Where to for Super Rugby?

[Quick Hands]

Just in - a 'new urgent ARU stakeholders meeting'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-...-urgent-meeting-over-super-rugby-saga/8534526

So predictable, but at least RUPA had some balls at last.

Clyne and Pulver want to avoid an EGM at all costs. Funny about that.

I love this bit. After stuffing around for 6-8 weeks, they don't want to hold a real meeting (i.e. one with real power to enforce decisions) because they would have to give 21 days notice. So, let's hold a faux meeting which doesn't bind us to anything and we can ignore anything we don't like and no one can direct us to do anything.
"We must provide 21 days notice to voting members to convene a general meeting, however in order to prevent further delays the Board is willing to meet with the major stakeholders within a shorter time-frame to detail as much information as we are able on the current process regarding Super Rugby," Clyne said.


So typical.

 

[RedsHappy]

Are the Rebels performing appallingly or not complying with core policies or KPIs?

My main point was that: it's clear the ARU's crazy sale of license contract with Cox has, highly abnormally, no criteria by which, if any kind of material breach by the Rebels business or team outcomes occurs, the ARU could potentially terminate the license so sold for no cost to it or compensation by it.

So, it seems there were no performance KPIs (or possibly anything else) for Cox to comply with.

I have great respect for the Rebels fans here on GAGR, but with due respect, the team, for many reasons no doubt, is performing to very sub-standard outcomes and has done so for some time. And commercially, Rebels home crowds have been in the commercially dangerous low low range for some years now.

 

[stoff]

Just in - a 'new urgent ARU stakeholders meeting'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-...-urgent-meeting-over-super-rugby-saga/8534526

So predictable, but at least RUPA had some balls at last.

Clyne and Pulver want to avoid an EGM at all costs. Funny about that.

Have they cut off the EGM or just arranged an interim meeting? No one has reported that RUPA and the VRU have rescinded their EGM call.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[I like to watch]

I see Clyne is quoted, no mention of Billy P, who seems to have gone the way of Huge Arse on these boards......

Bill are u ok?

 

[RedsHappy]

I love this bit. After stuffing around for 6-8 weeks, they don't want to hold a real meeting (i.e. one with real power to enforce decisions) because they would have to give 21 days notice. So, let's hold a faux meeting which doesn't bind us to anything and we can ignore anything we don't like and no one can direct us to do anything.
"We must provide 21 days notice to voting members to convene a general meeting, however in order to prevent further delays the Board is willing to meet with the major stakeholders within a shorter time-frame to detail as much information as we are able on the current process regarding Super Rugby," Clyne said.


So typical.

They are so concerned with 'good stakeholder communication', aren't they?

We have seen and applauded this quality in them so often.

And they could never have thought of initiating such a meeting themselves could they?

I mean Mr Clyne where TF is your professional consistency and integrity; FFS only days ago you and Pulver said 'none of this matter re culling can be in any way discussed or communicated as it's subject to serious legal proceedings'.

A few days later 'no problem, of course we can all meet and talk all about it'.

 

[RedsHappy]

I see Clyne is quoted, no mention of Billy P, who seems to have gone the way of Huge Arse on these boards..

Bill are u ok?

Yes, thanks much ILTW, house prices in Mosman have had a fantastic run since I was first appointed to lead Australian rugby back to greatness again (as Ealesy so typically describes it for me when I'm feeling a bit down).

 

[KOB1987]

A few days later 'no problem, of course we can all meet and talk all about it'.

In fairness, he doesn't say that they will talk about it, only that they will meet and disclose some details.

 

[James Pettifer]

My main point was that: it's clear the ARU's crazy sale of license contract with Cox has, highly abnormally, no criteria by which, if any kind of material breach by the Rebels business or team outcomes occurs, the ARU could potentially terminate the license so sold for no cost to it or compensation by it.

So, it seems there were no performance KPIs (or possibly anything else) for Cox to comply with.

I have great respect for the Rebels fans here on GAGR, but with due respect, the team, for many reasons no doubt, is performing to very sub-standard outcomes and has done so for some time. And commercially, Rebels home crowds have been in the commercially dangerous low low range for some years now.

I'm sorry Redshappy. I agree with most of your posts but the statement that the Rebels have been performing to substandard outcomes for some time is twaddle.

Let's look at 2016 - how many games did the Rebels win last year? 7 - more than the Reds and Force put together (3 wins for the Reds, 2 for the force).

