Where to for Super Rugby?

[ChargerWA]

I had a moment of clarity while driving this morning. I was on the fence as to if Aus Rugby can support 5 teams, but then I realised the only reason we can't is if the ARU just choose to take the easy way to out. No doubt dropping to 4 teams will give all of the remaining 4 teams a little boost, but it's the cheats way. It's the way you'd choose to go if you don't have the heart for the fight. To do the hard yards and fix the sport the proper way. Grow the base, support grass roots and not sell us all short.

In summary, fuck the ARU. We need a massive sweep out and then fill those positions with blokes who have the heart for the fight and want to do it the right way. Not blokes who went to the right school and have the right mates.

 

[ChargerWA]

And Cox could help us all by being a little more visible. His disappearing act is doing more harm to the Rebels cause than anything else.

 

[half]

Where To For Super Rugby, is an interesting question, in the past I have mercilessly attacked the ARU for their miss management of the game. Change of tack but not conclusion.

For the last 12 years we have been in competition [for want of a better word] with soccer. How has the ARU management compared to FFA.

FFA having 8 foundation teams, coming off going broke, never really having a broadcast contract with average crowds in the NSL of around 3.4K and a very hostile media.

FFA started their 8 team competition with a one million dollar media deal on Fox and averaged about 22K per match. Crowds averages a tad over 10k.

The ARU at this time was screaming crowd averages around 27K, and Fox rating challenging the NRL and AFL.

Even five years ago our metrics were not that bad. The Reds challenged the Broncos in Brisbane and the Tahs ruled Moore Park.

Today our Australian teams [Reds Tahs etc] ratings I think are about 51K and that’s of reported matches, if we assume the matches not reported are lower our rating would be closer me thinks to 45K or less and falling, our crowds are 12.3 k or there about’s and falling. And the Tahs that crowd reported against the Blues of over 18 k FFS maybe 7k at best,- that’s when you know you’re in trouble.

So where has Blinky Bill and his mates at the ARU board taken us. Lets compare this season our figures above with soccer our main competition.

I asked a mate/client [the one that owns the small media company operating out of the Central Coast] for FFA key data this year on Fox ratings, crowds and some notes.

After reading what’s below from our direct competition does anyone think Blinky & the current ARU board’s rein should see out the week. We win arguably Socceroo V Wallaby and that’s maybe as their big matches are about to start, and I am not sure if we win on Fox but I think we do.

Tis interesting what he sent me and this guy is very hard core soccer supporter, a foundation member of the Central Coast Mariners.

We had coffee over his 2016 tax return last week and as usual after a while we starting talking sport as coffee turned into lunch and a bottle of Hunter Red at the Gosford Sailing club. To his figures he sent me and I assume are right.

A-League across 140 games including 5 games in the finals
Fox average 67.4k up 17%
Crowds 12.6 K down 0.45% essentially no change i.e less than half of 1%.
Membership in 2016/17 was 117,415, the highest ever recorded, 7% up on last year.

FFA Cup, covered by Fox 30 games, 25 games are multi coverage of a number of games however there 5 matches broadcast as a single match with ratings of 64k, 41k, 46k, 85k, 153 k, - average across these 5 matches 77.8k

Average crowd across the 30 games is 3.5k

Remember the early games are essentially teams from their NPL some examples provided below
Hume City v Marconi
FNQ Heat v Edgeworth
Canberra Olympic v Surfers Paradise Apollo
Bonnyrig White Eagles v Manly United

National side – Socceroos
Across 8 games including friendlies and low level Asia sides with some matches overseas some played 3:00 in the morning.
Fox average ratings 140k overall Fox rating for matches played in Australia 175k, overseas matches 82k.
Crowd average 38.4 k.

 

[Leo86]

I'm sorry Redshappy. I agree with most of your posts but the statement that the Rebels have been performing to substandard outcomes for some time is twaddle.

Let's look at 2016 - how many games did the Rebels win last year? 7 - more than the Reds and Force put together (3 wins for the Reds, 2 for the force).

How about 2015 then . the Rebels won 7 games equal to the total of the Reds and the Force together (4 for the Reds, 3 for the Force).


Yes, the Rebels have been crap this year (injuries haven't helped), but over the past 3 seasons they have won 15 games compared to 10 for the Reds and 8 for the Force.

And I note that we know that the Reds had $1.05 million of top ups in 2016 and the Rebels only $120k. So if the Rebels have been very sub-standard then what does that make the Force and Reds?

And we include 2014

Rebels at 19 wins
Reds at 15 wins
Force at 17 wins

Rebels still leading but doesnt make as much of an impact those numbers i suppose.

 

[BLR]

And we include 2014

Rebels at 19 wins
Reds at 15 wins
Force at 17 wins

Rebels still leading but doesnt make as much of an impact those numbers i suppose.

I wonder what the financials during those years would be as well?

