Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

The suggestion today of a pool system for excess Kiwi players is interesting, we want competitive teams and to reduce talent hoarding

I would go further, it would be good to see the TT use the the current Kiwi super system for all teams, that is, each team only gets to have say 25 protected players, the rest of the players dropped in a pool where any side can pick them up as a "protected player" or go into a draft for the outer squad of any team

I actually like that idea fatprop, but you as long as none tries a draft system I could see that working, although really that is case now, anyone can come and play in Aus now.

 

[fatprop]

They are selling media content, it is all about getting the balance right between quality and total hours to fill with ads

 

[dru]

We all know the on-field product will be better if we cut a team, but the on-field product isn't everything to us.

That is the narrative but I find it sophistry. Cutting teams just increases the number of Australian players in the NH or in League. What builds better quality requires longer term action. The only way to get their earlier is to start the process earlier:

On field product does receive a sugar hit of increased quality from cutting but it is a one off not a sustained effect. The actual sustained impact is a reduction is $ with the reduction in quality and a "shrink to greatness" feedback loop.

We desperately need to get out of that loop.

How good is simply turning on the TV every Friday and Saturday evening and picking up rugby of interest? Long may it last.

Both countries have different goalposts here.

This certainly. We probably need to prepare ourselves that a TT may not be viable should RA stand by Aussie requirements and NZR stand by Kiwi requirements. COVID may anyway force a solution that does not involve TT for the bulk of the season, so both sides of the Tasman may as wello prepare for alternatives.

Super 8 is a logical position for all, but we should understand that we would end up in competition with NZR in looking to expand any domestic competition through PI teams and the like.

I think it is exciting times.

 

[fatprop]

I actually like that idea fatprop, but you as long as none tries a draft system I could see that working, although really that is case now, anyone can come and play in Aus now.

It would be a sort of draft system (as you can't really force players) but most would want a play somewhere they are actually wanted

I think it could go both ways with a few Aussie players being picked up by Kiwi sides as well, you guys need props

As long as selection eligibility is tweaked so the Wobs & ABs can select any eligible player in the whole comp, it could work

 

[Number 7]

I mean as for looking backwards, doesn't everyone? Isn't that the whole point of this thread

No.

I think the point of the thread is to look forwards and discuss the best option for the future - acknowledge the past but dont be a slave to it. Which is what we are now doing. Hence the title "Where to for Super Rugby?"

NZ Rugby, and the thread of last night NZ rugby show, was along the lines of "Australia is weak in the construct of their existing structures so they should only have two teams". Its regressive thinking. McLennan and Clarke seem to have moved forward to the point where they are acknowledging Super/SANZAR is broken so are planning to start afresh. NZR's offer was just "less of the same", not real reform.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

the current Kiwi super system for all teams, that is, each team only gets to have say 25 protected players, the rest of the players dropped in a pool where any side can pick them up as a "protected player" or go into a draft for the outer squad of any team

I don't believe that has been the case for a number of years however I don't mind the idea in Aus.

 

[Number 7]

It would be a sort of draft system (as you can't really force players) but most would want a play somewhere they are actually wanted

I think it could go both ways with a few Aussie players being picked up by Kiwi sides as well, you guys need props

As long as selection eligibility is tweaked so the Wobs & ABs can select any eligible player in the whole comp, it could work

A draft system from Shute Shield and club colts could add to the attractiveness of those comps.

 

[sendit]

super rugby Aateora is gonna get really crap real quickly if it remains a 5-6 team comp and 1 or 2 of those teams turn into long term whipping boys ala chiefs this year

While we don't want the same number, the NRL and AFL are ok with having a few shit teams because they can play amongst themselves and you get some close games. With a comp that size any problems a team face are going to be compounded immensely

 

[fatprop]

A draft system from Shute Shield and club colts could add to the attractiveness of those comps.

More difficult without $$$, amateurs can do what they want

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

If any new team is added to the comp (esp a PI team) in the year prior players should nominate for a draft and each team should be required to take two or three players. These players would get the opportunity to understand the competition then form the basis of the team in its first year.

 

[sendit]

A draft system from Shute Shield and club colts could add to the attractiveness of those comps.

I'd like to make shute shield a representative side. Only have 1st and 2nd Grade and Colts and geo-lock it and make some criteria around 80% plus need to live in area or have played for a junior club

it would make clubs like uni actually put some effort into juniors, help out and revive subbies as the lower grade shute players head there and would go a long way in general to equaling out the talent

 

[Tex]

NZ and Australia should really be putting down the swords and working productively together. Neither has the clout to go it alone. The idea of players being able to retain All Black/Wallaby eligibility while playing in Aus/NZ is excellent and should be embraced. The issue of player drain is far greater when we're losing eligible players to France and England. Keeping them in the SH comps is a great leap towards keeping them engaged in the Wallabies program.

On drafts, I'm a fan and think that a greater distribution of young talent around the country works well for the players and the franchises. For all the bleating about forcing young players to leave home, I say tosh. Find me a young man who hasn't enjoyed striking out on his own in a new city!

 

[Tex]

Drafts give us and the media another angle to talk about rugby and drum up the hype, which is only a good thing.

 

[barbarian]

That is the narrative but I find it sophistry. Cutting teams just increases the number of Australian players in the NH or in League. What builds better quality requires longer term action. The only way to get their earlier is to start the process earlier:

On field product does receive a sugar hit of increased quality from cutting but it is a one off not a sustained effect. The actual sustained impact is a reduction is $ with the reduction in quality and a "shrink to greatness" feedback loop.

We desperately need to get out of that loop.

I'm not saying we should cut a team, there are more factors to consider than just on-field quality as you point out. But cutting a team IMO would help on-field product. And I really hate the expression 'shrink to greatness', FWIW. It's overused, overdone and frankly a little bit insulting to the valid points that support the view that we'd do better with less teams.

 

[qwerty51]

Let's assume the Force are cut. Which of those players right now would improve the other franchises? Maybe FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner) - that's it?

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

Drafts won't work for rugby union, because Australia doesn't have a monopoly on players or the cash to spend. A player might stick around in Australia because they want to live in their hometown with their loved ones. Why take part in a draft and risk being sent on the other side of the country for $100,000, when you can go to Japan or France for twice that much?

 

[Tex]

That's the sort of defeatism that keeps this sport mire in mediocrity.

Seriously!

"Young players would hate to move to South Yarra/Fitzroy on a $100k salary to play sport. It's much better to live with mum and pull beers at the pub playing footy with mates."

Spare me

 

[BDA]

It boggles the mind they'd walk away from the TT comp solely because they are worried the Force and Rebels will be easybeats.

Also, didn't the Rebels beat the Highlanders in NZ earlier this year? They're clearly not cannon fodder.

 

[Dan54]

Let’s see how sustainable a 5 team kiwi tournament is then..

Who has said NZR is having a 5 team tournament, that is arrogance in the extreme to think to think you know what they are planning. Christ and you jokers moan at NZR!

 

[Derpus]

Who has said NZR is having a 5 team tournament, that is arrogance in the extreme to think to think you know what they are planning. Christ and you jokers moan at NZR!

Yeah - they are clearly going to cobble together some Auckland based Pacifika monstrosity to make it 6.