC (James O'Connor) comes back at 12 for me.

Barnes is one of the best defensive players in the team.

Actually, it's not a fact.

Neither method is the "correct" one. However, there aren't a lot of successful teams these days playing dual playmakers........

It's about playing the best players for the position.

But your 12 needs to be a strong ball runner, and Barnes is not that.

McCabe is solid in defence but he also creates metres in attack, and his play at 12 this year hasn't stopped the Brumbies' outside backs from scoring plenty of tries.

If he was fit, and depending on who was at 10, I would also suggest Lealiifano because he has the ability to slice through defences, and his decision making, passing, and kicking is better than Barnes.

The other potential 12 candidate from the past 12 months would be Tapuai, who is probably a more traditional 12.

Barnes is solid cover, nothing more.

Just putting it out there.......... hypothetical Wallaby backline:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Lealiifano
13. McCabe
14. Mitchell
15. Beale

 

[No4918]

Still think JOC (James O'Connor) should be 12. At least by the time we hit the 2015 RWC, he is needed elsewhere for probably the next couple of years.

Taps is probably the pick of the other options at the moment with McCabe next in line and Deans choice obviously. If Deans contract is renewed he will likely be there for the next 4 years. With McCabe at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) would be an interesting prospect at 13. With Coopers ability to throw the long pass and JOC (James O'Connor)'s ability to beat a man on the outside and set up his outside men it could be a good combination. That or Taps as a 13. Won't be surprised if McKenzie considers moving Finger back to 12 and playing Taps at 13 for Reds next year after his early form this season.

Lots of what ifs and speculation so take it FWIW. But those 3 guys would be my choices in the centres.

 

[Scotty]

Barnes and Genia offer little structure in attack, and our forwards are just as bad. Too slow to realign and offer a good option.

I would drop Robinson, TPN and Timani to the bench, Higgers too if Palu is available. In the backs, bring in Cooper damnit.

But Deans will do none of this.

Watching the forwards from the ABs, their work rate, fitness and precision is just so much better.

I would be looking at Samo for a 30 minute cameo before bringing higgers off the bench. The only guy that looked like he could match the abs physicality.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I think lealilifano if fit would have been a definite starter for the wallabies ( even maybe at 10 ahead of quade). I have said it before but I would really like JOC (James O'Connor) to be given a go at 13 at super rugby level as I feel he has all the ingredients we need to fix our centre problem. (it's not like we need him for his playmaking abilities and he can't be worse than Horne). Next time we play a minnow I would like to see experimental team of: 9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Lealifano
13. JOC (James O'Connor)
14. Mitchell/ shipperly
15. Beale

But that is in a dream world where no one is injured. But I feel for the test against the pumas quade, taps and Pyle should be bought in so we can tests the water with them

 

[Rugrat]

Deans is not the right coach for Australia, to much positive talk about the all blacks and not enough mongrel and motivation to encourage players to smash the bastards. The warratahs forwards were soft, just as they were in Super 15. Deans claims he doesnt look at team results. Well he should, those same players in the warratahs camp delivered the same crap. From a team selection point of view. Why did Deans have phipps on the bench. He offers nothing but cover for Genia, Genia played every minute of the Reds campaign and never misses a minute. You just dont replace him except due to injury and he doesnt get injured. I am sorry but Drew Mitchell has done absolutely nothing to deserve selection. Quade needed to be in the 22 and deserved an opportunity to come on as a replacement at least. If he came on with 10 minutes to go at least he would have possibly created chances and been better for it come Auckland. Thank god the ABs were rusty they would have smashed us by 40 if they were on song. Deans talks absolute drivel on camera and never gets questioned. He should be asked to justify his bullshit answers eg "Quade working his way back to fitness" bullshit! He played for a month with the reds and played club footy in Brisbane. We didnt adapt quick enough. Really What exactly did the ABs do that you and the players werent expecting?? Complete drivel. They worked the players so hard at training from all accounts and boy didnt it show in the game they were flat as. Most players in his 22 not allowed to play club footy and yet he thrashed them in training WHY??? Sack him sick of hearing his bullshit and if we are gonna lose I would rather blame it on a bunch of kiwi players than a kiwi coach.

