Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugrat]

No Argentina no South Africa in the future comp. 6 Kiwi teams ( yes a new one they have the depth after all) 5 Aussie and 1 Japanese sunwolves. 12 team comp 2 rounds 6 team finals. 3 countries 11 home games per club ( so they can actually make some money) tribalism a plenty is it really that hard? If all the kiwi teams make the finals good luck to them. ARU pays match payments only to Wallabies, all player funding goes to clubs not Wallaby top ups. Piss of foreign player rules restricting against Pacific Islanders that have played for Fiji Tonga and not eligible for Wallabies etc. actually let clubs develop instead of being training squads for the Wallabies. Piss off the sixty cap rule eligibility rule. All it does is make our ypung players more valuable to foreign clubs because they know they don’t have to release them for internationals. Aru management cuts back lives off Wallaby revenue and percentage of tv revenue for grass roots development. By that I mean more junior coaching support not make believe “ elite” teenager competitions for what inevitably is rugby league contracted kids. Is this so stupid?

 

[gel]

On what basis should there be any Australian team involved in any competition with the word "super" in its title?

Just have the 5 Kiwi teams play 4 South African teams in a home and away series and top 4 play semis. I would pay to see that because I would be guaranteed *not* to see a single Australian "rugby player* (lol) fuck things up.

Rugby in this country can die a sad death, I hope, so that it stops ruining the game for everyone. Australian rugby is just an eyesore - and probably gives eye cancer or glaucoma or something for all I know.

The drop in quality by Australian rugby players is relatively recent and therefore has nothing to do with the NRL or AFL nicking the talent - that has been going on for the last 30 years. Are the coaching systems out of step with the modern game? Possibly, but if so, why so suddenly and why is it limited to this country in particular?

I contend that the players attitudes are the problem. They are content to draw a decent salary and do the minimum to keep their current position in the team as that is what they believe "professional" means.

Want proof? The number of times "competition for places" is used by coaches and players alike. The only motivation is not be replaced? Losers.

Not a single Australian player in the last five years has uttered the words "not enough to be selected - I want to best in the world".

 

[Strewthcobber]

On what basis should there be any Australian team involved in any competition with the word "super" in it's title?

Just have the 5 Kiwi teams play 4 South African teams in a home and away series and top 4 play semis. I would pay to see that because I would be guaranteed *not* to see a single Australian "rugby player* (lol) fuck things up.

Rugby in this country can die a sad death, I hope so that it stops ruining the game for everyone. Australian rugby is just an eyesore - and probably gives eye cancer or glaucoma or something for all I know.

The drop in quality by Australian rugby players is relatively recent and therefore has nothing to do with the NRL or AFL nicking the talent - that has been going on for the last 30 years. Are the coaching systems out of step with the modern game? Possibly, but if so, why so suddenly and why is it limited to this country in particular?

I contend that the players attitudes are the problem. They are content to draw a decent salary and do the minimum to keep their current position in the team as that is what they believe "professional" means.

Want proof? The number of times "competition for places" is used by coaches and players alike. The only motivation is not be replaced? Losers.

Not a single Australian player in the last five years has uttered the words "not enough to be selected - I want to best in the world".

It's not this country in particular - quality of South African teams have disappeared at the same time.

50-100 super rugby quality players in other competitions will do that, especially with our depth. For South Africa the OS numbers are even worse

Why hasn't it happened to NZ?

 

[gel]

It's not this country in particular - quality of South African teams have disappeared at the same time.

50-100 super rugby quality players in other competitions will do that, especially with our depth. For South Africa the OS numbers are even worse

Why hasn't it happened to NZ?

I can still watch SA games. They still play with some level of skill.

The Australian games are just horrible and I feel like someone has just jabbed at my eyes with a fork for 80 minutes..

 

[wamberal]

It's not this country in particular - quality of South African teams have disappeared at the same time.

50-100 super rugby quality players in other competitions will do that, especially with our depth. For South Africa the OS numbers are even worse

Why hasn't it happened to NZ?

Because rugby is not just a sport, it is a way of life, in New Zealand. Plus their strength in depth leaves us and the Seffers for dead.


I am not a sports historian, but I wish somebody who knows his or her stuff would write a book on the rise and fall of Australian rugby since the advent of professionalism.


My take is that we adapted much more quickly to professionalism than any other country, plus of course our coaches were adept at pinching some good ideas from loig. John Muggleton of course was a huge asset for our game.


So in a sense we were punching well above our weight. What goes up, comes back down again, usually, and the rest of the rugby world has caught up and, when the weight of numbers (and quality) are fully factored into the equation, we are not likely to be in the top tier as a matter of course.


It is futile to compare our situation with New Zealand. Did you miss my post which points out that rugby gets the pick of the crop in New Zealand? Compare and contrast with our situation, where we very rarely get the pick of the crop, the pick of the crop goes to the richer, more popular, more "Australian" codes, AFL and NRL. In my opinion, this trend will accelerate, because those two codes are designed for Australian sensibilities.

 

[TOCC]

My take is that we adapted much more quickly to professionalism than any other country, plus of course our coaches were adept at pinching some good ideas from loig. John Muggleton of course was a huge asset for our game.

So in a sense we were punching well above our weight. What goes up, comes back down again, usually, and the rest of the rugby world has caught up and, when the weight of numbers (and quality) are fully factored into the equation, we are not likely to be in the top tier as a matter of course.

I don't agree, Canterbury for example has a smaller player catchment then NSW or QLD yet Canterbury continually churn out quality players and coaches on a more consistent basis because they have a structure in place which promotes the development of players and coaches.

