Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[half]

Killer & Dru

Killer further to your conversations last night on the Super Rugby thread, and Dru in reaction to some of your posts.

Apologist for the establishment, are often blinded by their own fear of change, rarely debate, mostly attack and selectively take a line or word and miss represent what’s said mostly using mockery and sarcasm. They see their opinions as almost god like and the born to rule concept of the establishment is deeply entrenched.

Cynicism and derision runs deep within as to accept the changing of the guard means accepting they have been wrong for a very long time.

TF is the best thing that could happen to rugby.

He needs to be careful not to go on a scorched earth policy as we need the ARU and the State Unions in place to administrate the game.

That we need to tear it down and start again to me has been blinding obvious for many years. It’s important however to leave the structure in place but TF is a very wise man and my guess is he already understand this.

Changing culture is very difficult and always barriers meaning people wanting the old ways and often scared of their own inefficiencies being highlighted are many.

Sometimes a slogan can change culture norms, the Norm commercial about excise, the slip slop splash sunscreen commercials, the seat belt click clack front and back commercial, soccer’s new football old soccer campaign, these are all examples where a simple message effected cultural change. Hopefully TF can do something similar.

This will be a no contest, TF will win. I can see the mercy rule being asked for within 3 to 4 years TBH.

My chief concern and he still has to win me on this is I want local domestic teams not one WA team and five overseas teams.

Killer have faith in the game most of all.

My song for today, last week I put up “Children of the Revolution” and the other day “Wake me Up, when it’s over”

This is my TF song for you guys. This vid is quite dramatic worth watching if you have not seen it.

The Pretenders === I Stand By You.

Enjoy

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Without doubt this is going to happen.

Yes needs to start small - with 6 teams. I can't see too many other aussie teams involved for as per John Welborn commentary in the age article I posted - they are not looking to create a rebel competition that is in competition with Super Rugby, hence I doubt (at least initially) there will be any other Oz teams involved in TF's twiggy ball comp in Super Rugby states. And no I don't see Adelaide as one of the initial teams involved.

For me would have to be Force, HK and Singapore are the only 3 known commercial quantities. Chinese team possibly if linked up with Ali sports and/or big Chinese backer who can bring in foreign imports (read pay enough). Hard for me to see commercially what the other teams would be as Sri Lanka, Samoa and Tonga no money no honey......

I also would have thought earliest this comp could be ready by is for 2019 given late start to planning?

 

[daz]

Who knew Greenland and Upper Scandinavia had such depth?

Mad for it, those crazy snow eating mofo's. Twiggy will probably base a team in Reykjavík.

 

[Dan54]

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...el-league-says-exwallaby-20170906-gyceyp.html

That is one of the most sensible things I have read on it RN, of course it won't be a rebel league ,because that will not work, but what Wellborn is saying could quite raise hopes of some sense!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

That is one of the most sensible things I have read on it RN, of course it won't be a rebel league ,because that will not work, but what Wellborn is saying could quite raise hopes of some sense!

I reckon we'll see it scheduled for around the same time as the current Top League schedule. Probably running for a similar length of time. While this will mean that it will enter the summer window it won't be too oppressive for the players.

Also, say if this gets up and Super Rugby goes the way of the dodo with the other 4 Aus teams entering I'd like the ARU to allow Australian players to ply their trade for any team within this competition and still be eligible for the Wallabies.

 

[Froggy]

WCR I agree Super Rugby will die, however I remain to be convinced that Twiggy rugby will be what will replace it.

 

[ForceFan]

I reckon we'll see it scheduled for around the same time as the current Top League schedule. Probably running for a similar length of time. While this will mean that it will enter the summer window it won't be too oppressive for the players.

Also, say if this gets up and Super Rugby goes the way of the dodo with the other 4 Aus teams entering I'd like the ARU to allow Australian players to ply their trade for any team within this competition and still be eligible for the Wallabies.

