Sydney Subbies 2025

[The Ghost of Bernie]

Sounds like you have the perfect amount of colts for 1 colts team.

Hit. Nail. Head.

 

[Dean Mumms Dadd]

Based on recent revelations, this is how I see the divisions shaking out this year:


Div 2



St Pats

UNSW

Petersham

Briars

Forest

Sydney Irish



Div 3



Epping

Hills

Sydney Harlequins

Beecroft

Merrylands

Sydney Harbour

Hawkesbury Valley

Penrith

Knox

Old Barker

Lane Cove Old Ignatians

Hornsby



Div 4



Western Raptors

Canterbury

Renegades

Wakehurst

Chatswood

Redfield

Kings

Blacktown


Div 2 is pretty obvious with a relegated forest and a recently announced promotion for Sydney Irish. After the Beecroft debacle last year, I’m sure Subbies have made sure they can put out at least 3 grades comfortably.

Div 3 in turn, becomes a 12 team division with Epping, Hills and Beecroft joining from Div 2 and Hornsby coming up from Div 4 which they have confirmed on socials. Penrith is a bit of an assumption but they have indicated a desire to enter at Div 3 previously. Not sure if they’ve managed to get colts off the ground.

Div 4 would ideally stay at 8 clubs in that case, hopefully Kings will give two grades another crack this year and have a bit more success and numbers than last year. I had to pick a club to move up from Div 5 last year and most likely would be Blacktown. They had plenty of numbers last year and would likely be keen to get two grades on the park.

I’ll probably end up wrong but who cares, I just want to see some draws to get me hyped for this year.

Where does Lindfield end up in all this? Div 5/6?

 

[Pfitzy]

Looks like the pub is open early...

 

[Pfitzy]

Basically from the split it appears that we will have two colts sides, along with the two grade sides. How that will work I'm not sure. Whether one side plays as a Halligans colts side I don't know but it's not a bad problem to have. Ideally you want to have the club all play together but for everyone to get a game there may have to be some separation.

Not to be presumptuous, but I've got a set of Colts jerseys that have never been used and a desire to play Division 3

Our rego is only $150 as well!

 

[Mad Monday]

Looks like the pub is open early...

I'm down for a beer!

 

[Mad Monday]

Where does Lindfield end up in all this? Div 5/6?

Can I have what you're smoking?

 

[Crashy]

Congrats to Old Barker who got the chocolates today. They have some huge and skilful units running around in colts this year.

Great to see the colts rebuild underway.

 

[Heavyd]

Redfield looking stronger this year. I’d suggest Eastwood colts and grade are going to be in all sorts.

 

[Pfitzy]

Redfield looking stronger this year

They had a hideous injury toll last year.

 

[Crashy]

Heavyd - may I ask who the fuck is your photo?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Redfield looking stronger this year. I’d suggest Eastwood colts and grade are going to be in all sorts.

Though running out 4 grades vs Randwick and a combined 3/4s Colts for the trial this weekend so looks like there numbers have rebounded.

 

[The ultimate ressie]

If the division talk is true
Could this be the first time a club wins two premierships but gets relegated? (Epping)
Nothing against the club itself

 

[Here To Do]

It would make me a fool since I proudly declared "reports of Epping's demise have been greatly exaggerated" on the Grand Final call - on one hand, you could argue that would "shaft" them somewhat but, on the other, not fielding a 1st Grade due to lack of numbers and then fielding a 4th Grade isn't a good look. A very odd situation at Somerville since pre-season 2024.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

You were a fan of the move last year. I wonder if everyone would still have such an issue if Epping had of lost every game last year.
There’s a lot of clubs struggling this year, I wonder if you’d ask the Div 2 clubs this year wether they’d like a 6 team comp or a club fielding lower grades which one they’d go for.

I think if Subbies/Rugby don’t embrace some change/innovation around how they do things then we will die out pretty quickly. We are seeing less and less teams being able to compete with the top end of town, what happens if someone has a year like Drummoyne did a few years ago? What happens if Div 2 next year is 4 teams?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Rather than bashing the struggling clubs this year why don’t we use the forum to help grow and come up with ideas how we can make Subbies as big as it was when I joined 20 years ago. Times and people have changed and we aren’t keeping up

 

[Here To Do]

Rather than bashing the struggling clubs this year why don’t we use the forum to help grow and come up with ideas how we can make Subbies as big as it was when I joined 20 years ago. Times and people have changed and we aren’t keeping up

For me, this would be the sweet spot:

Div 1: Minimum 4 senior grades and Colts - optional Sutherland 5ths, Halligans 6ths or lower, or 2nd Colts
Div 2: Minimum 3 senior grades and Colts - optional Richardson 4ths
Div 3: Minimum 2 senior grades - must also field either a 3rd XV or Colts
Div 4: 1st Grade and either a 2nd XV or Colts
Div 5: 1st Grade only - Halligans/Radford encouraged but completely optional

I personally think this would be relatively achievable, but the struggle would be how you enforce this in pre-season. Asking players to register 3 months minimum prior to kickoff is a tough ask, and then how do you assess each club's ability to field x amount of players consistently?

