Why the hatred towards rugby league

[Up the Guts]

Too serious? Or self respect?

I don't think taking the piss out of yourself necessarily translates to a lack of self-respect. Have we ever had a rugby show capable of laughing at the game?

 

[Slim 293]

I don't think taking the piss out of yourself necessarily translates to a lack of self-respect. Have we ever had a rugby show capable of laughing at the game?

I don't disagree.......... just my own personal commentary on the Matty John's Show.

 

[Derpus]

I don't think taking the piss out of yourself necessarily translates to a lack of self-respect. Have we ever had a rugby show capable of laughing at the game?

Having Matty Johns as one of your primary figures says something, though. That bloke has a done a few things....

 

[PhilClinton]

Having Matty Johns as one of your primary figures says something, though. That bloke has a done a few things..

I'd much sooner follow Matty Johns into battle than I would Phil Kearns or Greg Martin, who I believe you'd classify as some of the primary figures in Australian rugby.

 

[RedsHappy]

Sorry, mate, that is just a load of bilge. Who is supposed to "take it on the chin and own up"? Me? You? All the many supporters of the game, those of us who played it and watch it and love it, warts and all? What should I own up to? Do you have anything to own up to? Who are you characterising in your statement "we attack.."? Me? You? All the many supporters of the game? Including, by the way a lot of ex-players who have put, and continue to put, a lot of work into running it, supporting it, usually for little or no reward?

What are the positive things that we should do, after we take it on the chin? Be specific, please.

1. I won't deal with the personal tone except to note that you and I are in intellectually different and competing camps on these core issues. Always were, always will be. I think Aust rugby requires massive, deep, all-levels reform. You consistently fend off critique of the code's leadership and governance and inner cultures and often seek to marginalise or rebut the value of contributions stating that major reform of it is urgently required, or simply state that 'nothing meaningful can be done, it is all inevitable and no one's fault'. You are by no means alone and I fully respect your rights and voice but you could IMO do a better job of respecting, and considering, that of others.

2. Re the 'positive things we should do'? Like others here and no doubt not as well as they, I have articulated (in various threads) over many years posting here positive and active steps that should be taken to radically reform and rebuild Aust rugby, essentially:

- (a) radically reform the type and form of governance system we have (this is crucial), RA and the local RUs needs deep reformation at almost all levels; surely in 2019 and into 2020, this is now blindingly obvious​

- (b) seek out and retain a far broader type of board member than has been rugby's traditional and typically inbred purpose and type​

- (c) radically reduce the total Aust-rugby-managing cost base, and centralise the operations of administering and governing the code here, and where possible divert freed-up $s to coaching and player development at all levels (and drop totally failed yet potentially expensive or resource consuming areas like the Mens' 7s program, NRC, etc)​

- (d) RA's 'high performance unit' is a laughable oxymoron based on its results and requires radical change​

- (e) cut back the number of pro teams we have to be determined in resulting number principally by our ability to provide adequate pro in depth coaching for them so as to ensure those remaining can deliver a positive, skilful standard of entertaining rugby with a sustainable fan base​

- (f) scrap SuperRugby and most of SANZAAR and design a largely domestic pro comp linked to known tribal parameters of support​

- (g) drop totally the existing Foxtel-type media rights model and launch a self-originated, self-produced streaming service controlled by, and in the interests of, 'total rugby' here in Australia and that is far more attractively presented that anything Foxtel has delivered in recent years​

- (h) forcibly tell WR (World Rugby) they can chose between (a) allowing the game to wither and die here one of its oldest heartlands, or (b) allowing, or tolerating, elements of Law reform for Aust market conditions that make the version played here faster with more continuous flow of actual game time vs endless stoppages and arcane technicalities​

​

If we do all (or even most) of the above - and maybe plenty more that others here have wisely identified - we can reverse the self-suiciding path we are on.

 

[Adam84]

U
Read the article peter Knox union and league merge.

Count the respect and the comments you will find a lot more hate from union.

Like not liking one game for whatever reason is fine, but there are comments about the fans..

Likewise read any article about the likes of Vunivalu, Latrell etc switching codes and the comments in there, or any time there’s an article about rugby doing something successful, it brings out the critics from the other code. there are passionate fans both side who make ridiculous comments

I’m not sure what your point is, are you trying to suggest that league fans don’t make derogatory comments about other codes?

 

[Derpus]

I'd much sooner follow Matty Johns into battle than I would Phil Kearns or Greg Martin, who I believe you'd classify as some of the primary figures in Australian rugby.

You must have a very liberal view on crooks or are otherwise unaware of Matty Johns past to hold this opinion.

 

[PhilClinton]

You must have a very liberal view on crooks or are otherwise unaware of Matty Johns past to hold this opinion.

I'm not proposing we give him a sainthood. Was more a tongue in cheek comment as in this context I'm referring to their entertainment value, of which Kearns and Marto have zilch.