Despite the current anger and angst that's been created by the axing of the Force I reckon the development of the Indo-Pacific comp will be something like:

• Twiggy and others in WA are driven by the desire to maintain a professional team in WA to ensure a pathway to the Wallabies. Without a Perth-based professional team there is no pathway. NRC just doesn't provide one. WA would just provide players for the East Coast.
• Eventually it will be developed in close collaboration/sanction with the IRB and EARU. To that end "Rebel" has no place in describing the initiative.
• This ensures that players are available for Wallabies selection and that quality Refs are available
• 6 teams initially in order to follow KISS principles to make it work.
• 7s, Women's XV and Men's XV should ensure a great match day experience.
• FTA TV coverage will give Rugby the lift that it needs.
• Fill the window between the end of Super Rugby and Wallabies Spring Tour. That means a July start and avoids the heat in some locations. Puts International Rugby up against Mitre 10 & Curry Cup local comps.
• This could easily become the 2nd division set-up once Super Rugby falls over after 2020 (or before) when Super Rugby teams can join in.

Big supporter of the Alan Jones initiative of Western Force players making up the bulk of the Barbarians team in Sydney against the Wallabies at the end of October.
It will be interesting to see the players that Jones adds to the squad.

We've already seen what a motivated WF team could do against a team with 11/23 Wallabies.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

WCR I agree Super Rugby will die, however I remain to be convinced that Twiggy rugby will be what will replace it.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. We'll have to wait for all the details to emerge before we can make a more inform judgment.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Despite the current anger and angst that's been created by the axing of the Force I reckon the development of the Indo-Pacific comp will be something like:

• Twiggy and others in WA are driven by the desire to maintain a professional team in WA to ensure a pathway to the Wallabies. Without a Perth-based professional team there is no pathway. NRC just doesn't provide one. WA would just provide players for the East Coast.
• Eventually it will be developed in close collaboration/sanction with the IRB and EARU. To that end "Rebel" has no place in describing the initiative.
• This ensures that players are available for Wallabies selection and that quality Refs are available
• 6 teams initially in order to follow KISS principles to make it work.
• 7s, Women's XV and Men's XV should ensure a great match day experience.
• FTA TV coverage will give Rugby the lift that it needs.
• Fill the window between the end of Super Rugby and Wallabies Spring Tour. That means a July start and avoids the heat in some locations. Puts International Rugby up against Mitre 10 & Curry Cup local comps.
• This could easily become the 2nd division set-up once Super Rugby falls over after 2020 (or before) when Super Rugby teams can join in.

Big supporter of the Alan Jones initiative of Western Force players making up the bulk of the Barbarians team in Sydney against the Wallabies at the end of October.

It will be interesting to see the players that Jones adds to the squad.

We've already seen what a motivated WF team could do against a team with 11/23 Wallabies.

If it features pro women's XVs it'll have my support pretty quickly.

 

[cyclopath]

It will be some sort of coup if they can get FTA to broadcast the new comp, given the diminishing state of FTA money and interest in Aus currently. Hopefully, Andrew Forrest has some strings he can pull.

 

[RugbyReg]

Any ideas where RUPA sits with all of this?

 

[wamberal]

It will be some sort of coup if they can get FTA to broadcast the new comp, given the diminishing state of FTA money and interest in Aus currently. Hopefully, Andrew Forrest has some strings he can pull.

FTA will do what is in their self interest. I doubt that pulling strings will achieve anything more than the opening of doors. That is of value, of course, but the product will have to be seen to stand on its own feet in terms of viewer and sponsor attractiveness.

 

[TOCC]

Any ideas where RUPA sits with all of this?

I thibk they would begrudgingly support it, a new competition seperate from the ARU wouldn't feature RUPA as the players representative would it? So for them, a new competiton is a threat to their establishment as well, but one which stands to benefit the players they represent.

 

[RugbyReg]

I thibk they would begrudgingly support it, a new competition seperate from the ARU wouldn't feature RUPA as the players representative would it? So for them, a new competiton is a threat to their establishment as well, but one which stands to benefit the players they represent.

yep, it's probably just the player welfare thing I'm aware of but with what some players are doing between Oz/Super Rugby and Japan, it's probably not relevant anymore as long as the $$$ are there

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes needs to start small - with 6 teams. I can't see too many other aussie teams involved for as per John Welborn commentary in the age article I posted - they are not looking to create a rebel competition that is in competition with Super Rugby, hence I doubt (at least initially) there will be any other Oz teams involved in TF's twiggy ball comp in Super Rugby states. And no I don't see Adelaide as one of the initial teams involved.

