Where to for Super Rugby?

[Derpus]

I truly believe there will always be some form of professional rugby in Aus, however it looking like it’s current form and expenditure is the thing seriously in doubt.

One thing the pandemic has shown to me, apart from the obvious terrible state that RA are in and the infighting is, is that we are the indisputable 3rd code in the country. There has barely been a whimper out of basketball in the media despite teams have lost some of their biggest stars, soccer is the most popular sport to play but it’s a mile behind in public interest you wouldn’t know that there is a pay dispute going on where some teams are refusing to pay their players anything and the season is similarly struggling for resumption. My point been there is so many big issues and despite all the negative press we have, we are still relevant enough for it to be covered, which shows there is still a clear demand for it.

I think Rugby gets a fairly disproportionate amount of media attention in this country. Id be very surprised if Rugby turned out to be a more popular sport (howeveer measured) than Soccer, which has the most marketable sporting products in the World.

If you just mean A-league, then maybe.

 

[swingpass]

from dan at press conference today, Rebels allowed to start training as per tomorrow, restrictions apply.

 

[formerflanker]

I think Rugby gets a fairly disproportionate amount of media attention in this country. Id be very surprised if Rugby turned out to be a more popular sport (howeveer measured) than Soccer, which has the most marketable sporting products in the World.

If you just mean A-league, then maybe.

I have a feeling that media attention is driven by the American Express theory of popularity - we many not have as many cardholders but they spend more than the opposition cardholders.
i.e. rugby gets media attention because the readers spend more on the advertisers' products.

 

[barbarian]

i.e. rugby gets media attention because the readers spend more on the advertisers' products.

The private school dominance of our game has it's pros and cons, but an underrated feature is the love of the game that is fostered in blokes in the 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7th, 8th XV. They don't come within a bulls roar of a Wallaby jersey, but they rise to positions of power and influence which can benefit the game in other ways. Corporate sponsor dollars is a by-product of this IMO.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Super Rugby Aotearoa from 13 June: every Saturday at 15:05 & Sunday at 13:05 AEST for ten weeks.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12331110

 

[Quick Hands]

Reg, a really good article, and whilst I agree with a lot of your points, and there are many I would like to see happen, I think it paints too much of a bearish scenario with regards to professionalism.

Having read through and thought over all the different models and proposals myself, I believe we will see a top down approach emerge over the next few years as we emerge from this pandemic. The first point, as noted above, is that the main revenue driver for Aussie rugby is the Wallabies, this then filters down to the Super Rugby teams via broadcast revenue, and then to the semi pro and amateur levels below this. Secondly, you mention that 95% of our 120 professional players will end up signing offshore. That equates to 114 of them. This won't happen, there just won't be the demand for that many additional of our players from overseas competitions. Add to this that these competitions will be taking a financial hit as well out of all this and they won't have the same amount of money to throw around. In short I think there will be a downward correction of player salaries globally.

Here is what I think will happen:
2020 - we will just have to make do with what we can and both us and NZ will want to head towards a Bledisloe series later in the year to generate some revenue. In the meantime we will have a short domestic competition involving the 4 existing Super franchises and the Force. Players who have returned and are uncontracted such as Jono Lance and TPN will temporarily sign with the Force to bolster their side. Depending on the timing there might be a Championship match between our winner and NZ's.
2021 - there will still be huge restrictions on overseas travel. I think the shortened comp of 2020 will be repeated for the whole season and with the inclusion of the Drua. There will be some reshuffling of the player rosters as players start to relocate to their preferred locations on lower salaries and look for supplementary income. The 6 teams will play 3 competition rounds = 15 weeks, plus a 4 team finals series. Again there could be a TT match, and there will be an international season with NZ, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga..
2022 onwards - movements will be eased and there will be some defection of the top players to overseas competitions, and a relaxation of the eligibility clauses (I hate calling it the Giteau clause, I reckon it was actually the Kepu clause). The Waratahs and Reds will split into two NSW and two Qld sides, forming an 8 team domestic competition. Over time Samoa and Tonga could be involved and some of the Asian nations, expanding the competition even further.

Broadcast revenue is the big variable in all of this. It's imperative that we use 2020 and 2021 to showcase our home grown talent and get a media deal locked in. The more we can earn from that the more top level players we will be able to retain. I also think that 3rd party payments/sponsorship might become the norm for mid level players. E.g. Coca-Cola Amatil may employ a player as a salesman, offering a career post rugby and have the logo emblazoned on the sleeve, or shorts etc.

I think that this will be closer to what will happen.