Australia Rugby is far from the complete package, yeah I agree the Wallabies probably batted above their average in the early years of professionalism, but with that being said, there is still an enormous amount of room and potential for Rugby Australia to improve on the product and production lines that currently exist.

Australia is also blessed with a significant Polynesian demographic who continually punch well above their weigh at a test rugby level as well, Fiji play like a country of 10 million, not 800,000. Australia like New Zealand benefits from this Polynesian influence and will allow Australia to punch above their weight in years to come as well.

 

[Strewthcobber]

As a little excrsise, I rewatched the first 10 minutes of the Reds v Rebels game. First game of the year, we have some clear air with no AFL and only an exhibition game of NRL

The first 10 minutes of game time, which took 13 minutes in real life ended after the Rebs missed the penalty after the Red card.
This included:

• two missed penalty goals
• a kick out on the full
• 2 kicks straight to the opposition
• 4 knock-ons
• 3 minutes between time off and awarding the red card
• 2 scrum resets and a scrum penalty

Almost exactly 5 minutes of real time where the sequence of play went:
knock-on, scrum, scrum reset, scrum turnover (when Genia pinched it), scrum, scrum reset, knock-on at first phase, 1 minute water break, scrum, scrum penalty, lineout, turnover first phase, Then Higgers shoulder charge

In that time, there were 0 tackles and 2 or 3 successful pass. Over 5 minutes!


Super Rugby's back baby!

 

[half]

As a little excrsise, I rewatched the first 10 minutes of the Reds v Rebels game. First game of the year, we have some clear air with no AFL and only an exhibition game of NRL

The first 10 minutes of game time, which took 13 minutes in real life ended after the Rebs missed the penalty after the Red card.
This included:

• two missed penalty goals
• a kick out on the full
• 2 kicks straight to the opposition
• 4 knock-ons
• 3 minutes between time off and awarding the red card
• 2 scrum resets and a scrum penalty

Almost exactly 5 minutes of real time where the sequence of play went:

knock-on, scrum, scrum reset, scrum turnover (when Genia pinched it), scrum, scrum reset, knock-on at first phase, 1 minute water break, scrum, scrum penalty, lineout, turnover first phase, Then Higgers shoulder charge

In that time, there were 0 tackles and 2 or 3 successful pass. Over 5 minutes!


Super Rugby's back baby!

wow thats a very telling set of stats.

 

[wamberal]

wow thats a very telling set of stats.

Mmmm. Yes it is. Kind of supports my long standing narrative that the frigging product is the problem.


Incidentally, there is an article in today's "Hurled" to the effect that the new EPL rights will show a dramatic flattening out in the value of this traditionally bullish product.

 

[jimmydubs]

Mmmm. Yes it is. Kind of supports my long standing narrative that the frigging product is the problem.
.

Not really. Any product suffers when played at a low skill level.

 

[wamberal]

Not really. Any product suffers when played at a low skill level.

Definitions, definitions. The product is the end result that the consumer errrr consumes. If a game is played at a low skill level, the product is not good enough.


But at the end of the day, definitions do not matter, what matters is that we had better start putting some decent rugby on the field, sooner rather than later. If the Waratahs cannot draw a decent crowd when there are no opposition codes in action, things are not all that bright.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Anither stat from the first week back
Source is the Rugbystats app who use Opta I believe

Handling errors
Sunw v Brums - 55
Tahs v Stormers - 64
Rebs v Reds - 69


4 kiwi teams were 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th with no more than 22 errors each. (Chiefs let them down and of course Sharks had the bye)

Last year around 60 per match was average

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[wamberal]

Fascinating stats.

 

[John S]

It is interesting. I watched all the games from last week (tragic I know), and the difference in ball handling skills between the Aussie and NZ conference was very apparent. Some of the Aussie games looked pedestrian at best.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It is interesting. I watched all the games from last week (tragic I know), and the difference in ball handling skills between the Aussie and NZ conference was very apparent. Some of the Aussie games looked pedestrian at best.

Lots of other factors at play - but I had a look at this a couple of years ago and all teams have worse handling stats in Australia early in the season, Kiwi teams included.

Games in Feb/March in Australia are usually hot, and at 8pm they are going to be humid (the infamous dew problem).

It's an issue for the comp

 

[John S]

Lots of other factors at play - but I had a look at this a couple of years ago and all teams have worse handling stats in Australia early in the season, Kiwi teams included.

Games in Feb/March in Australia are usually hot, and at 8pm they are going to be humid (the infamous dew problem).

It's an issue for the comp

Fair enough. It will be interesting to see how they change as the season goes on.

 

[James Pettifer]

Lots of other factors at play - but I had a look at this a couple of years ago and all teams have worse handling stats in Australia early in the season, Kiwi teams included.

Games in Feb/March in Australia are usually hot, and at 8pm they are going to be humid (the infamous dew problem).

It's an issue for the comp

It was really unusually humid in Melbourne for the Rebels v Reds game. I'm sure that this combined with 2 new coaches and very different teams than last year with little preseason for some, had a significant impact. Lance was only signed for the Reds a few weeks before the game.

 

[dru]

For the Reds to complain about humidity is like the Lions complaining about playing at altitude. They don't of course, but rather treat is as the home team advantage that it is.

 

[James Pettifer]

For the Reds to complain about humidity is like the Lions complaining about playing at altitude. They don't of course, but rather treat is as the home team advantage that it is.

I’m talking about the Rebels. The Reds just suck

 

[John S]

Is there a refereeing decisions thread for the current Super Rugby season? I thought there wasn't a lot of consistency across games re "intentional knock-downs" But, that could be me not paying 100% of attention