 

[KOB1987]

From Slim's mate this morning:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...d/news-story/49b9d3325cf7715a182f4aa681661e34

The RUPA vote was taken by the 13-member board that included, significantly, five members of Australia’s 2015 World Cup final team: Wallabies captain Stephen Moore, RUPA president Dean Mumm, James Slipper, Scott Sio and Bernard Foley. So this revolt is player driven.
But perhaps the bravest stand of all was taken by Western Force captain Matt Hodgson. If the meeting succeeds in taking the pressure off the Melbourne Rebels, it could swing back onto the other club nominated by the ARU as potentially to be axed, the Force. By voting for the proposal, however, Hodgson has signalled his belief Australian rugby has had enough of the uncertainty.
It might also bring about what Wallabies coach Michael Cheika has been alluding to this week, the possible survival of all five Australian teams. Clyne insisted the ARU did not have a fallback plan of telling SANZAAR it was all too hard. “We are just focusing on working towards our stated position of having four teams.”

 

[Quick Hands]

 

[refugee]

Clyne says 90% of his mail is for 4 teams-- I call "bullshit'

 

[wamberal]

Half,

We are not in competition with the FFA.


We are in competition with reality.

 

[Rebels3]

Half,

We are not in competition with the FFA.


We are in competition with reality.

We all understand that, but you cant just boot someone out. They are the Australian Rugby Union, its their duty to take care of the interests of all stakeholders. I think most people deep down understand and are for the Super presence being cut down the 4, but you can't simply cut someone and then basically pretend that they no longer exist, which is what we fear and probably will happen. We (Force and Rebels fans) would like to see something that involves us or can improve us as it is, and i'm not talking about a token gesture of one team moving a single super rugby game to Melbourne or Perth. Just like the SARU is looking at the idea of moving their teams into the Pro12, how about some open dialogue of moving some teams into the NPC (ITM Cup), demand something in return from those wanting to cut our teams. We all want to know what the future holds for our states and it's rugby presence going forward, none of this lets cut them and they will probably never ever (yep never ever) have a professional rugby side again.

It's a fine line the ARU has to walk when cutting a team and what happens in that region, the line is between yes we will provide a Western Australian or Victorian team in this competition going forward with a professional presence plus sufficient amount of games (the good side of the line) and (the horrendous, looks most likely side of the line) the Brumbies will play the Kings bull shit in Perth or Melbourne once a season and we will guarantee one wallabies test (probably against Tonga or someone along those lines) crap that will be offered...... No thanks, they can shove that up their bums.

 

[James Pettifer]

I didn't realise counting the last 3 years means all of 2015, 2016 and only some of 2017. You must operate on your own special calendar. Please don't talk to us about injuries...we have had more than our share. I dare say our crowds have been higher, our management resourceful in trying new funding streams, our fans proactive in backing the team financially and we have a major sponsor. I would say that makes us backable, sustainable and retainable.

I'm not attacking the Force. I think the Force should stay and if I would contribute to Own the Force if it didn't sacrifice the Rebels.

Lets go back to 2011. The Force have won 28 games and the Rebels 31 games. Neither is great but for someone to say that the Rebels should be dropped because of their substandard performance is not particularly fair.

 

[Twoilms]

 

[Blue]

Can't believe people are even discussing thoughts of the decision being reversed. No way SANZAAAAR is going to reverse its decision.

What is most obvious is that the ARU sat in SANZAAR meetings and agreed to this plan without really considering the fact that they had a potential fuck*p of gargantuan proportions on their hands.

Gobsmackingly unbelievable. Eyepoppingly unfathomable, Blunder of note.

In real life senior management people get given a card board box and directions to the front door for screwing on a much, much smaller scale.

 

[formerflanker]

In real life senior management people get given a card board box and directions to the front door for screwing on a much, much smaller scale.

Don't forget the "escort".

 

[RedsHappy]

From Slim's mate this morning:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...d/news-story/49b9d3325cf7715a182f4aa681661e34

The RUPA vote was taken by the 13-member board that included, significantly, five members of Australia’s 2015 World Cup final team: Wallabies captain Stephen Moore, RU..........

My personal favourites from that article (emphasis added):

"Australian Rugby Union chairman Cameron Clyne insists the national body is not floundering in the task of reducing Australia’s Super Rugby presence from five teams to four, despite a special general meeting being called to debate its procedures.​

​

........​

​

One of the six items to be voted on will be a full disclosure of how the ARU went about its strategic review, which suggests the VRU or RUPA believes information has been withheld from members. Although there is no motion of no-confidence in Clyne, his board or CEO Bill Pulver, it could well be that if the meeting completely disavows what the ARU has set out to do, resignations could follow.​

​

But Clyne took issue with the question from The Australian that the process had been botched and the ARU seemed to be floundering.​

​

“Nothing could be more incorrect,” Clyne said. “We haven’t botched the process ... we have been very clear about how the process is being run but a lot of that has got lost. There is no floundering. We are responding to people who are desperate to stay in the competition.”​

It's all laid out there for us is it not: the blatant denial of reality, the high-handed arrogance, the refusal to accept constructive (and demonstrably valid) criticism, the refusal to accept accountability, the lack of prior and proper transparency in what is a community sports code, etc.