 

[Dan54]

This is the key to the 'rivalry'. If you asked me to go and attend a live viewing of whatever the rugby discussion show on Fox is, I'd be no chance of going. But if you asked if I wanted to go along and watch Matty Johns, Fletch and Hindy talk shit about league players behind thinly viewed drug jokes for an hour, I'd be keen.

The NRL have been able to a create an entertaining product that extends well beyond the 80mins the players are on the field, and I think Rugby has struggled to do that for quite some time, for a example read through these forums and nearly every commentator/expert talking about Super Rugby is universally hated by people on this site, and we're supposed to be the fans.

And here is probably why I am seen as an oddity, I follow rugby union because I love the game, I think you maybe right NRL has got the TV audience in Australia, but could be why it will struggle around the world, where many people watch the sport (and I not saying it everywhere) and not the commentators. It almost like a reality show type thing I think, and I say good on anyone who enjoy their sport, not because of the sport but because of the people on TV.
I know I an old fart, but sport to me is something I enjoy generally a lot more being there. I personally think it a sad commentary on the world we live in that what looks good on our tv screen is more important than what is actually happening!

 

[Derpus]

The Footy Show certainly had the audience. I don't think any league chat shows these days are anywhere near as popular. Shit i watched it as a kid even after the Bears disappeared and my old man stopped giving a fuck about league. But the point is less relevant these days.

Also - i reckon Hoiles, Mitchell etc have the personalities to do something similar. Their WC podcast was pretty entertaining and they didn't even need thinly veiled drug jokes.

 

[PhilClinton]

I know I an old fart, but sport to me is something I enjoy generally a lot more being there. I personally think it a sad commentary on the world we live in that what looks good on our tv screen is more important than what is actually happening!

Yep and for better or worse, the modern games, across all codes and sports, really are being tailored to suit the viewer at home. More angles to choose from, multiple commentary teams to pick, sponsors being able to digitally change their logos on the field/court without having to use actual paint, even what Fox League are doing with these virtual crowd noises for the NRL is pretty cool.

I'm not trying to discredit attending actual games, but its pretty clear that the focus of the product at the moment, even pre-COVID, is providing the at home viewer with premium entertainment and the NRL are definitely providing the best product in Australia at the moment in that regard.

 

[Derpus]

Yep and for better or worse, the modern games, across all codes and sports, really are being tailored to suit the viewer at home. More angles to choose from, multiple commentary teams to pick, sponsors being able to digitally change their logos on the field/court without having to use actual paint, even what Fox League are doing with these virtual crowd noises for the NRL is pretty cool.

I'm not trying to discredit attending actual games, but its pretty clear that the focus of the product at the moment, even pre-COVID, is providing the at home viewer with premium entertainment and the NRL are definitely providing the best product in Australia at the moment in that regard.

I mean, only if you like League. The core of the product is still the actual game.

 

[Dan54]

Yep and for better or worse, the modern games, across all codes and sports, really are being tailored to suit the viewer at home. More angles to choose from, multiple commentary teams to pick, sponsors being able to digitally change their logos on the field/court without having to use actual paint, even what Fox League are doing with these virtual crowd noises for the NRL is pretty cool.

I'm not trying to discredit attending actual games, but its pretty clear that the focus of the product at the moment, even pre-COVID, is providing the at home viewer with premium entertainment and the NRL are definitely providing the best product in Australia at the moment in that regard.

Yep , no argument at all mate, but I think it is such a sad commentary on where we are.
I also agree with Derpus, you still have to have a core product.

 

[Silverado]

I mean, only if you like League. The core of the product is still the actual game.

Therein lies the problem. NRL is happening now, AFL starts next week and we still don't know what's going on in my game apart from a piecemeal domestic comp. There really is no product apart from the Wallabies at the moment. I have FOX and watch NRL 360 for the informative stuff and Matty Johns show for the more light entertainment (I find it immensely funny, especially compared to the Footy show which was just an AFL rip off and blokes wearing dresses.) Even before the COVID problem, we only had Kick and Chase which was neither here nor there and got canned by FOX due to bad ratings. Rugby.com is shedding staff too. I like both codes, but Rugby is rapidly becoming invisible I find it pretty disturbing

 

[wamberal]

I like both codes, but Rugby is rapidly becoming invisible I find it pretty disturbing

Our principal strength as a code is our international dimension. At a time like this, an international dimension is actually a drawback. Any conceivable "national" rugby competition will get very little free publicity, and if a purely domestic competition manages to get some airing on FTA it will be on a back channel.

Both NRL and AFL are built on what were very strong NSW (in the former case) and Victorian, domestic competitions. The core strength of their national competitions are clubs that have been around, with big followings, for 100 years, or the best part thereof.

Absent a strong international dimension, I reckon the only thing that would save us as a serious professional domestic code would be private money.

 

[papabear]

Likewise read any article about the likes of Vunivalu, Latrell etc switching codes and the comments in there, or any time there’s an article about rugby doing something successful, it brings out the critics from the other code. there are passionate fans both side who make ridiculous comments

I’m not sure what your point is, are you trying to suggest that league fans don’t make derogatory comments about other codes?

