Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[half]

Are these World Series games being streamed?

From the Roar, whole article on how to stream their matches.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/05/04/live-stream-western-force-matches-world-series-rugby/

This is The Roar’s full World Series Rugby live stream guide so you don’t miss a match.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I assume for a lot of these games this is due diligence and dress rehearsal for potential entrants for next years Indo Pacific comp. Fiji warriors gave a big tick as you saw their flair and how competitive they are as an amateur team. Just imagine how competitive they will be as a professional unit able to retain their best talent then see them all leave for overseas. A professional Fiji side got to be a major drawcard for Twiggyball.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I assume for a lot of these games this is due diligence and dress rehearsal for potential entrants for next years Indo Pacific comp. Fiji warriors gave a big tick as you saw their flair and how competitive they are as an amateur team. Just imagine how competitive they will be as a professional unit able to retain their best talent then see them all leave for overseas. A professional Fiji side got to be a major drawcard for Twiggyball.

I actually had a very similar thought to this watching last night. I'll be willing to bet the Japanese Top League side will be the Wild Knights. They were said to have ambitions toward bidding for Super Rugby before the whole mess. Could see them looking at this as a good alternative.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Maybe all us Super Rugby supporters of oz teams hope RA dumps us from Super Rugby - so we can then join Twiggyball.....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I actually had a very similar thought to this watching last night. I'll be willing to bet the Japanese Top League side will be the Wild Knights. They were said to have ambitions toward bidding for Super Rugby before the whole mess. Could see them looking at this as a good alternative.

Yeh WCR if you look at all the non Super Rugby teams involved in WSR they all make some sense as potential twiggy ball entrants. HK has the commercial muscle and suitable playing stock to develop to next level (reasonably high in world rankings compared to other minnows), Japan team is an absolute must have (commercially and also able to compete at this level), Tonga and Samoa - well latter have fan appeal - commercials I worry about but gees would be good if Tonga and Samoa were offered teams as would be great for developing the game in Pacific Islands given such talent that is lost to league etc.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yeh WCR if you look at all the non Super Rugby teams involved in WSR they all make some sense as potential twiggy ball entrants. HK has the commercial muscle and suitable playing stock to develop to next level (reasonably high in world rankings compared to other minnows), Japan team is an absolute must have (commercially and also able to compete at this level), Tonga and Samoa - well latter have fan appeal - commercials I worry about but gees would be good if Tonga and Samoa were offered teams as would be great for developing the game in Pacific Islands given such talent that is lost to league etc.

If Samoa and/or Tonga get a run I can see it in the form of a combined side. Not sure where it would be based though. Possibly somewhere here. Hong Kong actually has a fledgling pro 15s set up as wll.

 

[chibimatty]

Would love it if Teikyo University said "bugger it!" and created a professional old boys club, now that would have some WSR potential right there!

Wouldn't mind seeing a combined Kyushu franchise if possible, or if any of the Nippon Pro Yakyuu Baseball clubs would be interested in opening a rugby division.

 

[dru]

If Samoa and/or Tonga get a run I can see it in the form of a combined side. Not sure where it would be based though. Possibly somewhere here. Hong Kong actually has a fledgling pro 15s set up as wll.

The problem with Fiji, Tonga and Samoa going professional is that they are not in economies capable of generating the revenue required for a professional team. That means funds coming out of general revenue and less for everyone else. Comp would need to be a commercial cracker to be successful enough to cover this.

 

[kiap]

The problem with Fiji, Tonga and Samoa going professional is that they are not in economies capable of generating the revenue required for a professional team. That means funds coming out of general revenue and less for everyone else. Comp would need to be a commercial cracker to be successful enough to cover this.

Tonga and Samoa, yeah … I think it's a hard ask.

Fiji, with nearly five times the population of Samoa, I would give more credence to regarding running a pro side.

But perhaps (as has been reported) World Rugby funding the smaller two nations to enter a team in the likes of the NRC could be an option for them.

 

[dru]

Fiji GDP/capita running at $4,400US.
Australia GDP/capita $50,000US
New Zealand GDP/capita $40,000US

Saying 5x population of Samoa may as well say 5x population of diddle squat.

It's not putting these guys down, just realising that the funds would have to come from outside the country as little will logically be generated internally.

 

[kiap]

Fiji GDP/capita running at $4,400 US.
Australia GDP/capita $50,000 US
New Zealand GDP/capita $40,000 US

South Africa GDP/capita $5,200 US

This is not the measure you are looking for.