How about 2015 then ... the Rebels won 7 games equal to the total of the Reds and the Force together (4 for the Reds, 3 for the Force).


Yes, the Rebels have been crap this year (injuries haven't helped), but over the past 3 seasons they have won 15 games compared to 10 for the Reds and 8 for the Force.

And I note that we know that the Reds had $1.05 million of top ups in 2016 and the Rebels only $120k. So if the Rebels have been very sub-standard then what does that make the Force and Reds?

 

[James Pettifer]

Strike! Strike! Strike!

And things further deteriorate as the RUPA are taking a leaf out of the cricketer's books and considering strike action. (http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...ralian-super-rugby-teams-20170330-gv9tnj.html)

Oh, direct link to the petition - https://www.strongerasfive.com/petition/

 

[Strewthcobber]

My main point was that: it's clear the ARU's crazy sale of license contract with Cox has, highly abnormally, no criteria by which, if any kind of material breach by the Rebels business or team outcomes occurs, the ARU could potentially terminate the license so sold for no cost to it or compensation by it.

So, it seems there were no performance KPIs (or possibly anything else) for Cox to comply with.

Don't see how you can make that assumption at all. The Rebels are paying their bills and putting a team out on the field. Not winning too many games but not disgracing themselves either. What's the possible material breach?

Losing the Rebels isn't the ARU's first choice - it's just the easiest choice at this point (Probably)

 

[Quick Hands]

Strike! Strike! Strike!

And things further deteriorate as the RUPA are taking a leaf out of the cricketer's books and considering strike action. (http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...ralian-super-rugby-teams-20170330-gv9tnj.html)

Oh, direct link to the petition - https://www.strongerasfive.com/petition/

As many of us have been saying for years.

"The Australian Rugby Union has only itself, and especially its leadership, to blame for the abyss which it finds itself in. In a real world commercial environment the company's shareholders would now be demanding the heads of those who allowed the game to enter into the current Super Rugby competition," he said. (Harris)

 

[Strewthcobber]

advocated for the Force's Super Rugby licence to be transferred to a Western Sydney franchise to shore up market share in one of the code's two main strongholds.
Harris rescinded that point of view on Thursday, saying the board and executive of the Perth club, which was bailed out by the ARU last year, had proved with recent government and corporate funding commitments that it could wash its face financially.

Fairly convenient position to be taking these days Greg.....

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/w...waratahs-ceo-greg-harris-20160311-gngtuu.html

Harris acknowledged there were some challenging times during his stint at Moore Park and looking more broadly at the state of the game said the ARU, from a strictly business sense, would be better off cutting its losses than keeping faith with making Western Australia work – a region Harris believes cannot prosper in such a saturated national sports market.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm sorry Redshappy. I agree with most of your posts but the statement that the Rebels have been performing to substandard outcomes for some time is twaddle.



Let's look at 2016 - how many games did the Rebels win last year? 7 - more than the Reds and Force put together (3 wins for the Reds, 2 for the force).



How about 2015 then . the Rebels won 7 games equal to the total of the Reds and the Force together (4 for the Reds, 3 for the Force).





Yes, the Rebels have been crap this year (injuries haven't helped), but over the past 3 seasons they have won 15 games compared to 10 for the Reds and 8 for the Force.



And I note that we know that the Reds had $1.05 million of top ups in 2016 and the Rebels only $120k. So if the Rebels have been very sub-standard then what does that make the Force and Reds?

So less shite than the other shite. The facts now are no longer about relative shiteness and unfortunately no longer even about maintaining a "National" footprint. The base discussion really now has to be about the survival of Professional Rugby in this country. As things stand none of the teams are sustainable over the medium term in Super Rugby as it stands. Just not enough people are interested and that will effect the bottom line of the media deal in 2020 if not before.

And no I don't have it in for the Rebels, or the Force or anybody else. I am on the record as supporting a complete withdrawal from Super Rugby. Its a dead duck and the long we stay the more damage done to Australian Rugby.

 

[Gnostic]

Strike! Strike! Strike!



And things further deteriorate as the RUPA are taking a leaf out of the cricketer's books and considering strike action. (http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/rugby-union-players-association-launches-petition-to-keep-five-australian-super-rugby-teams-20170330-gv9tnj.html)



Oh, direct link to the petition - https://www.strongerasfive.com/petition/

Honestly F%$#%& RUPA. Their self serving greed through the professional era has contributed plenty to this debacle. Do not forget that they have had a significant part in all the ARU have done and not done.

