Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

RA must have fixed their leaks as we seem to have no clues as to what will be likely in place for next year and what happening with broadcaster negotiations and possible private equity investment interest and discussions and indeed of any timelines for a decision

In the absence of that will probably allow for another 1000 pages on same and similar scenarios postulated over the last 6 months

You would think based on no marketing and how quickly thrown together, closeness of competition and teams and improvement shown in quality of play you would have to say Super RuGby Au so far been reasonably successful and showing glimpse of what the future could be with some (private equity and grass roots) investment.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

McLennan tells Cully where things are at from an RA POV:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...h-mclennan-tells-nz-the-ball-is-in-your-court

 

[Rugbynutter39]

McLennan tells Cully where things are at from an RA POV:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...h-mclennan-tells-nz-the-ball-is-in-your-court

Love that quote from Hamish ‘we have an opportunity to create a world class competition but I am not going to cut my way to greatness’

We are very fortunate to have Hamish leading us at this time as he was behind one of the most innovative and successful new competitions created recently with the big bash so certainly has the credentials to know how to create a successful competition around a strong franchise model with good footprint.

Finally feel we have found the right person to lead us forward and achieve not only better outcomes for oz rugby but the region with him at the helm.

 

[Dan54]

You can see the talks are getting closer, Hamish is using similar words to NZR in the 'wanting to create a world class comp', I think they will be making sure the financials are in place and it will get sorted. I still think you will find that biggest thing they have to agree on, money is the basis of teams being successful in staying. I said when I first heard Hamish speak on Breakdown I liked what he said, but the proof will be in have they actually got RA out of financial mire they were in at time of AGM.

 

[KOB1987]

You can see the talks are getting closer, Hamish is using similar words to NZR in the 'wanting to create a world class comp', I think they will be making sure the financials are in place and it will get sorted. I still think you will find that biggest thing they have to agree on, money is the basis of teams being successful in staying. I said when I first heard Hamish speak on Breakdown I liked what he said, but the proof will be in have they actually got RA out of financial mire they were in at time of AGM.

The biggest thing they have to agree on for 2021 is that Covid won’t stop the competition part way through.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The quote that was telling for me from Hamish on trans tasman negotiations was ‘there are no resolutions anywhere’ which to me suggests we are likely to be proceeding down the path of our domestic competition. Hopefully though with a champions league concept with nz and japan.

That quote for me suggests there is almost zero chance of trans tasman competition at this point given stated they need to have way forward for broadcast negotiations agreed in weeks. I imagine most oz rugby supporters increasingly ok with this prospect assuming we have twiggy on board and inside the tent.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The biggest thing they have to agree on for 2021 is that Covid won’t stop the competition part way through.

They would have contingency options in place but like I said given Hamish stated no resolutions on trans tasman negotiations been agreed I think it is dead Jim.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I think they have to proceed on the basis that there won't be routine trans-Tasman travel until at least the second quarter of 2021 & that each will need to run a domestic comp.

For there to be any kind of Champions League-style fixtures after the domestic season & before the Test season the comps will need to be of similar structure i.e. SRAo & SRAu or NPC & whatever replaces NRC: you wouldn't want Tasman v Brumbies or Crusaders v Vikings as a CL semi final, nor could you re-assemble or disperse the franchise sides on one side of the ditch to match what happened on the other.

Just to potentially complicate matters, NZR Chairman Brent Impey recently Tele-conferenced the 14 NPC Chairmen & reaffirmed NZR's committed to a 14-team NPC for the foreseeable future. So if RA goes say eight-team domestic, NZR probably needs to seperate the NPC Premiership & Championship divisions so that both finish at around the same time.

I'm not sure NZR would want another SRAo season, even with the addition of the Pasifika team Sir Michael Jones & Eroni Clarke are trying to establish: it's just too brutal (45 players on the "unavailable injured" list as of last Thursday) esp with a possible CL to follow & then an inbound tour, TRC and/ or Bledisloes and possibly EOYT after that.

 

[dru]

The quote that was telling for me from Hamish on trans tasman negotiations was ‘there are no resolutions anywhere’ which to me suggests we are likely to be proceeding down the path of our domestic competition. Hopefully though with a champions league concept with nz and japan.

That quote for me suggests there is almost zero chance of trans tasman competition at this point given stated they need to have way forward for broadcast negotiations agreed in weeks. I imagine most oz rugby supporters increasingly ok with this prospect assuming we have twiggy on board and inside the tent.

I liked this on co-hosting RWC fixtures: “I have been open to it, but it is predicated on genuine cooperation, and the current mood doesn't fill me with a whole lot of hope,” McLennan said.

