James Pettifer
Jim Clark (26)
Yeah, I saw that one. It shows an amazing lack of self awareness and either they have no clue how poorly this process has been managed or they are just prepared to lie.
Where to for Super Rugby?
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Yeah, I saw that one. It shows an amazing lack of self awareness and either they have no clue how poorly this process has been managed or they are just prepared to lie.
Killer
Cyril Towers (30)
Self preservation, they have dug a big hole and haven't thrown the shovel away yet, imo this behaviour shows that they have a lot to lose if all the info comes out, running scared.
Edit: I would say he is desperately trying to get the deal with Cox across the line to try and circumvent all the analysis of their actions
L
Leo86
Guest
Honour the contracts, simple.
18 teams to 2020, change the fucktard conference system we have now to a 3x6.
If Aus is struggling financially find a solution other than cut and run. Put the onus on the franchises. ARU pay the same amount across the board. No bail outs, loans that can be shown to be paid back sure.
If anything drastic fuck off Japan and Argies, nothing personal but it wasnt just Aussies goin to 5 and Saffers going to 6 that has put us in this predicament alone. SANZAARs argument is The comp is losing money because of quality. Before we extended beyond the Tri-nations we were looking at expanding not decreasing.
ARU get some backbone you are an equal partner in SANZAAR quit acting like its BITCH
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
JP, you have a valid point and, in its terms, I fully accept what you say above and the spirit in which it's said. 'Very sub-standard' was too harsh in context. You certainly deserve a reply from me.
I was amiss in not being clear re my definition of 'sub-standard'.
I was in writing this thinking more of arguable absolute standards that should be applied to all Aus Super teams than merely 'relative to very poorly performing (in w-l terms) other Aus Super franchises such as the Reds and Force.'
Re the Reds under Graham, well, I openly detested that ludicrous HC choice from Day One in 2012, and I have long argued here that it was highly likely the Force was rapidly evolving into an enterprise too fragile for the ARU, or anyone else, to fund on an ongoing basis.
I have said for years here that IMO one of the numerous problems within the system-wide institution of Australian rugby is that the body that funds all the Super teams, the ARU, was/is derelict in its strategic policy and duty to stakeholders in not enforcing performance KPIs upon all its Super teams and giving itself the right to curtail or modify funding and make RU board and HC changes if such KPIs - both commercial and playing-wise - were over certain periods consistently not met. (NB: this argument necessarily assumes the ARU was a body competent in all respects to drive such a performance-led policy of investment alteration and major franchise changes when franchise performance was not adequate, and that is not the case today.)
I have also consistently argued on these pages that the pain endured over some years by the Rebels and their fans was and is principally the glaring failure of the funding parties to implant and insist upon a high-enough and stable-enough calibre of coaching group and business leadership into the Rebels so's to reflect the serious challenges of pro rugby entering a marketplace as tightly established and competitive as is Melbourne's, and I stand by that assessment.
For a pro code that was to make very significant $ investments in an expansion team like the Rebels, a far superior Business Plan (and related risk assessment and mitigation plan) for the team and business there should have been created back in 2010-11. Instead, the Rebels enterprise was made to lurch from one hapless CEO to another and with almost parallel corrosive instability in coaching and team recruitment policies. I am on record as saying for some time that I consider Totality Tony over-promoted as HC and over-indulged by the ARU and Rebels and that he'd likely fail over time.
Returning to our discussion: IMO, the w-l %s you quote for the Rebels in recent years (after some 5 or so years of establishment) are, in terms of a reasonable set of absolute, not relative, standards, ones that should not have been consistently and blithely accepted by the ARU (assuming it was competently run) and changes should have been considered with a view to driving this % up well into the 50%s and hopefully much higher. Further, these Rebels w-l %s have been accompanied by triple digit negative PDs and I doubt whether any local RU will be commercially viable over time if it loses more home games than it wins, that has been shown to be case with the serious financial struggles of Reds and Tahs when they have built up a consistent pattern of limp, non-dominant performance trends. Finally, it is the case I believe that Rebels' crowd levels, hovering around the 10,000 mark, look commercially dangerous to income and sponsor-gaining/retaining and a quarter-full AAMI is not a great look to Foxtel viewers either.