Cheeky of me, yes, and I used a slightly tweaked version of the case you're putting forward here to impugn Samoa's case a while back but these sorts of numbers are only general indicators.

GDP per capita doesn't necessarily rule teams out.

Of course, they'll still need to tick plenty of boxes (show me the money) to get in, but if any of the PIs can, it's Fiji.

We shouldn't get too haughty either, IMO - don't forget that Super Rugby crowds are now testing the 10k floor (and so are many of the Foxtel ratings).

 

[Micheal]

With a revenue sharing model similar to what Half proposed (and is apparently utilised by the NFL? NBA?) a Fiji team and a joint Tonga / Samoa team could be viable purely from the ticket sales generated by PI expats alone.

If you’ve ever attended the Gold Coast 7s (now Sydney 7s) or any sort of Rugby game with a high Islander representation, you’ll see that PI expats come out in hordes to support their fellow nationals, and since they earn developed country wages, they can afford developed country prices.

Does anybody have any info around PI expats in Japan, Western Australia, Hong Kong etc? Would this be the same?

Sure you might sell cheaper tickets in Tonga, but this could be offset by more tickets sold for a Western Sydney based franchise, and in a shared revenue system, this could be beneficial.

You’re then opening the game up to greater broadcast audiences etc as well.

Finally, you have vested interests from several bodies for their involvement. World Rugby would want to expand the game in the Pacific Islands, especially given leagues snooping in the areas, and involvement in the competition could lead to greater tourism / commercial development within the area, and from this you could leverage government or NGO funds.

Nothing is ever impossible Anything but Super Rugby, and the involvement of the major Asian rugby nations (Japan, HK, Sri Lanka & China at a pinch) and the Pacific Islands (Fiji, Tonga, Samoa) would give Twiggyball some serious legitimacy.

 

[dru]

South Africa GDP/capita $5,200 US

This is not the measure you are looking for.

Cheeky of me, yes, but I used a slightly tweaked version of the case your putting forward here to impugn Samoa's case a while back but these sorts of numbers are only general indicators.

GDP per capita doesn't necessarily rule teams out.

Of course, they'll still need to tick plenty of boxes (show me the money) to get in, but if any of the PIs can, it's Fiji.

We shouldn't get too haughty either, IMO - let's not forget that Super Rugby crowds are testing the 10k floor (and so are many of the Foxtel ratings).

No I wasnt avoiding SA at all. Been through this here many many times.

RSA GDP $300B US - per capita low overall economy is big. Has it's own issues though. But the economy can generate sporting funds.
NZ GDP $200B US

Fiji GDP $4.6B US

Strangely enough SA makes up things by weight of numbers.

 

[dru]

With a revenue sharing model similar to what Half proposed (and is apparently utilised by the NFL? NBA?) a Fiji team and a joint Tonga / Samoa team could be viable purely from the ticket sales generated by PI expats alone.

If you’ve ever attended the Gold Coast 7s (now Sydney 7s) or any sort of Rugby game with a high Islander representation, you’ll see that PI expats come out in hordes to support their fellow nationals, and since they earn developed country wages, they can afford developed country prices.

Michael,

My statement was that they can't generate it internally in Fiji. Expats not in Fiji ... oh work it out yourself.

Look Fiji produce great rugby players and that is something in terms of simple social equity should be rewarded. But it has to be paid for. And the cost would need to be (largely) covered by the comp, not from the Nation.

 

[joeyjohnz]

But it has to be paid for. And the cost would need to be (largely) covered by the comp, not from the Nation.

WR (World Rugby) would cover the costs of travel and accomodation for the Tonga, Fiji & Samoa like they're doing for the Drua in the NRC. Currently WR (World Rugby) subsidises these three nations to the tune of 1.7m pounds a year. If they increase that my 1m you'll have fully professional setups with players on $60k+aud/year. They could ask for equal gov & ngo contributions by treating the teams & games as a tourism advertisements much like Air NZ does with the All Blacks.

Hell, build a stadium that runs along a beach so every camera angle screams footy in paradise. Jam some cheap flights-to-fiji/suva down our throats during the ads.

Give the unions a chance to prove worthwhile commercially; and they can only do that with games. Their inclusion provides the most crucial thing for the competition - legitimacy.

 

[hoggy]

WR (World Rugby) would cover the costs of travel and accomodation for the Tonga, Fiji & Samoa like they're doing for the Drua in the NRC. Currently WR (World Rugby) subsidises these three nations to the tune of 1.7m pounds a year. If they increase that my 1m you'll have fully professional setups with players on $60k+aud/year. They could ask for equal gov & ngo contributions by treating the teams & games as a tourism advertisements much like Air NZ does with the All Blacks.

