2011 Wallaby And Australia A Teams

[jay-c]

behind horwill and sharpe
vickerman is the best performing lock this year
(ok simmons and wykes have been good too)

 

[Slim 293]

I don't understand people picking Elsom and Vickerman sight unseen this year

People are picking Elsom for the same reason they're picking Pocock.

 

[DPK]

People are picking Elsom for the same reason they're picking Pocock.

I hate the point you're making, but damn it is solid.

 

[Hawko]

Nice one BR, had a bit of chuckle.

I think for Carter to make the Wallabies there have to be quite a few injuries, ie Barnes, Giteau, Rabbit, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Bruce did not say he would make the Wallabies. He said Carter was substantially better than Ant Fainga'a, a point with which I agree. I expect neither will make the wallabies this year, there are too many better and more favoured players in front of them.

 

[Nusadan]

I don't understand people picking Elsom and Vickerman sight unseen this year, especially Vickerman. There is a very big degree of hypocrasy regarding Vickerman. He was part of the scrum and forward pack that got reemed by England in 2007, yet Sharpe has never been forgiven.

All this is so much hot air in any event as IMO Deans had settled the RWC squad last year and very few changes will be made unless forced by injury. The exception will be Vickerman who IMO was always going to be included regardless of if he played a game. The precedent for that was set with Elsom, but at least he had the form of the H. Cup to provide evidence to justify his selection.

Given the discussion on the Salary Cap thread actions like this makes a mockery of those players who remain in Oz and sacrifice the big dollars to remain elligible. The ARU has set a bad precedent and we should not be surprised to see players leaving for the Euro and expect to come back 6 months before the RWC and walk back into the Wallabies despite the players who remained and held the fort while they were away.

To be fair to Vickerman, he is a much different case to that of Elsom, he went overseas to study, not to play rugby (at least not as a first priority), and I read somewhere here he played for Northampton as an amateur, and he should be given due consideration to the fact he will be returning in time to play few games for the Tahs before the RWC.

 

[kiap]

Award a couple promotions.


Wallaby Team:. . . . . . . . . .Australia A Team:

1. Benn Robinson . . . . . . . 1. Rodney Blake
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau . . . . . 2. James Hanson
3. James Slipper . . . . . . . . 3. Dan Palmer
4. James Horwill . . . . - . . . 4. Hugh Pyle
5. Nathan Sharpe . . . . . . . 5. Dan Vickerman
6. Rocky Elsom . . . . . . . .. 6. Jarrod Saffy
7. David Pocock . . . . -. . .. 7. Beau Robinson / Matt Hodgson
8. Wycliff Palu . . . . . . . . .. 8. Ben Mowen

9. Will Genia . . . . . . . . . .. 9. Nick Phipps
10. Quade Cooper . . . . . . .10. Berrick Barnes
11. Drew Mitchell . . . . . . . .11. Rod Davies
12. Michael Harris . . . . . . ..12. Anthony Fainga'a
13. Nick Cummins . . . . - . .13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Digby Ioane . . . . . . . ..14. Lachie Turner
15. Kurtley Beale . . . . - . ..15. Luke Morahan

16. Stephen Moore . . . - . .16. Saia Fainga'a
17. Sekope Kepu . . . . . . ..17. Ben Alexander
18. Rob Simmons . . . . . . .18. Sam Wykes
19. Radike Samo . . . . - . ..19. Ben McCalman / Dave Dennis
20. Scott Higginbotham -.-.20. Richard Kingi
21. Matt Giteau . . . .-.- . . .21. Pat McCabe
22. James O'Connor . . . . ..22. Christian Lealiifano

 

[kiap]

I wanted to encourage some new thoughts, but would like to see JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 12 and 13, in reality. I put Cummins name up because he can do the job at 13 with his running speed, strength and size (I'd like to see Stirling at his peak form and pace too). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does need to find some form, though. Brumbies should play him at 13.

