Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[cyclopath]

It certainly looks like he has a good team putting this all together, and they're making all the right noises from the key aspects - particularly the latter 2 above in Micheal's post.
My only lingering reservation is with regard to this being the "get out clause" for Rugby Au from Super Rugby particularly looking at the "level" of play. I don't doubt it will be good, and entertaining, but I firmly believe we need a comp at a level high enough to really prepare our players for Test level. It might be able to achieve that; it would be great if so.
That's my minor concern.
Otherwise, it all looks pretty damn good thus far.

 

[ForceFan]

I have my doubts about this comp, however I was told that some contracts are being structured to permit super players to play in this comp as opposed, I think, to NRC.

I'm sure that Andrew Forrest won't mind if people from the East Coats "have doubts" because this new competition isn't for them. As he has already said - if the Western Force hadn't been axed he wouldn't be progressing the IPRC. The competition is to maintain a professional Rugby Union team in Perth and grow the game into areas that the the EARU has had no interest in. The IPRC will cater for a very different audience - the Indian-Pacific audience. That's already a bigger audience than the East Coast of Australia. The IPRC won't be beholding to the traditional structures that have held back the growth of Rugby Union in Australia. Clearly Forrest would prefer that this happens with the EARU's blessing but you could read enough into his presentation to see that it's not essential. It would appear that he already has the IRB's blessing. It will be a bit embarrassing if Forrest attracts a big number of Australian players to this new 2nd tier competition and the EARU says no regarding their eligibility for the Wallabies. The ramifications will be interesting as the IPRC won't be under the EARU's Super Rugby salary cap.

 

[ForceFan]

Okay, here's the first questions for you:

How many Australian teams will the ARU allow such a competition to have? One, more (or even none)?

For argument's sake let's say a consortium wanted to resurrect the Stars under coach Peter Playford to join the IPRC and cream off Sydney players with top-up pay they don't currently get within the 3rd tier. –– Green light from the ARU?

Forrest answered that question for you today. In the initial setup there will be only ONE Australian team - the Western Force.

 

[kiap]

I imagine that Twiggy will look to secure a few marquee players, before filling the rest with the top players from the NRC and club competitions around the country.

Wider. Paid-up pro-contracts will also attract from PI and NZ and elsewhere, not just Oz.

 

[kiap]

Forrest answered that question for you today. In the initial setup there will be only ONE Australian team - the Western Force.

Yep. But we'll hear from the RแAแ next week. They've gotta approve it.

Then select the window: Jul–Oct or Mar–Jun.

 

[ForceFan]

It certainly looks like he has a good team putting this all together, and they're making all the right noises from the key aspects - particularly the latter 2 above in Micheal's post.
My only lingering reservation is with regard to this being the "get out clause" for Rugby Au from Super Rugby particularly looking at the "level" of play. I don't doubt it will be good, and entertaining, but I firmly believe we need a comp at a level high enough to really prepare our players for Test level. It might be able to achieve that; it would be great if so.
That's my minor concern.
Otherwise, it all looks pretty damn good thus far.

In 2017 none of the Australian franchises were preparing our players for Test level. They all finished in the bottom half of the ladder. The Brumbies only made the finals because of the structure. Our test team used to do well prior to the switch to professionalism and had no competition rather than Club Rugby and the occasional Australian representative showing. If the IPRC brings more players back to be Australian based then can that be a bad thing? The Western Force players are already getting distributed between the other 4 Super Rugby franchises so the argument of diluting the player base doesn't work any more. Forrest's answer to the question re interest from current Wallabies was interesting. There's obviously some already who have put up their hand. I hope the timing is to put the IPRC up at the same time as Super Rugby as it prepares the way for when Super Rugby falls over at/before 2020.

 

[Highlander35]

Sounds pretty good so far. Hope it doesn't overlap with Soup at least for 2018-2020: after that who knows where the landscape is at.

Decent contracts, particularly if they're only short term will be ideal for bringing the likes of the Samoan, Fijian and Tongan players throughout the south pacific into the competition.

Beyond the immediate future it potentially could provide the launching point for an "Australian Based" competition without the Kiwis involved.

Ad most importantly: keeping the Force, and West Australian Rugby alive in some form for the next wee while.

Who knows what it holds beyond next year, but its probably the only positive to come out of the saga for Australian Rugby as a whole.

 

[kiap]

Beyond the immediate future it potentially could provide the launching point for an "Australian Based" competition without the Kiwis involved.

Yep. Or Australian-led with Kiwis invited. But those sort of speculations, along with subsuming soup, are a way off.

We need to see the comp get itself up and running first.

 

[cyclopath]

In 2017 none of the Australian franchises were preparing our players for Test level. They all finished in the bottom half of the ladder. The Brumbies only made the finals because of the structure. Our test team used to do well prior to the switch to professionalism and had no competition rather than Club Rugby and the occasional Australian representative showing. If the IPRC brings more players back to be Australian based then can that be a bad thing? The Western Force players are already getting distributed between the other 4 Super Rugby franchises so the argument of diluting the player base doesn't work any more. Forrest's answer to the question re interest from current Wallabies was interesting. There's obviously some already who have put up their hand. I hope the timing is to put the IPRC up at the same time as Super Rugby as it prepares the way for when Super Rugby falls over at/before 2020.