Not at all, being more involved in league culture I understand where league comes from. I was involved in public school union then a tiny bit of private school union as a teenager is my experience with union culture.

Obviously, both sides prefer there game and find the other game less entertaining, thats fine and human nature. However, in terms of a threat in sydney and australia, league gets more threatened by AFL for its tv dollar and sporting landscape... with its juniors it seems to be a personal thing, but as far as I can see the greatest threat to league is either a - kids doing nothing or b - soccer.

Union on the other hand seems solely concerned with not even the threat of league more just about throwing stones at it, like its an old fun past time, to bash on league. Even though league isnt converting union fans or juniors (look at the north sydney RL comp or the three clubs in the eastern suburbs).. meanwhile AFL has gotten inside GPS / CAS schools (something impossible for league to ever achieve even though realisitically, it would provide more sporting opportunities and transferrable skills for the union kids.. most people on this site, if you did a poll would semi follow the swans or some other AFL team but not a league side.

Although, from my experience in league circles, there would be more union watched by league people then AFL, just due to the physicality and commonality of union.

In another context, I am sure that if i was a kids afl coach I could get heaps more of my kids friends (who play union) to come and play with him on a weekend both because its on sunday and also because there is no underlying issue but getting a lot of kids to give league a try has nothing to do with the physicality of it, more so the ingrained perception of hate towards league.

This all circles back to my original question, why the hatred of league by union people.

Also this might not be the right audience, because there is a lot of hard core union and sports fans here who have a bit more appreciation for both codes, but the follow up question would then be, if you were coaching a junior league team how would you approach conversations with parents of union kids (or north shore kids in general regardless of sporting affiliation soccer or whatever) to give league a try (not in competition against union, but only when times allow).

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Also - i reckon Hoiles, Mitchell etc have the personalities to do something similar. Their WC podcast was pretty entertaining and they didn't even need thinly veiled drug jokes.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds9cwXPP74cvh-a_gjP8GQ

Chech out The ONLY Rugby Show on youtube with Mitchell, Hoiles, Maloney and Lou Ransom keeping them inline. It has been running for three weeks now.

 

[Adam84]

Not at all, being more involved in league culture I understand where league comes from. I was involved in public school union then a tiny bit of private school union as a teenager is my experience with union culture.

Obviously, both sides prefer there game and find the other game less entertaining, thats fine and human nature. However, in terms of a threat in sydney and australia, league gets more threatened by AFL for its tv dollar and sporting landscape. with its juniors it seems to be a personal thing, but as far as I can see the greatest threat to league is either a - kids doing nothing or b - soccer.

Union on the other hand seems solely concerned with not even the threat of league more just about throwing stones at it, like its an old fun past time, to bash on league. Even though league isnt converting union fans or juniors (look at the north sydney RL comp or the three clubs in the eastern suburbs).. meanwhile AFL has gotten inside GPS / CAS schools (something impossible for league to ever achieve even though realisitically, it would provide more sporting opportunities and transferrable skills for the union kids.. most people on this site, if you did a poll would semi follow the swans or some other AFL team but not a league side.

Although, from my experience in league circles, there would be more union watched by league people then AFL, just due to the physicality and commonality of union.

In another context, I am sure that if i was a kids afl coach I could get heaps more of my kids friends (who play union) to come and play with him on a weekend both because its on sunday and also because there is no underlying issue but getting a lot of kids to give league a try has nothing to do with the physicality of it, more so the ingrained perception of hate towards league.

This all circles back to my original question, why the hatred of league by union people.

Also this might not be the right audience, because there is a lot of hard core union and sports fans here who have a bit more appreciation for both codes, but the follow up question would then be, if you were coaching a junior league team how would you approach conversations with parents of union kids (or north shore kids in general regardless of sporting affiliation soccer or whatever) to give league a try (not in competition against union, but only when times allow).

Why do some league fans make derogatory comments about union, because they’re passionate about what they support and anyone armed with a keyboard these days can say what they like.

I’m not entirely sure what the answer is that your looking for, the answer applies to any fan who thinks they’re code is the best and makes offensive comments towards them other. League, union, afl... they’re all the same

 

[wamberal]

Union on the other hand seems solely concerned with not even the threat of league more just about throwing stones at it, like its an old fun past time, to bash on league.

That is a sweeping generalisation. It might be your personal experience, but that does mean that "rugby union is solely concerned with throwing stones" - it means that this is what you have observed in your interactions.

if you were coaching a junior league team how would you approach conversations with parents of union kids (or north shore kids in general regardless of sporting affiliation soccer or whatever) to give league a try (not in competition against union, but only when times allow).

You would have to have a friendship or at least some kind of relationship with parents, and gradually let them know that you are involved in coaching league. Maybe this is just my experience, but junior league is much more cutthroat and competitive than rugby? This would not appeal to everybody. But the best way to get kids to play another code is for them to have friends who play that code. Not much you can do to foster that.

 

[Derpus]

League seems a much less youth friendly game - where do you stick the fat, short or skinny kids?