Harris is a viable option at 12 and he is a genuine goal kicker, an asset that is too often under-rated. But O'Connor is the better choice with the ball in hand in normal play - He should earn that spot. I was over-rating Rabbit's goal kicking (out of hope) but he is serviceable rather than good (KB (Kurtley Beale) and QC (Quade Cooper) are no better so far TBF). Defence will be a concern too if QC (Quade Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) are at 10 and 12. The attack should be very good, though.

Took a look at the Reds approach and named some big forwards with aggression to combat the likes of SA/England. Went for a 5-2 bench. Not totally convinced by Higgenbum, TBH, but he has shown some potential. With his speed and size (and his seagulling experience) he might even be able to do a job out wide if the bench is looking bare. Both he and Samo are true lineout options. Samo hits the rucks very hard.

Giteau has to cover 9, 10, 12. The other reserve back (e.g. Cummins, Morahan, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or O'Connor) would have to cover the rest.

 

[Joe Mac]

Does no one on here think Mortlock is the form OC so far in the Aussie conference?

The Rebels have performed out of their skin this season and one of the main reasons has been Mortlock's leadership and form. You place that guy in our huge gaping 13 hole and not only do you get a proven performer but you also have a decent Wallaby captain if Elsom doesnt cut the mustard. The only eligible Australian who can smash SBW/Fruen into the dirt come the final.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) cant even get off bench for Australia's worst performing provence yet you want him starting for the wallabies?

 

[Bruce Ross]

Does no one on here think Mortlock is the form OC so far in the Aussie conference?

The Rebels have performed out of their skin this season and one of the main reasons has been Mortlock's leadership and form. You place that guy in our huge gaping 13 hole and not only do you get a proven performer but you also have a decent Wallaby captain if Elsom doesnt cut the mustard. The only eligible Australian who can smash SBW/Fruen into the dirt come the final.

Just a couple of points, Joe. Firstly it is not often that a 13 would be in position to tackle a 12. Secondly, while I think Robbie Fruean is an extraordinary talent, it is doubtful that he would be first choice 13 for the All Blacks this year.

Certainly an in form and injury-free Mortlock is exactly the sort of player you'd want for a World Cup final. But there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge before we get there.

 

[Joe Mac]

Just a couple of points, Joe. Firstly it is not often that a 13 would be in position to tackle a 12. Secondly, while I think Robbie Fruean is an extraordinary talent, it is doubtful that he would be first choice 13 for the All Blacks this year.

Certainly an in form and injury-free Mortlock is exactly the sort of player you'd want for a World Cup final. But there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge before we get there.

Point well taken Bruce but if you remember back to the autumn internationals you would remember that SBW played 13 for the AB's not 12. Secondly you would notice that fruen is playing 13 for the Crusaders this year so you would expect if is to get a run for the AB's, 13 would be his position.

Mortlock would hence be perfectly placed to "smash" into the dirt like no one else could

 

[Prodigy]

Secondly, while I think Robbie Fruean is an extraordinary talent, it is doubtful that he would be first choice 13 for the All Blacks this year.

Bruce,

Given that Conrad Smith and the Hurricanes are in pretty terrible form at the moment, who do you see as the All Black #13? IMO, Robbie Fruean is probably the best centre in NZ Rugby, alongside Richard Kahui.

Also, to keep on the right topic of this thread, I would be going for:

Benn Robinson, Tatafu Polota-Nau, James Slipper, James Horwill, Nathan Sharpe, Rocky Elsom (c), Dave Pocock, Wycliff Palu, Will Genia, Quade Cooper, Drew Mitchell, James O'Connor, Digby Ioane, Nick Cummins, Kurtley Beale.