Whatever, the Rebels have certainly performed better than the Reds and Force in recent years, have had some fine 'giant-killer' victories vs the best Super teams (I have much enjoyed those!) and, as you say, that is absolutely something that should be noted and respected. Especially, in the Reds case, the time the Reds have been in existence and their far superior player development base.
swingpass
Peter Sullivan (51)
Nah, when you are infallible and know you're right, there is no stress. you prevail by shear willpower. just ask the Donald, things are "truly great, really great, exceptional"
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
“Nothing could be more incorrect,” Clyne said. “We haven’t botched the process . we have been very clear about how the process is being run but a lot of that has got lost. There is no floundering. We are responding to people
If where we are at,is the result of a clear and correct process, thank Christ they didn't botch it!
If where we are at,is the result of a clear and correct process, thank Christ they didn't botch it!
Killer
Cyril Towers (30)
Ha Ha, yeah possibly, narcissists/psychopaths aren't disadvantaged in the corporate world, imo.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Just to add to what a total fucking joke not only Clyne's latest ludicrous comments here are but recall: when the cull was announced by the ARU with all its solemn fanfare, it was announced that the culling criteria would principally be centred around financial metrics, costs, sustainability etc. And the overriding need for the ARU to save money to be invested into the newly-discovered 'grass roots'.
The ARU then leaked that they could close the Force down at will with the only costs being to its creditors, player contracts pay-outs, etc. Senior ARU delegates despatched to Perth told the Force that they would be culled as to cull the Rebels would entail far more cost and Govt income risk, etc.
That was April.
A month later we have the remarkable reversal whereby the ARU is considering, by report, paying in the order of $6m cash _just to buy the VIC rugby license back_ let alone the additional multi-millions needed immediately thereafter to effect the operational close-down process itself.
How does any of this make any sense whatsoever.
The whole process is, for a fan, like walking into a bad dream where nothing is as it seems and the many dark personages cannot be trusted to act in any manner that can be relied upon as true or even consistent in the multiple deceptions that unfold with frightening regularity.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Either or both are inexcusable and unforgivable.
I'm for the Anonymous epithet:
We are Legion.
We Never Forget.
We Never Forgive.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
To admit their decision was based on incorrect assumptions would be far too honest a thing to do.
I also find it funny that Clyne has said 90% of the people he hears from are in favour of cutting a team, even now, when almost 50% of people on this forum are for withdrawing from Super Rugby altogether, and another 30% are in favour of doing so if it leads to a Trans-Tasman competition. Obviously none of the first group are in favour of cutting a team, and most of the 2nd wouldn't be either.
It's good to see that the GAGR forum doesn't reflect the bubble Clyne lives in.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
He neglected to mention that his two 'heard from' communications were from the respective Chairmen of the QRU and NSWRUs, both naturally congratulating Clyne on his foresight and leadership during the culling decision making process. They both 'fully respected' the need to cull a Super team.
Clyne's Executive Assistant 'accidentally deleted' all the other emails. An unfortunate lapse in the ARU's otherwise excellent internal procedures.
James Pettifer
Jim Clark (26)
It is clearly a "well oiled machine".
I do wonder what a botched process would look like.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
It is pretty extraordinary that Bill Pulver hasn't said a word about this since the initial announcement. Can't be long til he follows Rob Clarke out the door.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
You guys just don't think like the ARU.
There is nothing wrong with the process.
There are two obvious reasons for this:
There is nothing wrong with the process.
There are two obvious reasons for this:
- The process is fine its the mis and dis information the ARU are feeding into the process that is and will be the problem;
- There is no process so how can it be to blame.
The Honey Badger
Jim Lenehan (48)
Can we get a Poll going on the forum with say 5 options? Moderators and administrators of G&G?
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Twoilms
Trevor Allan (34)
Don't drag those neck-beard wizards into this.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
I was referring to this poll in case you missed it a few weeks ago: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...pport-aus-withdrawing-from-super-rugby.17510/
James Pettifer
Jim Clark (26)
Completely agree with everything you said.
The Rebels management didn't exactly start off well with the first CEO (Waldron) resigning before the team even formed and we could (and do in the Rebels thread) complain for pages on the issues with regards to coaching (and how the hell do you get that many injuries outside of competition for the second year in a row).
I would say that much of what you said also applies to the Force.
The ARU have done a horrible job of supporting the expansion teams and to be honest, this extends to their initial treatment of the Brumbies. I would have thought that they would have looked at how the AFL have been highly successful in being able to launch expansion teams and what needs to be done to build a team in new markets.
The problem is that any plan which will get us where we want to go probably shouldn't start from where we currently are.
Australia Rugby was such in a good place after the 2003 World Cup - financially and in terms of the position in the market - and to see such a decline is depressing.
The Honey Badger
Jim Lenehan (48)
Can we not put it on top of the forum thread? Like in the school thread.
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