Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Hamish seems is leading the fight. Like what he is saying per what quoted in this article.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-from-trans-tasman-rugby-20210523-p57uf1.html

Wonder if twiggys private capital arm lead contender for PE investment as constitutional reform was key condition for his investment

So Hamish likes the idea of central contracting too, which pretty much rules out any idea of open border policies as some have suggested it would seem. But I like what he saying.

 

[Derpus]

McLellan is great but it's all too little late.

 

[Dan54]

“They’re disappointing results but I’m unfazed with regards to our mission. If we want to be the world’s best, we have to beat the world’s best. And New Zealand has the best provincial rugby sides in the world,” McLennan told the Herald.

Geez if he said that he maybe just reading my posts about Aus (and NZ) rugby cannot just play lesser teams to make them look good!!

 

[Dctarget]

Just look at Italy in the Six Nations. 21 years and they've probably regressed. They've probably got a win record that matches ours in Super rugby against NZ teams. Winning like 15% of their games. Playing teams so much better than them have done fuck all for their development.

 

[Dan54]

Just look at Italy in the Six Nations. 21 years and they've probably regressed. They've probably got a win record that matches ours in Super rugby against NZ teams. Winning like 15% of their games. Playing teams so much better than them have done fuck all for their development.

No? Don't know if you saw Italian rugby before that.And not sure if they regressed or others have come on by quite some distance in last 10 years or so. And they also need to match their club teams in better comps, you can't do it with just playing a few tests a year, they learn bugger all in 5 games, and then they back to not having to fight.

But when quoting what is supposed Hamish's words, I think we have to realise many don't want to be the world's best, just the best in Aus I suppose.

 

[hifflepiff]

Just look at Italy in the Six Nations. 21 years and they've probably regressed. They've probably got a win record that matches ours in Super rugby against NZ teams. Winning like 15% of their games. Playing teams so much better than them have done fuck all for their development.

The sports also gone backwards in the country since they've joined the Six Nations. Just look at the crowds they got in the 2000s v now.

 

[Micheal]

“They’re disappointing results but I’m unfazed with regards to our mission. If we want to be the world’s best, we have to beat the world’s best. And New Zealand has the best provincial rugby sides in the world,” McLennan told the Herald.

Geez if he said that he maybe just reading my posts about Aus (and NZ) rugby cannot just play lesser teams to make them look good!!

I so don’t understand this argument.

Playing better teams - Eg the Kiwi Super Rugby teams - will make us better?

We’ve played New Zealand’s test side literally 10X more than any other test side in the world over the last decade.

We’ve played the Kiwi Super Rugby sides far more than the SA sides, or any other club teams.

We’ve gone backwards the entire time. Why would this be different? At least I enjoyed SRAU. I’m not tuning in to many more TT games at this rate.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Just look at Italy in the Six Nations. 21 years and they've probably regressed. They've probably got a win record that matches ours in Super rugby against NZ teams. Winning like 15% of their games. Playing teams so much better than them have done fuck all for their development.

All sport in Italy has suffered due to a massive economic and demographic shift. Their football has also suffered, Inter, Milan, and Juventus are shadows of their former selves. It's not a good example.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

I so don’t understand this argument.

Playing better teams - Eg the Kiwi Super Rugby teams - will make us better?

We’ve played New Zealand’s test side literally 10X more than any other test side in the world over the last decade.

We’ve played the Kiwi Super Rugby sides far more than the SA sides, or any other club teams.

We’ve gone backwards the entire time. Why would this be different? At least I enjoyed SRAU. I’m not tuning in to many more TT games at this rate.

Only one side has a better record against NZ than Australia - South Africa. We even have a better win % than the Lions.

We were also playing NZ sides for our two world cup wins. Hardly sliding the entire time.

 

[Dan54]

I so don’t understand this argument.

Playing better teams - Eg the Kiwi Super Rugby teams - will make us better?

We’ve played New Zealand’s test side literally 10X more than any other test side in the world over the last decade.

We’ve played the Kiwi Super Rugby sides far more than the SA sides, or any other club teams.

We’ve gone backwards the entire time. Why would this be different? At least I enjoyed SRAU. I’m not tuning in to many more TT games at this rate.

But have you gone backwards the entire time? We will never know for sure, but I suspect not. You play each other you will fall into trap of only having to beat each other. Remember when it started you had 3 teams, now you got 5?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

McLellan is great but it's all too little late.

Better now then not at all.

Cant change the past...PE investment as always I have always stated is the catalyst for change (given scale of change needed based on where we are etc etc)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

So Hamish likes the idea of central contracting too, which pretty much rules out any idea of open border policies as some have suggested it would seem. But I like what he saying.

Probably because nzru have made it clear they will never accept open borders policy which I begrundingly accepted would be nzru’s position. Hamish had in early days indicated open to open borders policy, but suspect meetings with nzru counterparts have slammed shut that idea.

 

[hifflepiff]

One thing I find interesting about these discussions is the apparent age difference between those on either side of the debate. Now obviously this is speculative, and generalised, but when talking about domestic v TT (both here and irl), those that advocate for a solely TT comp seem to be a fair bit older than those that want a domestic comp/domestic + TT. Perhaps the old blokes have more positive memories of TT Rugby compared to those of us that are younger?

What I can tell you is that as someone in their mid-20’s, the association people in my age group have with Union (and Super Rugby in particular) tends to be overwhelmingly negative.

