Where to for Super Rugby?

[Wilson]

Maybe pumped was a little harsh .

OK, thought experiment - If there was a TT comp now, playing each team twice - with the teams as they are - would you agree the top four teams that would make up the Semis would be kiwi teams?

The Brumbies might sneak in.

If so, how would that make for a compelling competition?

Absolutely think the Brumbies would be there (probably in 2nd place based on this year), Reds and Rebels both threatening.

But if it is just 1 Australian team making the finals in a given year is that the end of the world? In 10 years of super 12 only 2 years had more than 1 Australian finalists - 2001 and 2002.

 

[Rebels3]

Combining the two comps

- Crusaders clearly the best
- Blues and Hurricanes fighting it out for runner up
- Brumbies slightly better than Highlanders and Chiefs
- Reds and Rebels slightly worse than Chiefs and Highlanders
- Tahs and Force clearly worse than the rest but the Tahs are the most inexperienced team and the Force didn't have the luxury of building a squad for this level

Most the Aus teams have the upside of youth when compared to the NZ squads so should develop to bridge the gap

The real thing is in 12 months time what would this list look like

Currently i rate them
1) Crusaders
2) Hurricanes/Blues
3) Hurricanes/Blues
4) Brumbies
5) Highlanders/Chiefs (Highlanders were poo earlier this year, Chiefs were good now its a reverse, so i rate them similar)
6) Reds/Rebels
7) Reds/Rebels
8) Waratahs
9) Force


In 12 months
1) Crusaders
2) Blues
3) Hurricanes/Brumbies/Reds
4) Hurricanes/Brumbies/Reds
5) Hurricanes/Brumbies/Reds
6) Chiefs/Highlanders/Rebels
7) Chiefs/Highlanders/Rebels
8) Chiefs/Highlanders/Rebels
9) Waratahs (probably need another 12 months before the jump up the table)
10) Force (could recruit aggressively and be anywhere)

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Given there's unlkely to be any no-quarantine trans-Tasman travel until at least part way through next year it's probably best if RA & NZR run whatever domestic comp(s) they think best & leave a place for some Champions League-type fixtures between those & the International season.

 

[Wilson]

Given there's unlkely to be any no-quarantine trans-Tasman travel until at least part way through next year it's probably best if RA & NZR run whatever domestic comp(s) they think best & leave a place for some Champions League-type fixtures between those & the International season.

Will arguably maximize revenue for the 2022 comp that way too - one off deal now while everyone is still weathering the storm/bouncing back and than lock in the long term deal for a full comp when the broadcasters have recovered a bit and there is more potential for a competitive bid.

Just have to get through 2021 first.

 

[Mick The Munch]

Since 2002 - there have only been 5 AU teams in the final - Perhaps one of the reasons the viewing figures have dropping so much.

None is since 2014.

How can supporters get excited in a comp where their teams *generally don't make the finals?

How good is it going to be to have all Aussie Finals weeks?

Absolutely think the Brumbies would be there (probably in 2nd place based on this year), Reds and Rebels both threatening.

But if it is just 1 Australian team making the finals in a given year is that the end of the world? In 10 years of super 12 only 2 years had more than 1 Australian finalists - 2001 and 2002.

 

[Wilson]

Since 2002 - there have only been 5 AU teams in the final - Perhaps one of the reasons the viewing figures have dropping so much.

None is since 2014.

How can supporters get excited in a comp where their teams *generally don't make the finals?

How good is it going to be to have all Aussie Finals weeks?

That plays out very differently in 4 team finals series though, only ever need 1 win for an Australian side to make the finals, and without ever having to travel to South Africa that's not that hard to get.

Another way of looking at it - there have only been 5 QLD grand finalists in the NRL since 2002, it doesn't seem to have hurt the popularity of the NRL in QLD.

 

[Slim 293]

Since 2002 - there have only been 5 AU teams in the final

Just to be pedantic.......... it's actually 6 times.

 

[Slim 293]

Also, from an earlier post......... the times since 2001 an Australian team has reached the semi finals and beyond:

2001 - Brumbies Champions (Reds semi finalists)
2002 - Brumbies runners up (Waratahs semi finalists)
2003 - Brumbies semi finalists
2004 - Brumbies Champions
2005 - Waratahs runners up

2006 - Waratahs semi finalists
2008 - Waratahs runners up
2010 - Waratahs semi finalists

2011 - Reds Champions (Waratahs qualifying finalists)
2013 - Brumbies runners up (Reds qualifying finalists)
2014 - Waratahs Champions (Brumbies semi finalists)
2015 - Waratahs and Brumbies semi finalists


2018 - Waratahs semi finalists
2019 - Brumbies semi finalists

 

[dru]

Absolutely think the Brumbies would be there (probably in 2nd place based on this year), Reds and Rebels both threatening.