What a total joke: 'we have been very clear about how this process is being run but a lot of that has got lost'. Yeah, like the Titanic got lost.

The values espoused and actual, as-practiced of the ARU board leadership are separated by a Pacific Ocean of self-deceit and perpetual denial.

No enterprise's calibre, culture and success over time will ever exceed the nature and capabilities of its most senior leadership.

Let us all pause and understand why Australian rugby is in the parlous state it is.

 

[RedsHappy]

Half,

We are not in competition with the FFA.

We are in competition with reality.

If you seriously believe that you have zero appreciation of the 'sports codes battle of kids (and schools) commitment to play or preference or most support football code X or Y ' taking place in most Australian public and private schools, and it's been this way for at least 10-15 years.

It's clearly known by all here that kids' school sporting experience and code choice has a massive downstream impact on the magnitude and depth of that code in later years. That's why the best-run codes _start_ the strategic, long-game competitive process in the schools system.

Soccer and AFL have in general been winning this battle and even today the ARU's inexcusable, total neglect of its biggest schools feeder system - rugby-playing GPS schools - is causing a number of them to reconsider the historically prominent role rugby is playing in their winter sports programs.

 

[Twoilms]

If you seriously believe that you have zero appreciation of the 'sports codes battle of kids (and schools) commitment to play or preference or most support football code X or Y ' taking place in most Australian public and private schools, and it's been this way for at least 10-15 years.

It's clearly known by all here that kids' school sporting experience and code choice has a massive downstream impact on the magnitude and depth of that code in later years. That's why the best-run codes _start_ the strategic, long-game competitive process in the schools system.

Soccer and AFL have in general been winning this battle and even today the ARU's inexcusable, total neglect of its biggest schools feeder system - rugby-playing GPS schools - is causing a number of them to reconsider the historically prominent role rugby is playing in their winter sports programs.

Few exciting youngsters are emerging in an A-League dominated by veterans and foreigners.

 

[blues recovery]

My personal favourites from that article (emphasis added):

"Australian Rugby Union chairman Cameron Clyne insists the national body is not floundering in the task of reducing Australia’s Super Rugby presence from five teams to four, despite a special general meeting being called to debate its procedures.​

​

....​

​

One of the six items to be voted on will be a full disclosure of how the ARU went about its strategic review, which suggests the VRU or RUPA believes information has been withheld from members. Although there is no motion of no-confidence in Clyne, his board or CEO Bill Pulver, it could well be that if the meeting completely disavows what the ARU has set out to do, resignations could follow.​

​

But Clyne took issue with the question from The Australian that the process had been botched and the ARU seemed to be floundering.​

​

“Nothing could be more incorrect,” Clyne said. “We haven’t botched the process . we have been very clear about how the process is being run but a lot of that has got lost. There is no floundering. We are responding to people who are desperate to stay in the competition.”​

It's all laid out there for us is it not: the blatant denial of reality, the high-handed arrogance, the refusal to accept constructive (and demonstrably valid) criticism, the refusal to accept accountability, the lack of prior and proper transparency in what is a community sports code, etc.

What a total joke: 'we have been very clear about how this process is being run but a lot of that has got lost'. Yeah, like the Titanic got lost.

The values espoused and actual, as-practiced of the ARU board leadership are separated by a Pacific Ocean of self-deceit and perpetual denial.

No enterprise's calibre, culture and success over time will ever exceed the nature and capabilities of its most senior leadership.

Let us all pause and understand why Australian rugby is in the parlous state it is.

I thought I'd reached the limit of my levels of anger and disappointment through this crap .
Well I'm wrong this takes the cake .
And I'm going to get personal because these comments deserve it .
Clyne you out of touch , arrogant , supercilious poonce . I know your some frigging hero used to sprouting bull shit and thinking all will just nod and go along
How can you possibly say you haven't botched this process . 48 to 72 hours you say for a decision. See ya later Force . Oh hang on legal injunction . See you Rebels .
Oh hang on we have a binding agreement ?? Then absolute radio silence .
How about an apology to the broad Australian Rugby stakeholder group for your fuck up that has made the game we love a national laughing stock . Same at international Rugby levels .
Tim North and the other good folk behind this EGM turf this arrogant clown out at the first opportunity.
Moron

 

[refugee]

Lots of blame here

Now lets have a solution or two to debate on here.

I am for 5 teams playing each other in the first part of the season with the three top teams playing in a revamped super played later in the season.

Next

 

[Twoilms]

Lots of blame here

Now lets have a solution or two to debate on here.

I am for 5 teams playing each other in the first part of the season with the three top teams playing in a revamped super played later in the season.

Next

What exactly is the point in discussing what we would want/like to see. We all know none of it will eventuate and the ARU will continue to be the shittest fluffybunnys ever.