Even amongst those that are Union fans, most don’t have many good memories of Super Rugby. The one that comes up all the time Is the 2015 Tahs win. 2011 might as well be ancient history. One, maybe two, positive memories of our main professional competition in the past decade is pretty fucking terrible.The primary emotions associated with the competition seem to be failure, disappointment and eventually apathy. It’s no wonder nobody below the age of 45 is interested.

Interestingly, the only time I’ve seen people get around Union was during Super AU. I actually had non-rugby fans wanting to go to a game of their own accord, which I can genuinely say I’ve never seen before in my adult life. That’s completely dropped off again two weeks into TT.

Now this is all obviously pretty anecdotal, but what I'll finish by pointing out that it’s near impossible to get non-Rugby people (i.e. a large part of the Australian population now days) interested in the sport when our premier professional competition involves Aus teams getting blown out week after week. It’s just an objectively shit way to spend your Friday/Saturday night.

 

[KOB1987]

Just look at Italy in the Six Nations. 21 years and they've probably regressed. They've probably got a win record that matches ours in Super rugby against NZ teams. Winning like 15% of their games. Playing teams so much better than them have done fuck all for their development.

If we are going to insist on playing NZ provincial teams as part of our development, we need to be winning. There are two ways we can do this - the first is to play them with 2 or 3 representative teams at the back end of the domestic comp as discussed here a couple of pages back. The second is to import players, which is something we can do at a domestic level that Italy doesn't have the luxury of doing. The inference McLellan is making is that we are going to be allowed 3 marquee foreign players per franchise, as well as starting to bring some of our better exports home. Obviously we need money to do this, which is presumably going to come from the PE deal firstly, and then from hosting the Lions and the RWC later on.

 

[Juan Cote]

I would rather watch NZ teams play than Aust teams as the standard of rugby is so much better. The argument of regressing the comp to five teams Aus teams is Banana Republic type stuff in my view. The fact we can't beat NZ teams isn't a valid argument for not trying anymore.

 

[Rebel man]

One thing I find interesting about these discussions is the apparent age difference between those on either side of the debate. Now obviously this is speculative, and generalised, but when talking about domestic v TT (both here and irl), those that advocate for a solely TT comp seem to be a fair bit older than those that want a domestic comp/domestic + TT. Perhaps the old blokes have more positive memories of TT Rugby compared to those of us that are younger?

What I can tell you is that as someone in their mid-20’s, the association people in my age group have with Union (and Super Rugby in particular) tends to be overwhelmingly negative.

Even amongst those that are Union fans, most don’t have many good memories of Super Rugby. The one that comes up all the time Is the 2015 Tahs win. 2011 might as well be ancient history. One, maybe two, positive memories of our main professional competition in the past decade is pretty fucking terrible.The primary emotions associated with the competition seem to be failure, disappointment and eventually apathy. It’s no wonder nobody below the age of 45 is interested.

Interestingly, the only time I’ve seen people get around Union was during Super AU. I actually had non-rugby fans wanting to go to a game of their own accord, which I can genuinely say I’ve never seen before in my adult life. That’s completely dropped off again two weeks into TT.

Now this is all obviously pretty anecdotal, but what I'll finish by pointing out that it’s near impossible to get non-Rugby people (i.e. a large part of the Australian population now days) interested in the sport when our premier professional competition involves Aus teams getting blown out week after week. It’s just an objectively shit way to spend your Friday/Saturday night.

I am in my 20s and haven’t missed a game this year. Rebels maybe shit but you have to be loyal. You aren’t going to get people interested in a 5 team comp where 3 sides make the finals. Most blokes I know view that as a joke.

Sport isn’t always full of happy endings you got to front up and take a loss and move forward

 

[Rebel man]

I would rather watch NZ teams play than Aust teams as the standard of rugby is so much better. The argument of regressing the comp to five teams Aus teams is Banana Republic type stuff in my view. The fact we can't beat NZ teams isn't a valid argument for not trying anymore.

And it will just make it even more satisfying when an Aus side does win. We have been making good progress at age group level. But you have to wait for these boys to become men and he experienced members of our sides

 

[Derpus]

Didn't take long for all that early season positivity to get forcibly sucked out our arseholes and shot back into our face with a giant 'fuck you' canon.

 

[hifflepiff]

Didn't take long for all that early season positivity to get forcibly sucked out our arseholes and shot back into our face with a giant 'fuck you' canon.

At the end of the day professional sport is entertainment and entertainment is about selling a narrative. Super AU is an easy, positive narrative to sell. You get loads of great domestic rivalries, a home grandfinal to build up to every year and close competitive footy.

TT by comparison has a shit narrative for Australian audiences. You're already seeing this in the media coverage around the competiton.

We're getting blown out by random Kiwi teams no one outside of expats and Rugby tragics give a fuck about.
Its a terrible look for the sport and from an entertainment perspective its awful. Most people will tune out.

 

[Rebels3]

For those interested in shares I believe RA need to look at this like a portfolio. The problem with a full TT comp is its a poor diversification strategy as is high potential for none of your investments can get a return and lose value, but equally all your investments can get a large return if it turns out positive.

Most portfolios will have some stable investments that aren't as volatile. Hence why keeping SRAU is the way forward, with another comp against other teams to supplement it (most likely NZ teams). This years format is what i believe will be roughly what remains with Fiji joining SRAU and Pacifica joining SRAo and pehaps a tweak to TT where the top 3 from each comp plays each other home and away and then the bottom 3 in another comp home and away.

SRAU will be our stable investment with a guaranteed return and any TT comp on top will be the volatile investment to provide the cream on top. If it flops you still have the moderate return of the other investments to bank on