Could you assess the grades as a minimum of 15 registered players (e.g. a club with 30 senior players = 2 grades but 31 = 3?) or is there a better system? What happens if a club is initially qualified for a certain division but then fails to meet the requirements during the season?

Obviously, on-field performance is a big driver for where a club can be placed but I think the clubs that can field more sides should be rewarded with more opportunities.

You could also look at the makeup of the Divs as a whole - I'm not sure, particularly at the top end, that 8:8 will be achievable without serious struggles as we saw last year in the short term. 7:7 can work as you essentially are running that same structure (with the "8th" team in each Div being a bye) for a 14 round season - obviously, 1 team is either an unlucky loser or a lucky winner depending on where clubs fall when Subbies reveals the 2025 divisions, for example.

We should also look at what happened in 2021(? - my memory is a bit foggy) when we had the merged Div Two-Three comp. Now it seems that there are problems a level above that where it becomes hard to separate certain clubs while making an equally-sized top-two divs. Could you return to a larger Div One as in the past while not completely killing the lower divisions?

It's a tough spot to be in for administrators and the clubs themselves. The one saving grace is that we're not beholden to television rightsholders who need exactly x amount of games in high rating spots to sell advertising. We can move things around if need be.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I guess the question that is even harder to answer is the position Epping was in last year. How do you deem a player is skilled enough to play in the First XV? Look at the slide of clubs from higher divisions in previous years like Kings, Redfield Barker, St Ives etc. There first grades coped cricket scores week in week out cause they only had 15 players which for me would be a reason why they loose even more players.

Would Penrith have been able to survive if they didn’t have to come up against the powerful 1st grade clubs and could of built on numbers and resources in lower grades

 

[Here To Do]

I guess the question that is even harder to answer is the position Epping was in last year. How do you deem a player is skilled enough to play in the First XV?

That's a club decision IMO but if they were struggling for numbers I get it - no point fielding a 1st grade side when those blokes have backed up from 3s and 2s.

Once they started fielding a 4th grade though it was a different story for me

 

[Prodigy]

I guess the question that is even harder to answer is the position Epping was in last year. How do you deem a player is skilled enough to play in the First XV? Look at the slide of clubs from higher divisions in previous years like Kings, Redfield Barker, St Ives etc. There first grades coped cricket scores week in week out cause they only had 15 players which for me would be a reason why they loose even more players.

Would Penrith have been able to survive if they didn’t have to come up against the powerful 1st grade clubs and could of built on numbers and resources in lower grades

But it wasn’t just a first grade issue, it was a continuation that filtered through the grades.

at the start of the season, we didn’t have 20 guys capable of playing first grade. We might have had 20 with the ability but commitments meant otherwise.
And when we didn’t have that, we knew it meant we didn’t have the next 15 for second grade and so on.
We got lucky with some player availability at the right times and a double points game against UNSW in the last round happened at the right time with guys wanting a run.
Other than a good win over Uni in the minor semi, our Stockdale team won by one point.
Our Blunt squad won two games.
Our Richardson squad had some good players who had to play early due to other commitments.

I guess we were lucky that I knew what our player base was and was realistic. We worked hard with Subbies (albeit late) to find the right result.
Any other plans for 2024 might have seen the end of the club.

 

[Pfitzy]

I said above we're probably at the point where - except in rare circumstances - we have about a dozen "big" clubs, and everyone else.

I've previously plumped for the Country Rugby model where you fit in the grades you have to a 3-Grade competition.

I am now of the opinion that system probably won't work.

Speaking to smaller clubs, the 3:15PM kickoff is why they only have one Grade - getting more players ther earlier is not a possibility for them. If people can't play later on a Saturday, they probably just won't play.

Maybe a situation where enough clubs can play into the evening works, but the lighting requirements might be the issue there, as well as people wanting to head back to their lives.