BENCH: James Hanson, Ben Alexander, Dan Vickermann, Matt Hodgson, Nick Phipps, Berrick Barnes, Adam Ashley-Cooper

AUSTRALIA A: Ben Daley, James Hanson, Tim Fairbrother, Dean Mumm, Sam Wykes, Ben Mowen, Phil Waugh, Scott Higginbotham, Luke Burgess, Matt Giteau, Rod Davies, Mike Harris, Rob Horne (if he can get back from injury), Lachie Turner, Ben Lucas

BENCH: Nathan Charles, Sekope Kepu, Kane Douglas, Beau Robinson, Brett Sheehan, Stirling Mortlock, Cooper Vuna.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Joe and Prodigy, I'd be more than happy to see Robbie Fruean play outside centre for the All Blacks although I don't think that would be in our best interests. I just thought he might take another year to break through. I wish we had him.

 

[TOCC]

I don't understand people picking Elsom and Vickerman sight unseen this year, especially Vickerman. There is a very big degree of hypocrasy regarding Vickerman. He was part of the scrum and forward pack that got reemed by England in 2007, yet Sharpe has never been forgiven.

As for Kepu against the Crusaders, him obviously was the only player in the forward pack against the Crusaders as well. Lets look at the balance of his work this year and it has been top class, which is a direct contrast to his main competitor in Alexander.

All this is so much hot air in any event as IMO Deans had settled the RWC squad last year and very few changes will be made unless forced by injury. The exception will be Vickerman who IMO was always going to be included regardless of if he played a game. The precedent for that was set with Elsom, but at least he had the form of the H. Cup to provide evidence to justify his selection.

Given the discussion on the Salary Cap thread actions like this makes a mockery of those players who remain in Oz and sacrifice the big dollars to remain elligible. The ARU has set a bad precedent and we should not be surprised to see players leaving for the Euro and expect to come back 6 months before the RWC and walk back into the Wallabies despite the players who remained and held the fort while they were away.

Exactly, to me it's almost like playing a whole season making the finals, only to have your spot taken by a late ring in...
Wallaby selection should be a reward based on your super rugby form, not reputation.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Point well taken Bruce but if you remember back to the autumn internationals you would remember that SBW played 13 for the AB's not 12. Secondly you would notice that fruen is playing 13 for the Crusaders this year so you would expect if is to get a run for the AB's, 13 would be his position.

Mortlock would hence be perfectly placed to "smash" into the dirt like no one else could

SBW Started tests at both 12 and 13 last year. He lined up next to both Nonu and Smith.

I doubt Fruean will make it this year, still behind both Conrad and Kahui

 

[qwerty51]

Point well taken Bruce but if you remember back to the autumn internationals you would remember that SBW played 13 for the AB's not 12. Secondly you would notice that fruen is playing 13 for the Crusaders this year so you would expect if is to get a run for the AB's, 13 would be his position.

Mortlock would hence be perfectly placed to "smash" into the dirt like no one else could

SBW played 12 I'm pretty sure.

 

[bloodred]

Award a couple promotions.


Wallaby Team:. . . . . . . . . .Australia A Team:

1. Benn Robinson . . . . . . . 1. Rodney Blake
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau . . . . . 2. James Hanson
3. James Slipper . . . . . . . . 3. Dan Palmer
4. James Horwill . . . . - . . . 4. Hugh Pyle
5. Nathan Sharpe . . . . . . . 5. Dan Vickerman
6. Rocky Elsom . . . . . . . .. 6. Jarrod Saffy
7. David Pocock . . . . -. . .. 7. Beau Robinson / Matt Hodgson
8. Wycliff Palu . . . . . . . . .. 8. Ben Mowen

9. Will Genia . . . . . . . . . .. 9. Nick Phipps
10. Quade Cooper . . . . . . .10. Berrick Barnes
11. Drew Mitchell . . . . . . . .11. Rod Davies
12. Michael Harris . . . . . . ..12. Anthony Fainga'a
13. Nick Cummins . . . . - . .13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Digby Ioane . . . . . . . ..14. Lachie Turner
15. Kurtley Beale . . . . - . ..15. Luke Morahan