 

[Braveheart81]

I still don't get how all the discussion is coming back to Timani and the centres and that Barnes isn't the player who should be playing 10.

I don't get how Timani is being singled out among such a mediocre forward performance. So many calling for Moore to start and Timani to be removed from the team but the reality is Moore and Simmons made no impact when they came on. Samo was the only forward reserve who really provided any impetus. The sad fact is that there aren't really any great options in any position in the forward pack.

I don't know why Hooper didn't come on. Higginbotham had a terrible test match. There was no point keeping him on in the last 20 minutes. If Hooper isn't going to come on for a dual fetching role then we may as well have had Cooper on the bench.

I think regardless of who is selected and where, we're never going to beat the All Blacks if Will Genia and Kurtley Beale have such poor games.

For all the criticisms of Deans, Timani and Horne, key players made loads of skill errors and it cost us greatly.

 

[Slim 293]

The match stats seem to indicate that Moore did about as much work in 20 minutes that TPN did in 60.........

Moore looked to get heavily involved as soon as he came on, plus with his form over the past few years he deserves to be the starting hooker.........

 

[Rugrat]

I still don't get how all the discussion is coming back to Timani and the centres and that Barnes isn't the player who should be playing 10.

I don't get how Timani is being singled out among such a mediocre forward performance. So many calling for Moore to start and Timani to be removed from the team but the reality is Moore and Simmons made no impact when they came on. Samo was the only forward reserve who really provided any impetus. The sad fact is that there aren't really any great options in any position in the forward pack.

I don't know why Hooper didn't come on. Higginbotham had a terrible test match. There was no point keeping him on in the last 20 minutes. If Hooper isn't going to come on for a dual fetching role then we may as well have had Cooper on the bench.

I think regardless of who is selected and where, we're never going to beat the All Blacks if Will Genia and Kurtley Beale have such poor games.

For all the criticisms of Deans, Timani and Horne, key players made loads of skill errors and it cost us greatly.

When the team as a whole makes heaps of mistakes who better to blame than the coach, shows that it wasnt just a player having an individual shocker. Judge the coach on the collective effort not the individual player results I say.

 

[Gnostic]

Ash

I watched Timani closely when I did an anlaysis on the game this afternoon. Your comments are all valid.

Having said that I think that's the best game I've seen him play for a long time.

Having said that his best game in a while was not good enough for test level - if you watch him in the background he was walking from early on.

The question is do we have anyone better?

I recently re-watched the Tahs v Reds game in the last round of Super Rugby to compare Timani and Simmons. Both were as bad as each other in general play - far too much walking from both. The only advantage Simmons had was his lineout work but we don't need the lineout expertise whilst Sharpe is starting.

It was interesting in that game that when Paddy Ryan got a yellow card and one of the back five needed to come off so a temporary scrum replacement could come on, it was Timani that Foley pulled off with Mumm going into the row.

I watched Douglas in that same Super Rugby game but wasn't excited about his performance either but I haven't watched enough of him to really judge.

I don't expect Deans will bring anyone in from outside the 30 man squad so choices are limited.

Simmons has to be on the bench at least so that if Sharpe gets injured we've got someone who can come on and run the lineout (and that wouldn't be Timani).

Expect the status quo will be maintained for next week - bringing someone in for a debut at Edene Park wouldn't make sense to me.

Our depth of locks with a bit of experience is really low with Horwill out.

Because Deans has selected Timani, even though serious questions were raised about his fitness (along with the other Tahs forwards) instead of blooding performers from other Super sides any of Pyle or the Brumbies boys have demonstrated better. This is just one of the ridiculous selections of Deans.

As you say the he will not select outside of the 30 so we are stuck with the unfit he selected there.

I remain more concerned however over the continuation of the lack of structure and decent game tactics that was so well highlighted by your Blog article. To further highlight this I would ask one question, despite having approx. 58% of the ball last night how many times did a Wallaby back handle twice in a movement? This to me is a indicator of players working hard off the ball to back up.

