Where to for Super Rugby?

[ChargerWA]

I only became aware of that from that article also, so I'm not sure of the mechanism.

Do they have to sell the IP back if RugbyWA can come up with ~$900,000 the ARU kicked in? Of can the ARU set their own price. Is it something in between. Who fucking knows. But if it was a simple as coming up with $900K that would be well within the realms of the Own The Force campaign if share sales are as healthy as has been suggested.

What makes me suspicious though is the way the Own The Force prospectus was worded. It makes it pretty clear that the aim of the campaign is to SEEK ownership back from the ARU. It's certainly not written as a fait accompli if the minimum subscription is reached.

 

[Mr Doug]

do you think? I can see that argument in Sailor, Tuqiri, Folau and Rogers. Event Hunt. Just don't quite see fans flocking in to see Cronk.

"Cooper Cronk is too small to succeed in Rugby"!

 

[Strewthcobber]

Do they actually "own" the Force? Or is the arrangement slightly more complex than that?

From the Own he Force Prospectus

During the 2015 season the Australian Rugby Union acquired the intellectual property rights in the Western Force and then in 2016 the Australian Rugby Union entered into a sale agreement with RugbyWA whereby it acquired all of the assets and business associated with the Western Force.

6.14 The Company does not operate or own the Western Force. As at the date of this Prospectus, the Western Force is owned and operated by Australian Rugby Union.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Do they have to sell the IP back if RugbyWA can come up with ~$900,000 the ARU kicked in? Of can the ARU set their own price. Is it something in between. Who fucking knows. But if it was a simple as coming up with $900K that would be well within the realms of the Own The Force campaign if share sales are as healthy as has been suggested.

The option (if it exists?) would only be for RugbyWA and not the Own the Force entity though right?

Edit - from the prospectus again

No material assets or commitment from the Australian Rugby Union: The Company, as at the date of the Prospectus, does not hold any material assets. The Company does not have any commitments from the Australian Rugby Union that it will grant the operating licence or transfer any other assets relating to the Western Force to the Company, or as to the terms on which any such transaction may proceed. If the Company is not able to secure an agreement for the transfer of the relevant operating licence and assets from the Australian Rugby Union on terms satisfactory to the Company, it will not have any assets or undertaking, aside from the funds raised under this Public Offer (less any expenses paid in relation to the Public Offer and professional and administrative costs relating to negotiations with the Australian Rugby Union).


There is no indicative price to acquire the operating licence and associated assets from the Australian Rugby Union.

 

[Dave Beat]

Down watching some park rugby today, and i thought i over heard international referee Angus Gardner say that was more enjoyable to ref than Soup Rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

I only became aware of that from that article also, so I'm not sure of the mechanism.

Do they have to sell the IP back if RugbyWA can come up with ~$900,000 the ARU kicked in? Of can the ARU set their own price. Is it something in between. Who fucking knows. But if it was a simple as coming up with $900K that would be well within the realms of the Own The Force campaign if share sales are as healthy as has been suggested.

What makes me suspicious though is the way the Own The Force prospectus was worded. It makes it pretty clear that the aim of the campaign is to SEEK ownership back from the ARU. It's certainly not written as a fait accompli if the minimum subscription is reached.

What you guys need to remember is that the people that you are dealing with are flat out making it to work on a Monday morning. Everyday that you are still in, it's more likely that you'll stay in IMO.

Keep the fight up. We're all with you (or most of us anyway). And it's a bit of a badge of honour having the ARU against you. They've been against the Sydney Rugby Union for a few years now and the harder the ARU try to make life difficult, the stronger and more successful that the SRU become.

I wouldn't trust these guys to organise a birthday party for 6 year olds let alone a professional sporting body.

 

[BLR]

So, according to Tony McGahan, 8-9 weeks until a decision to be made, 'Own the Force' ends around that time.

Perhaps the ARU are waiting to see what cash they can get from the Own the Force buy-back and then use that to buy out Cox?

It would be pretty horrible though if we stump up all this money and the ARU raise the price of the ownership so we are stuck in the same situation ongoing of being the broke unloved child of the ARU after all this work.

 

[James Pettifer]

So, according to Tony McGahan, 8-9 weeks until a decision to be made, 'Own the Force' ends around that time.

Perhaps the ARU are waiting to see what cash they can get from the Own the Force buy-back and then use that to buy out Cox?

It would be pretty horrible though if we stump up all this money and the ARU raise the price of the ownership so we are stuck in the same situation ongoing of being the broke unloved child of the ARU after all this work.

And when do we get to Own the Rebels?

I'm sure we could clear a significant amount of money for that. If he wants to sell, then I'm sure we can raise some money for it.

Even better, if the ARU said that we would keep 5 teams of a certain amount was raised then I think fans combined would get there easily.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Down watching some park rugby today, and i thought i over heard international referee Angus Gardner say that was more enjoyable to ref than Soup Rugby.

Probably because he wasn't out of his depth

 

[Leo86]

Im pretty certain a part of the "alliance" was that both parties had to act in the interest of the Force. Meaning they couldnt replace our CEO with their own to shut us down, but also they shouldnt be trying to shut us down. So maybe thats the legal fight is Untill 2020 broadcast deal or that you breached contract by not acting in our interest so we'll take our IP back and continue on as being owned by RWA. But im just a blue collar rugby supporter so i could be wrong but ive read alot in the last few months and thats my only confusion is where to reference what anymore.