For me would have to be Force, HK and Singapore are the only 3 known commercial quantities. Chinese team possibly if linked up with Ali sports and/or big Chinese backer who can bring in foreign imports (read pay enough). Hard for me to see commercially what the other teams would be as Sri Lanka, Samoa and Tonga no money no honey..

I also would have thought earliest this comp could be ready by is for 2019 given late start to planning?

Reflecting on this.

I still believe despite the promises this competition is still in the due diligence phase with twiggy selecting a capable team to try and make it happen and keen to do so. But as a business man if the advise he is given is cannot be financially sustainable he will not proceed. Regardless I don't get the Criiticism in some quarters of timing of twiggy's involvement. As last time I checked rugby is financially in a pretty dire position which ARU confirmed so to be perfectly frank anytime any billionaire wants to get involved I don't think we should be asking why not done earlier but just grateful for their involvement and support. I sometimes wonder if people really understand how difficult rugby's finances are in this country and how contrary to popular belief there are is not a queue of billionaires willing to provide financial support for our game which is in rude financial health.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ForceFan]

It will be some sort of coup if they can get FTA to broadcast the new comp, given the diminishing state of FTA money and interest in Aus currently. Hopefully, Andrew Forrest has some strings he can pull.

The FTA is likely to come via Kerry Stokes and Channel 7 who has already indicated support of Twiggy's initiative. The big $$s won't be from Oz but more likely from Singapore and Hong Kong/China who are both trying to grow the game.

 

[Killer]

The FTA is likely to come via Kerry Stokes and Channel 7 who has already indicated support of Twiggy's initiative. The big $$s won't be from Oz but more likely from Singapore and Hong Kong/China who are both trying to grow the game.

Yes that's right.
FTA content is not going to cost the Networks heaps, for them it's content and for us it's just about exposure. Win win and see what the future holds.

 

[cyclopath]

Yes that's right.
FTA content is not going to cost the Networks heaps, for them it's content and for us it's just about exposure. Win win and see what the future holds.

I don't think it's that simple. See Wamberal's post a few up - FTA won't put it on if it won't rate or provide a benefit for them (in their opinion), and that is the unknown. Don't forget, FTA might also mean some ungodly hour that nobody will watch.
Hopefully, they have a plan that's more than an idea. We'll see.

 

[kiap]

IFTA won't put it on if it won't rate or provide a benefit for them

Or pay to put it on FTA. Not necessarily as dumb as it sounds.

Obviously the Shute had a solid amount of public recognition to help make that happen - but it's working for them. David Begg's mob was able to choose that path for the SRU.

For the ARU, unfortunately, it is almost impossible now to leave the Pay-TV-only stranglehold, even if they wanted to … and the beaten, battered woman keeps returning to her violent husband.

 

[Killer]

I don't think it's that simple. See Wamberal's post a few up - FTA won't put it on if it won't rate or provide a benefit for them (in their opinion), and that is the unknown. Don't forget, FTA might also mean some ungodly hour that nobody will watch.
Hopefully, they have a plan that's more than an idea. We'll see.

Well worst case even if it means paying for the time who cares. Or the networks see it as an investment in the future at minimal cost with the likelihood of Super rugby dying soon. Foxtel pay what? 55m for super rugby mainly just for the content so there must be some value there especially looking to the future.
TF may be able to talk Kerry into it especially if 10's new owners NBC may be interested.
Who knows how popular the women's rugby comp may become, or his 7's comp's. They could be huge.
It is all about the net outcome, if sponsorship from here and overseas plus competition exposure equals your goals.

Foxtel won't be thanking Clyne for cutting the Force for the obvious above reasons but also for the loss of content applicable to WA which all adds up to justify people buying Foxtel and also the effect it will have on sponsorship which suddenly isn't national.
This may not be considered huge at this stage but Foxtel have worked hard to corner the market and will see this as the thin edge of the wedge.

Good luck getting a good deal at the next broadcast pow wow.
I have digressed, simply the ARU are in trouble and even with the mythical savings from cutting the Force the trajectory is still straight down. FTA will no doubt have its early hiccups but it is a long term game.

Edit: exactly Kiap, you beat me to it, pay for it.