 

[Athilnaur]

There is a lot in what you say BH, but the ABs made errors too. My concern is that we again tried punching it up, without asking any meaningful questions of the defense.

 

[Braveheart81]

When the team as a whole makes heaps of mistakes who better to blame than the coach, shows that it wasnt just a player having an individual shocker. Judge the coach on the collective effort not the individual player results I say.

I don't think Deans is doing a good job, but when professional footballers are just making basic skill errors, I think it is ridiculous to blame the coach.

 

[Braveheart81]

There is a lot in what you say BH, but the ABs made errors too. My concern is that we again tried punching it up, without asking any meaningful questions of the defense.

I think the ABs could have easily scored several more tries. We were lucky to get out of that game with an 8 point loss.

 

[Ash]

I disagree entirely about Moore. Much tighter and higher work rate when he came on.

So many here are stuck in noticing a big play or carry, but I suggest you watch the players continually out the back. Timani, Higgers, and TPN are all culprits, and it just isn't acceptable at test level, particularly against the ABs who were destroying our ruck.

Simmons wasn't great either, and I wouldn't suggest him replace Timani, but in his few minutes he actually ran and played a lot tighter than Timani. He was just ineffectual too often.

Actually, Neville is my biggest hope of a TH lock to back up Horwill but it is too early in his development this year. I watched him closely in the last few Rebels game and he has a good engine on him and got involved.

Finally, the point is that the way that Timani plays the game you can't carry him in a pack with Sharpe, TPN, Higgers, and a lesser extent Kepu. Too many players who like to stand wider or take the ball up and not enough players with a big engine that do the "shit" tight grunt work continually.

Any team who will take it to our forwards will likely beat us, or make us struggle for the win until we get the pack balance right.

 

[Gnostic]

There is a lot in what you say BH, but the ABs made errors too. My concern is that we again tried punching it up, without asking any meaningful questions of the defense.

One telling stat I saw about "punching it up" was that Horne made 8 (Eight) runs for 7 (SEVEN) metres. Do they subtract for going backwards or is it just counted as a zero?

Funny thing is I can agree with Deans on one single point of his selections since the RWC, pick players to suit the game plan you want to play. Obviously he wants to play a conservative defense based game.

In that case WTF did Barnes take a quick tap in front of his posts inside his 22? WTF did they try and run the ball from their own half with a conservative defensive side? It would be naive in the extreme, espeically given Deans' media comments, that this was not the game plan. Maybe that was his big bluff, pick the proverbial lumbering brickwall and startle the ABs by running the ball?

As I posted above the fundamental flaws outlined in Scott Allen's Blog article post the Welsh series remain. Until there is some basic structure in attack and effort from players within that structure to re-align and backup then re-arranging the deck chairs by bringing in Cooper or others will make not one iota of difference to the performance of this side.

 

[Ruggo]

Our centres were not the problem, it was Barnes. Every player outside of 10 was hampered by his total inability to take the ball to the line. Retain both centres and get rid of Barnes period. Actually a Cooper and Fainga'a combination will work well.

Big ask first test at Eden Park but stuff it. Throw Douglas in along side Sharpe and let's see what he has. Tamani is just plain lazy.

 

[Bardon]

Higgers looks like he should be a good test 8, but he isn't. He is quicker and slightly bigger than Read, yet not once did I see him charging off the back of a scrum and crossing the gainline. Read charged all night. Perhaps its an attitudinal difference.

I've said before that Higgers reminds me of Andy Powell when he first came on the international scene. He has all the attributes to be an excellent back row player and 8 does look his natural position. But his upright running style means he doesn't make as many yards as his bulk would suggest. In addition with the preponderance of the choke tackle these days a guy who should be an asset can be a target for turnover ball.

Ireland used to use the choke tackle to target Powell when we played Wales and he was in the team. Would be a pity to see a guy who's got some much potential going the same way Powell has in recent years.