Let's see where this goes, but so far RA and Hamish have been solid.

 

[Dan54]

They would have contingency options in place but like I said given Hamish stated no resolutions on trans tasman negotiations been agreed I think it is dead Jim.

I think Hamish is still just trying to play hard ball as he should. I can't see either not trying to work it out. Hasn't WR (World Rugby) just had to give RA an extra loan to keep them afloat? I would imagine it will be quite costly to get either comp up and running, but would think paying 5 teams (well 4 with Twiggy paying one) would be a lot more affordable than running 7-8 whatever is required to have seperate domestic comps, same would be for NZR?

 

[dru]

^^^No not hard ball. Just playing with a straight bat. I don't think that is splitting hairs either.

What was always required here, but few thought we would see, is for RA not just to state we are happy solo, but to be willing to proceed domestically without the Kiwis. Nothing short of that was going to be taken seriously.

As things eventuate it isn't hard to see that domestic comps may be required whether or not they are desired in 2021. Might as well build the pathway that is in front of us. There is no need to integrate our pro rugby with New Zealand on terms that do not suit us.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Dan

To have a 8 team competition you would have to assume private equity investment - twiggy has stated prepared to invest if they (RA) sort out the governance whilst other private equity approaches also been reported including for Rebels.

If plan A of trans tasman falls through (really think it is dead and Hamish more communicating ahead why likely to go down domestic competition path by telegraphing could not get any agreement on any resolution with NZRU), I would still think a champions league concept would be what both parties would work to as their plan B as they know this with japan involvement would be attractive to broadcasters and help to generate more needed revenue and playing time for their players as 6-8 team competitions.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^No not hard ball. Just playing with a straight bat. I don't think that is splitting hairs either.

What was always required here, but few thought we would see, is for RA not just to state we are happy solo, but to be willing to proceed domestically without the Kiwis. Nothing short of that was going to be taken seriously.

As things eventuate it isn't hard to see that domestic comps may be required whether or not they are desired in 2021. Might as well build the pathway that is in front of us. There is no need to integrate our pro rugby with New Zealand on terms that do not suit us.

I posted on PlanetRugby that the silence we've had over the fortnight and the article about the possibility of needing to continue with the current structures next year coming out of NZ was an indicator of those talks not going well. It may not have been too far off the mark.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Dan

To have a 8 team competition you would have to assume private equity investment - twiggy has stated prepared to invest if they (RA) sort out the governance whilst other private equity approaches also been reported including for Rebels.

If plan A of trans tasman falls through (really think it is dead and Hamish more communicating ahead why likely to go down domestic competition path by telegraphing could not get any agreement on any resolution with NZRU), I would still think a champions league concept would be what both parties would work to as their plan B as they know this with japan involvement would be attractive to broadcasters and help to generate more needed revenue and playing time for their players as 6-8 team competitions.

What is telling was the bit on how he wants it to be structured. Independent of the Unions designed to attract investment.

 

[Rebels3]

The thing I liked most about it was the independent commission of a competition. I am confident RA and it’s private equity conversations have revolves around a longer domestic season to provide content and greater visibility for sponsors.

 

[kiap]

I'm not sure NZR would want another SRAo season, even with the addition of the Pasifika team Sir Michael Jones & Eroni Clarke are trying to establish: it's just too brutal.

This is a fake problem. Just add in your Pasifika team and some byes and get on with it. It's not tiddlywinks. All will be fine.

 

[Rebels3]

This is a fake problem. Just add in your Pasifika team and some byes and get on with it. It's not tiddlywinks. All will be fine.

Completely agree, I fully believe this comment has simply become trendy to say and doesn’t have much truth to it. For gods sake it’s 8 matches with 2 byes jammed inbetween.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ It's not a "fake problem": 45 players have missed one or more games due to injury, most of those injuries have occurred in play rather than training etc & at least ten have been season- or even year-ending.

 

[Rebels3]

^ It's not a "fake problem": 45 players have missed one or more games due to injury, most of those injuries have occurred in play rather than training etc & at least ten have been season- or even year-ending.

I think you’ll find that’s just the usual attrition rate. It was only last year the chiefs used around 40 players in a season.

 

[KOB1987]

^ It's not a "fake problem": 45 players have missed one or more games due to injury, most of those injuries have occurred in play rather than training etc & at least ten have been season- or even year-ending.

It is. If it’s something they really consider as a problem then they didn’t really think through the congesting Australia’s best players into 2 teams thing.