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Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

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Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
^^^^^^^ my real concern would be that a significant number of our best would go offshore while most of the best ABs would remain chasing the black jersey. The competition could well end up more unequal than Super Rugby is at present.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
So four games a week. What time slots do you look at playing games in? Who is the likely broadcaster? Presumably the comp is played when Super Rugby is currently.

What sort of budget would you be shooting for in terms of player payments etc.?

Obviously prime time is your target time slot, 1 on Friday, 2 on Saturday and 1 on Sunday.

Playing the game of hypotheticals.... Broadcasters is a difficult one, best case scenario they're all on FTA, reality is that won't pull enough money so 2 on FTA(Channel 10 being the obvious candidate) and 2 on Foxtel.

We're operating with far too little information to talk budgets at this stage, but a longer season would be necessary to extract greater broadcast revenue. Potentially two seperate comps, with a domestic comp in Feb - Jun and a Champions League comp(ft. New Zealand teams) Jul - Nov, or vice versa.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Why not play the domestic tournaments in Feb-Jun with all the top players, and then in Jul-Oct you play a Champions Cup style tournament which would see the Super Rugby equivalent teams play in Trans-Tasman comp.

Neither would extract as much value as Super Rugby would, but individually both tournaments are now worth more for different reasons.

In either case, it's better then sticking with a sinking ship that lacks engagement with the rugby public
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
^^^^^^^ my real concern would be that a significant number of our best would go offshore while most of the best ABs would remain chasing the black jersey. The competition could well end up more unequal than Super Rugby is at present.

The players are going in ever increasing numbers already. We've just cut the number of professional contracts available by 20%, so stand-by for another increase in departures when the impact of that fully kicks in. We're also seeing an increasing number of players who grew up and/or were born here with Kiwi or PI heritage going to NZ to play in the NPC and follow the AB pathway.

Personally, I think we need some time to develop our own domestic structures. Until we've got our act together, we really only should be playing NZ in a champions type league at the end of a domestic league and at test level.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Why not play the domestic tournaments in Feb-Jun with all the top players, and then in Jul-Oct you play a Champions Cup style tournament which would see the Super Rugby equivalent teams play in Trans-Tasman comp.

Neither would extract as much value as Super Rugby would, but individually both tournaments are now worth more for different reasons.

In either case, it's better then sticking with a sinking ship that lacks engagement with the rugby public

Similar to my thoughts but to be honest, BH remonstrations aside, I'm not a sporting administrator. Anyway. Let the Champions thing be (from Aus) rep teams. 3 of them. And that part of the system can certainly include RSA. SOO rep teams in order to break barriers between teams in the Domestic (or TT) comp. In the mean time back in Aus you still have to feed-in the club comps and connect them into the structure. In Sydney this also means looking to the relationship of Subbies and SRU under the NSWRU. I think it needs to be far more strategic and connected. Back on topic - how we connect Twiggy into this is the trick, and despite the naysayers and Twiggy haters, rugby just cant afford to continue treating a bloke poorly who is interested and has cash. Personally I'd try to re-find a solid place for WA rugby at each level and see if he was interested in focussing on making WA a powerhouse. If that means the third SOO champions team is Perth based. Good.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Why not play the domestic tournaments in Feb-Jun with all the top players, and then in Jul-Oct you play a Champions Cup style tournament which would see the Super Rugby equivalent teams play in Trans-Tasman comp.

Neither would extract as much value as Super Rugby would, but individually both tournaments are now worth more for different reasons.

In either case, it's better then sticking with a sinking ship that lacks engagement with the rugby public

I personally think that this would be the most ideal professional structure for the game. Has a full season of the NRC or some iteration of it for no more than 16 weeks before moving on to the IPRC involving the top 4 sides from the NRC, Mitre 10 Cup, Top League and four from Asia. Four pools of 4 home and away for 6 additional games. Top 2 from each pool into the final 8 for a 7 game finals series. Then onto Test match Rugby with the Rugby Championship first and Spring/Autumn(for the north) tours inbound and outbound on an rotating basis. For the clubs. Look to expand the Australian Club Championship and play it alongside the IPRC. Three from Sydney, 2 Brisbane, one from Canberra and purely club based rep squads from Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth. An 8 game post season for each club with a 4 team finals. Eleven weeks total. Perfect.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Dru I think we are all coming from a very similar place. We acknowledge the failures of elements of the Super model, and the potential benefits a domestic alternative could bring.

Where we differ is the realities of making it actually happen. I just don't know how a domestic-only (or even one with a couple of PI/Asian sides) competition can produce the level of $$$ required to pay players enough to hold them in Aus.