Yeah, I'm not casting aspersions on the comp by any means, and I appreciate that our teams did poorly this year. But I doubt a comp at NRC level (for example) will better prepare players for Test rugby. That's my only real reservation. And I am talking down the track, not next year, where some have mooted this comp will replace Super Rugby. Sure, a lot of lower level pro players will jump at it - it's a great opportunity. But higher level pros will probably look elsewhere for similar remuneration and competition, so we may overall be "de-skilled" so to say. Obviously, if it is a rip-roaring success, it may naturally evolve to more of an old-school NPC level. Which would be great. I don't think it hurts to look at all angles, rather than go "all-in" just because we all think the ARU / Rugby Au is on the nose.

 

[kiap]

Obviously, if it is a rip-roaring success, it may naturally evolve to more of an old-school NPC level.

It's funny. As good as the old NPC was in some ways, I sincerely doubt anyone would hold it up as a model of a ripping success. Not in it's heyday and even less now.

I'd even expect to see a share of talent vacuumed out from the Mitre 10.

I think a closer model for IPR would Japan's Top League. Obviously both comparison comps have their good points and flaws.

As does Super Rugby, clearly.

2018 won't be last time the old Soup will have to be refried.

 

[ForceFan]

Yeah, I'm not casting aspersions on the comp by any means, and I appreciate that our teams did poorly this year. But I doubt a comp at NRC level (for example) will better prepare players for Test rugby. That's my only real reservation. And I am talking down the track, not next year, where some have mooted this comp will replace Super Rugby. Sure, a lot of lower level pro players will jump at it - it's a great opportunity. But higher level pros will probably look elsewhere for similar remuneration and competition, so we may overall be "de-skilled" so to say. Obviously, if it is a rip-roaring success, it may naturally evolve to more of an old-school NPC level. Which would be great. I don't think it hurts to look at all angles, rather than go "all-in" just because we all think the ARU / Rugby Au is on the nose.

Talking to Matt Hodgson, the players who have expressed an interest - and there's lots of them - are way above NRC level and not 'low level' players at all. This competition is for National teams from lowly ranked countries who will benefit from having International marque players working with their development and playing regularly while their National RU will be resourced to grow the game at all levels. I'm struggling to see how anybody can see this as anything but good for the growth of Rugby in our region. Forrest is already talking about growth beyond the initial 6 teams. I'm interested to see what happens beyond 2020. Forrest was talking about the benefits of the IPRC being run by a single organisation - clearly a shot across the bows of SANZAAR. You have to agree with that...... Forrest is funding a 2nd tier competition (the same level as Super Rugby) not a 3rd tier competition such as the NRC. If it grows into the Pacific Island nations then I reckon we'll see a 2-level competition so that teams still play each other twice. (I hope so anyway). The old NPC got going before its time. Maybe this time it has a better chance.

 

[cyclopath]

Well, if it truly is, or ends up, at a similar level to Super Rugby, that's great. I hope you're right.
And, I do think it's good. Not sure why you think I don't.

 

[ForceFan]

Well, if it truly is, or ends up, at a similar level to Super Rugby, that's great. I hope you're right.
And, I do think it's good. Not sure why you think I don't.

More of a general comment Cyclo as you've always been supportive and prepared to watch as it unfolds. Too many others are in the "we'll all be rooned" camp and still doubting Forrest's motives.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep. Or Australian-led with Kiwis invited. But those sort of speculations, along with subsuming soup, are a way off.

We need to see the comp get itself up and running first.

Yep. If this looks like it's tracking the way Forrest wants I predict we'll see the other 4 Aus franchises look to jump across as soon as possible. Plus perhaps even Fiji. I also agree we should invite the Kiwi's in. They would be good for a few teams. Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch perhaps.

 

[BLR]

Yep. If this looks like it's tracking the way Forrest wants I predict we'll see the other 4 Aus franchises look to jump across as soon as possible. Plus perhaps even Fiji. I also agree we should invite the Kiwi's in. They would be good for a few teams. Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch perhaps.

I think if the other franchises want in they should sit out the amount of time the Force sat out of Super Rugby, to atone for the collective sins. See how you all feel then.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

stuff Supe Rugby, this looks more like the Blues speed
.
Auckland Blues
Fiji Karvers
Samoa Corrupters
Western Force
Hong Kong Merrill Lynchers
Shanghai Smog Monsters
Kuala Lumpers
Singapore Gumchuckers
Seoul Brothers
Tokyo Upskirters

 

[Brumby Runner]

The Manilla Killas?

 

[cyclopath]

stuff Supe Rugby, this looks more like the Blues speed
.
Auckland Blues
Fiji Karvers
Samoa Corrupters
Western Force
Hong Kong Merrill Lynchers
Shanghai Smog Monsters
Kuala Lumpers
Singapore Gumchuckers
Seoul Brothers
Tokyo Upskirters

Gunston Goon-Baggers?

 

[dru]

I'm interested to see what happens beyond 2020. Forrest was talking about the benefits of the IPRC being run by a single organisation - clearly a shot across the bows of SANZAAR. You have to agree with that.

Hell yes. The ARU response will be fascinating.

 

[half]

The three areas that stood out for me were the desire to bring back players, to expand the number of teams over time and to broadcast online. We need to expand the teams more than anything IMO and I posted in the Super Rugby thread kinda why.