Hell, build a stadium that runs along a beach so every camera angle screams footy in paradise. Jam some cheap flights-to-fiji/suva down our throats during the ads.

Give the unions a chance to prove worthwhile commercially; and they can only do that with games. Their inclusion provides the most crucial thing for the competition - legitimacy.

The problem with Super rugby is the whole structure and selfish nature of the Unions prevents this sort of set up happening. They want the money from expansion, but not the responsibilities or sacrifice that comes with it.

There is not enough money in the Pacific countries to fund this, you need someone or organizations that want it to happen.

Look at the positives, They have the players. Auckland, Western Sydney both have huge expats populations, Scheduling games to take advantage of the teams location. Funding from World Rugby, Fiji Government, Private owners, a couple of draft concessions.
The thing is they have to want it to happen and be a success.

SANZAAR are only interested in sucking money out of new markets (noticed the Sunwolves) and finally could not organize a shit in a Toilet.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

No I wasnt avoiding SA at all. Been through this here many many times.



RSA GDP $300B US - per capita low overall economy is big. Has it's own issues though. But the economy can generate sporting funds.

NZ GDP $200B US



Fiji GDP $4.6B US



Strangely enough SA makes up things by weight of numbers.

Samoa and Tonga definitely are difficult commercially to see but Fiji for my mind is a complete different proposition as because of their 7's brand and profile - Fiji professional team would be after NZ team next best attraction as we all know how good and exciting their running brand of rugby is - some of that was on show from their amateur side who played against the force pro's on Friday night. Could you imagine what a Fiji pro side could look like that could retain a lot more of its top talent? Also as stated Fiji is major holiday destination so tie it in with tourism marketing of Fiji lot more potential. For my mind Fiji team would bump up broadcast rights value so that has to be taken into account.

Samoa and Tonga - yes really hard to see and I would be surprised if they were part of Twiggy Ball but I guess hard challenges is something twiggy not afraid of. For my mind, definites are Fiji, Japanese team (Wild Knights?), HK team, which leaves one more and where I reckon commercially more likely to be Singapore Dragons......Tonga/Samoa too difficult and best if Twiggy helps get them involved in NRC...

 

[joeyjohnz]

Yeah but this is the "where to for twiggy rugby" thread, not "Where to for super rugby".

Twiggy's shown a clear indication this year of where the comp will be at next for the Force. We're playing Samoa, Fiji, Tonga & Hong Kong this year. I'd bet my house these 4 will be foundation teams along side us next year. He'd be leveraging his business network to make these economically viable as we speak.

The Japanese Top League runs from August to mid January; so there's definitely scope to play both and for Twiggy Rugby to wrap up by August and still give these teams a 2-3 month off-season for teams that are interested.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Michael,



My statement was that they can't generate it internally in Fiji. Expats not in Fiji . oh work it out yourself.



Look Fiji produce great rugby players and that is something in terms of simple social equity should be rewarded. But it has to be paid for. And the cost would need to be (largely) covered by the comp, not from the Nation.

I imagine as Twiggy calling the shots - he could have Fiji team playing wheresaythey only play half their home games in Fijiand the other home games in say Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne where could market twiggy ball to broader Australian market by getting east coast residents opportunities to attend and more importantly ex pat PI community to attend games. Plus as I said extra value for increased broadcast rights value adding team calibre of Fiji could offer could be used to subsidise.

If was RA organising this sure they would not be innovative to create something like this that could work but Twiggy Ball's team is all about innovation and challenging status quo thinking so why it will probably work.

 

[gordy1]

I imagine as Twiggy calling the shots - he could have Fiji team playing wheresaythey only play half their home games in Fijiand the other home games in say Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne where could market twiggy ball to broader Australian market by getting east coast residents opportunities to attend and more importantly ex pat PI community to attend games. Plus as I said extra value for increased broadcast rights value adding team calibre of Fiji could offer could be used to subsidise.

If was RA organising this sure they would not be innovative to create something like this that could work but Twiggy Ball's team is all about innovation and challenging status quo thinking so why it will probably work.

I’m pretty sure that Twiggy won’t be doing anything to promote rugby on the East Coast. I’m not sure if you heard either of his microphone moments at the Fiji match (I think one of them was broadcast on the Channel 7 coverage, not so sure about Fox), but he didn’t have anything positive to say about those over east!