16. Stephen Moore . . . - . .16. Saia Fainga'a
17. Sekope Kepu . . . . . . ..17. Ben Alexander
18. Rob Simmons . . . . . . .18. Sam Wykes
19. Radike Samo . . . . - . ..19. Ben McCalman / Dave Dennis
20. Scott Higginbotham -.-.20. Richard Kingi
21. Matt Giteau . . . .-.- . . .21. Pat McCabe
22. James O'Connor . . . . ..22. Christian Lealiifano

I would have to agree with most of this but how can you put Kingi on the bench? I would have Ben Lucas there if not in the team. I rate him as a half very highly and his versatility makes him a special

 

[Slim 293]

Exactly, to me it's almost like playing a whole season making the finals, only to have your spot taken by a late ring in...
Wallaby selection should be a reward based on your super rugby form, not reputation.

Don't worry... Pocock will hopefully get a chance to prove he's good enough for the Wallabies...

 

[kiap]

Award a couple promotions.


Wallaby Team:. . . . . . . . . .Australia A Team:

1. Benn Robinson . . . . . . . 1. Rodney Blake
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau . . . . . 2. James Hanson
3. James Slipper . . . . . . . . 3. Dan Palmer
4. James Horwill . . . . - . . . 4. Hugh Pyle
5. Nathan Sharpe . . . . . . . 5. Dan Vickerman
6. Rocky Elsom . . . . . . . .. 6. Jarrod Saffy
7. David Pocock . . . . -. . .. 7. Beau Robinson / Matt Hodgson
8. Wycliff Palu . . . . . . . . .. 8. Ben Mowen

9. Will Genia . . . . . . . . . .. 9. Nick Phipps
10. Quade Cooper . . . . . . .10. Berrick Barnes
11. Drew Mitchell . . . . . . . .11. Rod Davies
12. Michael Harris . . . . . . ..12. Anthony Fainga'a
13. Nick Cummins . . . . - . .13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Digby Ioane . . . . . . . ..14. Lachie Turner
15. Kurtley Beale . . . . - . ..15. Luke Morahan

16. Stephen Moore . . . - . .16. Saia Fainga'a
17. Sekope Kepu . . . . . . ..17. Ben Alexander
18. Rob Simmons . . . . . . .18. Sam Wykes
19. Radike Samo . . . . - . ..19. Ben McCalman / Dave Dennis
20. Scott Higginbotham -.-.20. Ben Lucas / Richard Kingi
21. Matt Giteau . . . .-.- . . .21. Pat McCabe
22. James O'Connor . . . . ..22. Christian Lealiifano

I would have to agree with most of this but how can you put Kingi on the bench? I would have Ben Lucas there if not in the team. I rate him as a half very highly and his versatility makes him a special

Good point. I forgot about him and was scouting around for a name that didn't have the initials L.B. I should have just reversed 'em to get B.L. He definitely did a great job in Genia's place last year. That chase down and tackle in goal on the weekend against Kirchner which forced a 5m scrum and a try should have reminded me.

 

[kiap]

Bruce,

Given that Conrad Smith and the Hurricanes are in pretty terrible form at the moment, who do you see as the All Black #13? IMO, Robbie Fruean is probably the best centre in NZ Rugby, alongside Richard Kahui.

Also, to keep on the right topic of this thread, I would be going for:

Benn Robinson, Tatafu Polota-Nau, James Slipper, James Horwill, Nathan Sharpe, Rocky Elsom (c), Dave Pocock, Wycliff Palu, Will Genia, Quade Cooper, Drew Mitchell, James O'Connor, Digby Ioane, Nick Cummins, Kurtley Beale.