 

[daz]

I was under the impression that $2M loss was a best case scenario?
In any event $2M is not chump change that can easily dismissed as money well spent on a hobby.
Having turnover of $100M is vastly different to having a business that has $100M excess cash flow.
It really annoys me when people suggest that a tax write off equals no cost.
It doesn't, a $2M loss means you lose lose $1.4M & the tax man subsidises the other $600k.

I never said it had no cost. I merely hypothesised that maybe a 2m loss in the Rebels business, or whatever the number is, is acceptable. Especially if he can use the Rebels to generate revenue in his other businesses, such as TGIF and his hotels. Just a bit of fluffy thinking, nothing for you to get really annoyed about, I wouldnt have thought.

 

[Rebels3]

I never said it had no cost. I merely hypothesised that maybe a 2m loss in the Rebels business, or whatever the number is, is acceptable. Especially if he can use the Rebels to generate revenue in his other businesses, such as TGIF and his hotels. Just a bit of fluffy thinking, nothing for you to get really annoyed about, I wouldnt have thought.

Spent $315 tonight at TGI's southbank.

Overall the situation with cox isn't as simple as 'he's losing money, will accept a payout' as many wanting to lean towards that narrative think it is, and it's not as hard as many of us rebels fans think it will be. Like most things in life, find somewhere between the two extremes and you have your answer.

 

[The torpedo]

This whole situation could've been avoided if the ARU said "no" at the meeting to vote on whether to cut a team

 

[James Pettifer]

This whole situation could've been avoided if the ARU said "no" at the meeting to vote on whether to cut a team

And perhaps just decided to go to a round robin system.

If there are massive financial problems then they need to engage with the community. I want Super Rugby teams in Melbourne and Perth and would commit towards that end.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The problem is, it appears to have been Bill and Cameron's idea to cut a team!

 

[Quick Hands]

This whole situation could've been avoided if the ARU said "no" at the meeting to vote on whether to cut a team

But it would seem that they went to the meeting with no plan (let alone a plan B) and were taken by surprise. Presuming that SANZAAR circulate an agenda including items for discussion, it's hard to believe that a competent organisation would go to such a meeting so unprepared, but we are talking about the ARU.



The Australians, so the story goes, were caught out a few months ago when the Sanzaar partners met in London to determine what should happen with Super Rugby next year.
The Australians knew that the option of cutting three teams was gathering support, but they thought there was no way on earth the South Africans would be willing to do their bit as per the proposal and be the ones to take the brunt and drop two
When the South Africans agreed, the Australians were suddenly reeling because they had not done the groundwork to assess whether they could fulfil their part of the bargain and cut one team.
They had no idea what that process would look like nor which team would be on the chopping block.

And my personal favorite part of the article






To everyone else they will appear grossly incompetent but given their track record and the fact most Australians appear to have such low expectations of them, that hardly seems a disastrous outcome.
They were bumbling no-hopers when all this started and they will be bumbling no-hopers when it all finishes " but the important thing will be that Australia still has five teams in Super Rugby.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11854985

 

[TOCC]

Some heroic assumptions there. Whatever happened to "caveat emptor"?


If he bought a pup, he can hardly evince surprise when it pees on his carpet. And, by the way, how many examples are there of private ownership generating a profit in Australian sport?


There are failed ventures everywhere you look.

You're an ARU apologists who think they can do no wrong, i would expect no less from you Wamberal, using a puppy as an analogy highlights the ridiculousness of the ARU's actions.

ARU have completely fucked the code in this country through their own failure to conduct proper due diligence and establish a buisness case which supported their own flaky ambitions.

 

[RedsHappy]

The problem is, it appears to have been Bill and Cameron's idea to cut a team!

Quite so.

These two have publicly stated that the ARU went to the March London meeting positively advocating culling an Australian Super team.

I think on one recent occasion they even said something like 'don't blame SANZAAR, this was our recommendation as we've concluded 5 teams is simply not viable for us (and we've been concerned about the viability of 5 teams since 2011).'

 

[Quick Hands]

Quite so.

These two have publicly stated that the ARU went to the March London meeting positively advocating culling an Australian Super team.

I think on one recent occasion they even said something like 'don't blame SANZAAR, this was our recommendation as we've concluded 5 teams is simply not viable for us (and we've been concerned about the viability of 5 teams since 2011).'

Even though as recently as 2016 Pulver was also publicly spruiking 5 Australian teams as part of his crusade for expansion to S18 (of which he apparently was one of the main cheerleaders). One of his quotations was something like "you can't shrink your was to success" (the exact words escape me)

 

[wamberal]

You're an ARU apologists who think they can do no wrong, i would expect no less from you Wamberal, using a puppy as an analogy highlights the ridiculousness of the ARU's actions.

Maybe you mean you "expect no better" from me. That's okay by me. I have been insulted by experts.


I do enjoy a robust discussion. Although I would like to see a bit more fact, and a bit less imagination.