I completely agree that there's no realistic or logical way that overseas based competitions either could or would be able to find spots for 100-120 Australian players. The top 40, or most of them will go, but it's highly doubtful whether the rest could:

(a) get a spot in a professional team when they are at best equal to the local talent. Recent results in Super Rugby hardly suggest that we have a 80 or so journeymen players who could take the European rugby world bu storm

OR

(b) be able to support themselves should that somehow get a spot at the semi-pro level, given the substantially higher cost of living in the UK and Europe. These players wouldn't be able to work to supplement semi-pro income unless they hold a UK or EU passport

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Super Rugby Aotearoa from 13 June: every Saturday at 15:05 & Sunday at 13:05 AEST for ten weeks.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12331110

Guess I rejoin Kayo on 13/06.

 

[dru]

I think that this will be closer to what will happen.

I completely agree that there's no realistic or logical way that overseas based competitions either could or would be able to find spots for 100-120 Australian players. The top 40, or most of them will go, but it's highly doubtful whether the rest could:

(a) get a spot in a professional team when they are at best equal to the local talent. Recent results in Super Rugby hardly suggest that we have a 80 or so journeymen players who could take the European rugby world bu storm

OR

(b) be able to support themselves should that somehow get a spot at the semi-pro level, given the substantially higher cost of living in the UK and Europe. These players wouldn't be able to work to supplement semi-pro income unless they hold a UK or EU passport

Have to say that I'm quite comfortable if that is the result. For the life of me though I don't see how the PI teams can generate local income sufficient to support themselves - and we will not be in a position to be benevolent.

Keep an eye on NZ though. They will have more than a bit part in how this saga pans out.

 

[Derpus]

I think that this will be closer to what will happen.

I completely agree that there's no realistic or logical way that overseas based competitions either could or would be able to find spots for 100-120 Australian players. The top 40, or most of them will go, but it's highly doubtful whether the rest could:

(a) get a spot in a professional team when they are at best equal to the local talent. Recent results in Super Rugby hardly suggest that we have a 80 or so journeymen players who could take the European rugby world bu storm

OR

(b) be able to support themselves should that somehow get a spot at the semi-pro level, given the substantially higher cost of living in the UK and Europe. These players wouldn't be able to work to supplement semi-pro income unless they hold a UK or EU passport

UK maybe, but cost of living on the mainland is less. The issue will be getting a comparable salary.

 

[redstragic]

The private school dominance of our game has it's pros and cons, but an underrated feature is the love of the game that is fostered in blokes in the 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7th, 8th XV. They don't come within a bulls roar of a Wallaby jersey, but they rise to positions of power and influence which can benefit the game in other ways. Corporate sponsor dollars is a by-product of this IMO.

You are talking about the future aren't you? and I agree, playing the game when young does create a life long love for it.

Just from my point of view in the cheap seats, I have been noticing fewer sponsors hoardings and the lights on in fewer corporate boxes at Suncorp over the last 5 years or so. I have not been to the other Supe stadiums on game day though so have no idea if this has been a nation wide thing.

 

[Tomikin]

Oh fuck yeah. Buyers out the door in our market.

"I wanna buy an Aussie rugby franchise!"
"Fuck you I'll buy THREE!"

There's no social disgusting going on there

 

[Quick Hands]

UK maybe, but cost of living on the mainland is less. The issue will be getting a comparable salary.

In France they'd pay
19.2% more for restaurants/takeaway
27.4% more for groceries
29.1% more for transport *
25.5% more for clothing

But 21.4% less for housing and 20.3% less for childcare.

Housing would be a big saving, but I'm not so sure many would need childcare.

*(probably more than this as cars and petrol are substantially more but transport around Paris is substantially less - most clubs in France are in small country towns where cars would be needed and public transport not available)

https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/cost-of-living/australia/france

 

[Dctarget]

COVID-19 might be a positive for Aus rugby for a while. If we manage to get 10 rounds of rugby between Aus teams, where the has to be an Aus winner with high class players it could generate some interest.

 

[RugbyReg]

Secondly, you mention that 95% of our 120 professional players will end up signing offshore. That equates to 114 of them. This won't happen, there just won't be the demand for that many additional of our players from overseas competitions. Add to this that these competitions will be taking a financial hit as well out of all this and they won't have the same amount of money to throw around. In short I think there will be a downward correction of player salaries globally.

.

Between the UK, a couple of divisions of France, USA, Japan and NRL I reckon 120 odd could go pretty quick

 

[eastman]

Have to say that I'm quite comfortable if that is the result. For the life of me though I don't see how the PI teams can generate local income sufficient to support themselves - and we will not be in a position to be benevolent.

Agreed and I also think some of the aspirations in rugby league to introduce Pacific teams to competitions will be put on hold for the interim. Unless the respective head unions or World Rugby can agree to completely underwrite their participation, the focus has to be on domestic teams. Pacific Islanders will get behind teams if they feel they are represented and are engaged - a Western Sydney team should be the vehicle to do that.