BENCH: James Hanson, Ben Alexander, Dan Vickermann, Matt Hodgson, Nick Phipps, Berrick Barnes, Adam Ashley-Cooper

AUSTRALIA A: Ben Daley, James Hanson, Tim Fairbrother, Dean Mumm, Sam Wykes, Ben Mowen, Phil Waugh, Scott Higginbotham, Luke Burgess, Matt Giteau, Rod Davies, Mike Harris, Rob Horne (if he can get back from injury), Lachie Turner, Ben Lucas

BENCH: Nathan Charles, Sekope Kepu, Kane Douglas, Beau Robinson, Brett Sheehan, Stirling Mortlock, Cooper Vuna.

Prodigy, you've got James Hanson in there twice (bench and Aus A). No love for Moore?

 

[Hawko]

Award a couple promotions.


Wallaby Team:. . . . . . . . . .Australia A Team:

1. Benn Robinson . . . . . . . 1. Rodney Blake
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau . . . . . 2. James Hanson
3. James Slipper . . . . . . . . 3. Dan Palmer
4. James Horwill . . . . - . . . 4. Hugh Pyle
5. Nathan Sharpe . . . . . . . 5. Dan Vickerman
6. Rocky Elsom . . . . . . . .. 6. Jarrod Saffy
7. David Pocock . . . . -. . .. 7. Beau Robinson / Matt Hodgson
8. Wycliff Palu . . . . . . . . .. 8. Ben Mowen

9. Will Genia . . . . . . . . . .. 9. Nick Phipps
10. Quade Cooper . . . . . . .10. Berrick Barnes
11. Drew Mitchell . . . . . . . .11. Rod Davies
12. Michael Harris . . . . . . ..12. Anthony Fainga'a
13. Nick Cummins . . . . - . .13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Digby Ioane . . . . . . . ..14. Lachie Turner
15. Kurtley Beale . . . . - . ..15. Luke Morahan

16. Stephen Moore . . . - . .16. Saia Fainga'a
17. Sekope Kepu . . . . . . ..17. Ben Alexander
18. Rob Simmons . . . . . . .18. Sam Wykes
19. Radike Samo . . . . - . ..19. Ben McCalman / Dave Dennis
20. Scott Higginbotham -.-.20. Richard Kingi
21. Matt Giteau . . . .-.- . . .21. Pat McCabe
22. James O'Connor . . . . ..22. Christian Lealiifano

There are a number of serious problems with your team:

• Despite having a 5:2 bench you have no replacement if Pocock is injured but two replacement 6's. This is seriously unbalanced.
• Samo is playing well but he's still a marginal selection for the Reds. You reckon he and Higgers are better than McCalman?
• Michel Harris has played a couple of full games at 12 in Super Rugby and you want to elevate him to 12 over JOC (James O'Connor). Maybe his kicking's better but he is totally untested at this level. Let's see this weekend when he's up against a good defensive 12 - I am assuming if he gets beaten this weekend 1-1 you won't elevate Carter to this spot?
• Nick Cummins is currently the second choice 13 at the Force, whose backline has been a damp squib all year. Selectors are supposed to pick on form not on hope.
• There is no one on the reserves bench who can play 13. D'Oh
• Rodney Blake can't win a starting spot at the Rebels but makes Australia A? Just because his nickname is Rodzilla doesn't entitle him to a start; and given that you have Palmer at 3 (with which I agree) you have two potplants in the pack. Everyone else is going to have to work bloody hard to cover. Daley or Alexander would be significantly better, though they are not good enough in the scrum to make the first team.
• Pyle over the season has not out-performed Wykes. One lucky intercept and he's a hero.
• Hodgson should be the reserve 6/7 in the firsts. His form this year is outstanding, continuing his stellar play for the last two years.
• Clearly you don't like Burgess.
• Dennis has been better than Saffy this year. Saffy needs at least another year in Shute/Super before he's elevated.
• No place for Horne, you obviously think he's not repairable. He was the best 13 in Oz before the recurrence of his elbow injury. No place for Mortlock either despite his good form for the Rebels.
• Lealiifano?? Not on current form.