We're already losing players by the planeload to increased cash in Europe, but thankfully Super is financially strong enough for us to keep most of our front-line stars here. This is mainly thanks to TV revenue.

When we lose a fair chunk of that TV revenue, we would logically lose the means to pay our stars the big $ we need to keep them here. So not only are we building a new comp, but we're doing it without Izzy, Quade, Hooper, etc.

So when the rubber hits the road, I'm really skeptical about how we can make the dollars and cents work in a domestic competition. Though it may be the best thing long-term for our game.
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Outside of Fiji and the force hard to see what other teams could be successful from other countries. But at least we have some one else's money taking that risk and where if successful we get the upside. Out of the six teams that finally get selected I am sure we will get some successes and some failures who drop out and get replaced by other teams in twiggyball mark 2. But that is ok as you don't move forward with out taking some risks. As for years been debated that professional side from Fiji far too risky and won't work but yet we finally give them an opportunity with Fiji Drua and it does not look so risky. Twiggyball prepared to experiment based on research and learnings from sports (why we have eugenie on twiggys team) so if we get some successes and learn how to improve it with some failures all good. As remember this is not ARU money funding this which is why win win. But good to see ARU providing it's working group to help maximise chances of success as low risk investment by ARU for great potential reward.


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kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Outside of Fiji and the force hard to see what other teams could be successful from other countries. But at least we have some one else's money taking that risk.

Asia Pacific Dragons.

Team has been around six or seven years now, after the French guy who runs it established his company in Hong Kong. He also runs the World Club 10s. The APDs have played pre-season matches against the Force for many seasons and were South Africa's preferred expansion team for Supe (ahead of Japan).

This team could make it. Where might they get the players from?

A supply of underpaid rugby talent IS out there. Not a few players that are better than many of the journeymen plying their trade in pro rugby here now.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Asia Pacific Dragons.

Team has been around six or seven years now, after the French guy who runs it established his company in Hong Kong. He also runs the World Club 10s. The APDs have played pre-season matches against the Force for many seasons and were South Africa's preferred expansion team for Supe (ahead of Japan).

This team could make it. Where might they get the players from?

A supply of underpaid rugby talent IS out there. Not a few players that are better than many of the journeymen plying their trade in pro rugby here now.
Ok that is 3 teams for twiggyball...


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Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Obviously prime time is your target time slot, 1 on Friday, 2 on Saturday and 1 on Sunday.

Playing the game of hypotheticals.. Broadcasters is a difficult one, best case scenario they're all on FTA, reality is that won't pull enough money so 2 on FTA(Channel 10 being the obvious candidate) and 2 on Foxtel.

We're operating with far too little information to talk budgets at this stage, but a longer season would be necessary to extract greater broadcast revenue. Potentially two seperate comps, with a domestic comp in Feb - Jun and a Champions League comp(ft. New Zealand teams) Jul - Nov, or vice versa.
Ch 10 obvious one you reckon...ch 7 I would have thought candidate given Shute shield on there...


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zer0

John Thornett (49)
"Queensland Reds sack coach Nick Stiles for dual international Brad Thorn"

As a PSA, you can get the title from the URL by copying the URL into the browser but, before hitting enter, look at the URL for the title. It'll be fairly obvious as the words in the title are all punctuated by dashes. Using this article as an example, you can see it clearly:

"dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/rugby/queensland-reds-sack-coach-nick-stiles-for-dual-international-brad-thorn/news-story/....."
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
The silence around Twiggyball is a bit frustrating. I feel like we're losing a bit of momentum. Hope that's not the case though. .

Concern trolling. You used to be better than that.

How long has it been out of the news? Two weeks?
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Fair point. I don't know, I just got swept up in the excitement of it all and was hoping we'd be a bit further down the track by now. But maybe that's me being unrealistic.
 

Boof1050

Bill Watson (15)
Fair point. I don't know, I just got swept up in the excitement of it all and was hoping we'd be a bit further down the track by now. But maybe that's me being unrealistic.

Nah mate its just the ARU putting a massive spanner in the works. They wouldn't be going hard down this road and then going to suddenly roll over and give twiggy control over their baby. But they had better do something quick because the pro game in WA has just died with todays announcement.
 

chibimatty

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Yeah, wouldn't mind some kind of announcement on WA's pro-rugby future. Don't even know if the Spirit will be around next year at this rate.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Nah mate its just the ARU putting a massive spanner in the works. They wouldn't be going hard down this road and then going to suddenly roll over and give twiggy control over their baby. But they had better do something quick because the pro game in WA has just died with todays announcement.

Do you have any evidence for this? Of course not. Why would the ARU try and can a tournament that could really help them?
 
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