 

[PhilClinton]

You are talking about the future aren't you? and I agree, playing the game when young does create a life long love for it.

Just from my point of view in the cheap seats, I have been noticing fewer sponsors hoardings and the lights on in fewer corporate boxes at Suncorp over the last 5 years or so. I have not been to the other Supe stadiums on game day though so have no idea if this has been a nation wide thing.

I think that is more a commentary on the changing nature of Australia businesses and the appeal of heading to the footy each and every week. My company held a corporate box at Suncorp for about 10 years. We used to be able to rustle up a good handful of clients and employees for any game in any code.

Since television production values have increased and everything from under 6 marbles to Indonesian pig farming is on Fox Sports, we found it harder to get people to commit to games unless it was State of Origin, local derby’s, International’s or finals. We decided to give up the permanent reservation and now just book a box for the main games each year, saved us a ton of cash and we have people banging on the door to come along when we do host something which makes it a bit more special.

My point being the years of booking out a corporate box and being the big wig seen to be past us, mostly because sports broadcasting has made being at the game less special, in my opinion.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I think that is more a commentary on the changing nature of Australia businesses and the appeal of heading to the footy each and every week. My company held a corporate box at Suncorp for about 10 years. We used to be able to rustle up a good handful of clients and employees for any game in any code.

Since television production values have increased and everything from under 6 marbles to Indonesian pig farming is on Fox Sports, we found it harder to get people to commit to games unless it was State of Origin, local derby’s, International’s or finals. We decided to give up the permanent reservation and now just book a box for the main games each year, saved us a ton of cash and we have people banging on the door to come along when we do host something which makes it a bit more special.

My point being the years of booking out a corporate box and being the big wig seen to be past us, mostly because sports broadcasting has made being at the game less special, in my opinion.

Corporate entertainment budgets have been slashed and success of teams have a huge role to play.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think that this will be closer to what will happen.

I completely agree that there's no realistic or logical way that overseas based competitions either could or would be able to find spots for 100-120 Australian players. The top 40, or most of them will go, but it's highly doubtful whether the rest could:

(a) get a spot in a professional team when they are at best equal to the local talent. Recent results in Super Rugby hardly suggest that we have a 80 or so journeymen players who could take the European rugby world bu storm

OR

(b) be able to support themselves should that somehow get a spot at the semi-pro level, given the substantially higher cost of living in the UK and Europe. These players wouldn't be able to work to supplement semi-pro income unless they hold a UK or EU passport

I agree kob1987’s option above or other option of two (or possibly 3) oz pro sides joining a trans Tasman comp more likely and realistic scenario than what reg painted of purely amateur model in oz. Yes this means more a semi pro competition more likely for kob1987 option with less big salaries but there is not a market for 114 overseas players and yes I see teams like Drua also eventually joining as for same reason as semi pro side will have a lot of good performers but will lose the top ones to overseas.

Ambition wise I would like to see us work towards kob1987 model but this supplemented with champions league style matches against nz sides. Easier option to probably implement is going to two team or possibly three teams) eventually in trans Tasman comp, but prefer former model as better base to build a better foundation for oz rugby as natioNal game with assumption could get a broadcast deal for this (yes not with big dollars which is why see more semi pro aka mlr model as more realistic option)

 

[PhilClinton]

Corporate entertainment budgets have been slashed and success of teams have a huge role to play.

Totally agree, but I also think accessibility to a large range of sports and affordability of good quality HD televisions have made it less appealing to the casual sports fan to head to a game, which in turn made it harder for us to find someone to come along to a game they weren't planning on going to anyway.

Why go the Reds v Sharks when you can head home and watch the game in HD, watch a recording of the 5.30 Kiwi game, the 2 NBA games you recorded during the day and choose between two NRL games.

I'm speaking from the view of a casual fan of course and this is getting off topic so I'll move on.

 

[Boof1050]

Totally agree, but I also think accessibility to a large range of sports and affordability of good quality HD televisions have made it less appealing to the casual sports fan to head to a game, which in turn made it harder for us to find someone to come along to a game they weren't planning on going to anyway.

Why go the Reds v Sharks when you can head home and watch the game in HD, watch a recording of the 5.30 Kiwi game, the 2 NBA games you recorded during the day and choose between two NRL games.

I'm speaking from the view of a casual fan of course and this is getting off topic so I'll move on.

Exactly and all for the price of 35/month if you have Kayo! For 2 seats it at the game it probably costs more and all you get is shitty entertainment. i must say one thing the GRR has tried to do is amp up the gameday experience. Certainly makes it easier to get my family along now with me their entertained and i still get my beers in. Win win situation.