But if it is just 1 Australian team making the finals in a given year is that the end of the world? In 10 years of super 12 only 2 years had more than 1 Australian finalists - 2001 and 2002.

Not the end of the world no and not the sole issue creating problems. BUT the result was a trend of terminal decline in viewing numbers, commercial failure and a requirement to reduce teams. Which in turn created a negative feedback loop of decline.

Completely unsustainable.

 

[Micheal]

To stretch out the idea of a Champions League type scenario at the end of the season - to maximise revenue in these peculiar times - we could do the following:

1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4, 5 vs 5 etc.

So we'd get:

• Brumbies vs Crusaders
• Reds vs Blues
• Rebels vs Hurricanes
• Waratahs vs Highlanders
• Force vs Chiefs

That'd be a pretty interesting way to see how the two conferences match up against one another, and would be almost like mini-Bledisloes for each of the teams involved.

 

[Derpus]

To stretch out the idea of a Champions League type scenario at the end of the season - to maximise revenue in these peculiar times - we could do the following:

1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4, 5 vs 5 etc.

So we'd get:

• Brumbies vs Crusaders
• Reds vs Blues
• Rebels vs Hurricanes
• Waratahs vs Highlanders
• Force vs Chiefs

That'd be a pretty interesting way to see how the two conferences match up against one another, and would be almost like mini-Bledisloes for each of the teams involved.

I like it.

The other alternative is to have a semi then final played on the following week. I can see conflict as to the venue for fixtures though.

 

[dru]

To stretch out the idea of a Champions League type scenario at the end of the season - to maximise revenue in these peculiar times - we could do the following:

1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4, 5 vs 5 etc.

So we'd get:

• Brumbies vs Crusaders
• Reds vs Blues
• Rebels vs Hurricanes
• Waratahs vs Highlanders
• Force vs Chiefs

That'd be a pretty interesting way to see how the two conferences match up against one another, and would be almost like mini-Bledisloes for each of the teams involved.

Just follow the traditional pattern of rewarding the higher placed teams and target the possibility of 1v1 in the final. So 4v1; 2v3; 3v2; 4v1.

 

[Wilson]

Just follow the traditional pattern of rewarding the higher placed teams and target the possibility of 1v1 in the final. So 4v1; 2v3; 3v2; 4v1.

I think the idea is it's a one off, so that all the games are Aus vs. NZ

 

[KOB1987]

I think the idea is it's a one off, so that all the games are Aus vs. NZ

That's what he is getting at I think - Aus1 v NZ4 etc. But there are 5 teams so Aus1 v NZ5, Aus2 v NZ4, Aus3 v NZ3, Aus4 v NZ2, Aus5 v NZ1.

 

[Micheal]

That's what he is getting at I think - Aus1 v NZ4 etc. But there are 5 teams so Aus1 v NZ5, Aus2 v NZ4, Aus3 v NZ3, Aus4 v NZ2, Aus5 v NZ1.

What's the point of that though, if they are to be one offs?

To watch the Crusaders flog the Force and the Brumbies to flog the Chiefs?

Would much rather see even contests across the board, to see if our best can beat their best, and if our worst can beat their worst.

 

[KOB1987]

What's the point of that though, if they are to be one offs?

To watch the Crusaders flog the Force and the Brumbies to flog the Chiefs?

Would much rather see even contests across the board, to see if our best can beat their best, and if our worst can beat their worst.

I tend to agree, I was explaining to Wilson what dru was saying. However, it's not a one-off in this example, it's a knockout league, that's the first round.

 

[dru]

I think the idea is it's a one off, so that all the games are Aus vs. NZ

Yews that works. Top NZ team v Bottom Aus. Top Aus team v bottom kiwi, etc.

 

[dru]

I tend to agree, I was explaining to Wilson what dru was saying. However, it's not a one-off in this example, it's a knockout league, that's the first round.

It's a knock out comp surely. So if everything runs as the ratings, and presuming level pl;yaing field you are likely to end up with the two top teams in the final.

Ofc the higher rated Aus teams may not go through, but that's life.

 

[kiap]

Ofc the higher rated Aus teams may not go through, but that's life.

Straight knockout comps played cross-border are a dumb idea.

All that player contracting and overseas travel expense, then 50% of the competition turns to smoke in 80 minutes.

Waste of time and money.

It's a knock out comp surely. So if everything runs as the ratings, and presuming level pl;yaing field you are likely to end up with the two top teams in the final.

Whack in a few pool games or some such first, before you begin booting out the losers.

 

[dru]

Straight knockout comps played cross-border are a dumb idea.

All that player contracting and overseas travel expense, then 50% of the competition turns to smoke in 80 minutes.

Waste of time and money.


Whack in a few pool games or some such first, before you begin booting out the losers.

Maybe. Personally I'd like a longer domestic comp and a short cross comp club shoot out.