I would however use them to get done what needs to be done before discarding them like the refuse they are, ie #bring on the Coup De tat

 

[formerflanker]

Honestly F%$#%& RUPA. Their self serving greed through the professional era has contributed plenty to this debacle. Do not forget that they have had a significant part in all the ARU have done and not done.

What sort of union agrees to remove their right to withdraw labour during the employers' most vulnerable timeframe?
i know it happens in some industries but only when the union is weak. RUPA seems to be a toothless tiger and is no help in this Super imbroglio.

 

[Slim 293]

Strike! Strike! Strike!

And things further deteriorate as the RUPA are taking a leaf out of the cricketer's books and considering strike action. (http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...ralian-super-rugby-teams-20170330-gv9tnj.html)

Oh, direct link to the petition - https://www.strongerasfive.com/petition/

Old news.........

 

[The Honey Badger]

I see Clyne is quoted, no mention of Billy P, who seems to have gone the way of Huge Arse on these boards..

Bill are u ok?

I think Billy still has a pulse, not so sure about HJ.

 

[James Pettifer]

So less shite than the other shite. The facts now are no longer about relative shiteness and unfortunately no longer even about maintaining a "National" footprint. The base discussion really now has to be about the survival of Professional Rugby in this country. As things stand none of the teams are sustainable over the medium term in Super Rugby as it stands. Just not enough people are interested and that will effect the bottom line of the media deal in 2020 if not before.

And no I don't have it in for the Rebels, or the Force or anybody else. I am on the record as supporting a complete withdrawal from Super Rugby. Its a dead duck and the long we stay the more damage done to Australian Rugby.

I'd go significantly less than the other teams.

But you are completely right around the medium/long term. The media deal in 2020 is likely to be much much lower with not only interest down but it will also be significantly impacted by the expected reductions in broadcast rights values across all sports on a global level.

Ideally, we would see some proactive strategic thought from the ARU but that seems rather optimistic at this point.

We need to work out what we need from a domestic competition in the long term and start to move towards that. The next 5-10 years are likely to be a struggle for Australian rugby whatever happens, it just will be better if it is planned rather than forced upon us.

Either leave Super Rugby now, keep the 5 teams and leave at the end of the broadcast period or drop a team but making it very very clear that it is a short term thing and that the future is not Super Rugby (best view is to merge the Rebels / Brumbies and play 4 games in each city. It isn't ideal but would be ok for a few years).

In addition, I'd look at trying a real "Super Rugby" competition which would be more along a champions league (if NZ and SA are at all interested).

Domestically, bring in a Club champions cup (for the champions of all of the club competitions) and probably also a FFA style knock out open to any club.

 

[Moono75]

I'm sorry Redshappy. I agree with most of your posts but the statement that the Rebels have been performing to substandard outcomes for some time is twaddle.

Let's look at 2016 - how many games did the Rebels win last year? 7 - more than the Reds and Force put together (3 wins for the Reds, 2 for the force).

How about 2015 then . the Rebels won 7 games equal to the total of the Reds and the Force together (4 for the Reds, 3 for the Force).


Yes, the Rebels have been crap this year (injuries haven't helped), but over the past 3 seasons they have won 15 games compared to 10 for the Reds and 8 for the Force.

And I note that we know that the Reds had $1.05 million of top ups in 2016 and the Rebels only $120k. So if the Rebels have been very sub-standard then what does that make the Force and Reds?

I didn't realise counting the last 3 years means all of 2015, 2016 and only some of 2017. You must operate on your own special calendar. Please don't talk to us about injuries.....we have had more than our share. I dare say our crowds have been higher, our management resourceful in trying new funding streams, our fans proactive in backing the team financially and we have a major sponsor. I would say that makes us backable, sustainable and retainable.

 

[Brumby Runner]

With retaining all five franchises now looking to be a real possibility, what would that mean over the next 2 - 3 year for each of them?

Will the Force prove to be financially viable with the Own the Force model?

Will the Brumbies be able to post some small surpluses and remain viable?

Probably no issues for either of the Tahs or Reds - they are too big to be allowed to fail.

But what for the Rebels? Will the private ownership continue in the face of consistent and ever larger losses as the ARU funding agreement winds down and then disappears? At what point do the private owners make a commercial decision to up stakes and pull out?