Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

With financial pressures on Foxtel this is why seen more suggestions for innovations for braodcasters including having marquee players to address cross border competitive team issues.

If Foxtel not pushing for major changes to super rugby and listening to what fans want then they deserve to go bust along with SANZAAR and its home unions. The opportunity is there but only if structured and packaged in the right way.

 

[Joe King]

I've been thinking something like this may be inevitable, and could be a reasonable compromise for maintaining elite level rugby in each country, while also adding greater focus on domestic competitions built on tribalism and connection to the grass roots. But I think the Jaguares are more likely to stay involved at least in the short to medium term (if the new South American professional competition takes off this could change).

Could just have two teams in Super Rugby: Aussie Green and Aussie Gold. Then use the brand names of the current Super Rugby teams to run a domestic comp underneath it. But maybe not.

 

[half]

It’s taken a long time for the penny to drop to the floor. But today even the most loyal hard core rusted on’s understand Super Rugby is dead in the water.

What to me has been obvious since 1999, in having a US media company dictate who can play and how to run a competition, hiding away on a subscription network, with no national domestic footprint was never ever going to work.

What is lacking in all the debates is the why and how did this happen. Seems to me people faced now with a highly uncertain future are saying Houston we have a problem.

We need a soul searching and deep sporting analysis to determine the main issues we face. Determine a logical path forward.

My thoughts are reasonably well know call in private investors while there is still time to take over, but many see this as a bridge to far.

To support my call for deep soul searching review, many would know I read wildly and tis interesting to read comments on this forum about the need to engage with Asia. The WC in Japan, Sunwolves etc. Just maybe someone beat us to the Australian and State Governments in pushing the sporting case to engage with Asia.

Have a look at this, and wonder aloud why rugby as a whole and rugby media have not even discussed this. More in the link but this is a taste, why don’t we even know or talk about it.

https://www.ffa.com.au/news/ffa-confirmed-partner-governments-australia-now-2019-campaign
Football Federation Australia (FFA) has been confirmed as a partner for the Australian Government’s Australia now 2019campaign, which will focus on the ASEAN region.
An Australian Government initiative, the Australia now campaign is a celebration of Australia delivered annually in a country or region of significance to Australia.
FFA’s involvement in the Australia now ASEAN 2019 campaign will focus on three areas, supported by the Australian Government.

 

[hoggy]

" What to me has been obvious since 1999, in having a US media company dictate who can play and how to run a competition, hiding away on a subscription network, with no national domestic footprint was never ever going to work." half said.

Exactly it has been the sheer doggedness to not accept the ramifications of this strategy and to never address the Elephant in the room.

To ever think that Fox would not manipulate the situation to ensure that no exit plan ever existed.

Even now Castles comments post 2021 are more of the same, "we are working with our broadcasters" pretty much translates to we are working with our employers who are moving some of there operations offshore.

 

[Dan54]

" What to me has been obvious since 1999, in having a US media company dictate who can play and how to run a competition, hiding away on a subscription network, with no national domestic footprint was never ever going to work." half said.

Exactly it has been the sheer doggedness to not accept the ramifications of this strategy and to never address the Elephant in the room.

To ever think that Fox would not manipulate the situation to ensure that no exit plan ever existed.

Even now Castles comments post 2021 are more of the same, "we are working with our broadcasters" pretty much translates to we are working with our employers who are moving some of there operations offshore.

Let's be honest, the same US media company dictate how all major sports in Aus run their comp!! They tell NRL exactly how their comp will be run too!! Not keen on it, but buggered if I know how any sport can say no and hope to survive!

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

With financial pressures on Foxtel this is why seen more suggestions for innovations for braodcasters including having marquee players to address cross border competitive team issues.

If Foxtel not pushing for major changes to super rugby and listening to what fans want then they deserve to go bust along with SANZAAR and its home unions. The opportunity is there but only if structured and packaged in the right way.

At a real basic level the competition needs to take control of itself. Small things like accurate injury reports and updates, referee pressers (weekly presser where the referees boss faces the media to answer pre-arranged questions on any specific issues during the previous weeks games), fixing the bullshit referee stitch ups in SA (thank you Berry and Seconds), teams named at the same time each week, schedules that don't allow teams to have no home games for weeks on end, consistent match times/slots, teams where the casual observer know where the fuck they are from and a simple competition structure. These things will help media reporting, gambling turnover, fantasy sport engagement, regular fan engagement and hopefully overall turnover.

 

[half]

Let's be honest, the same US media company dictate how all major sports in Aus run their comp!! They tell NRL exactly how their comp will be run too!! Not keen on it, but buggered if I know how any sport can say no and hope to survive!

Dan

Not starting to start a fight, but your statement is an example of why we have issues. There is truth to a degree in what you say. But by any dispassionate unbias analysis of what you say and how you framed your reply IMO seems to want justify how ARU / RA over the recent years. You imply that ARU / RA are not different to the other codes in their dealing with Fox.

While Fox tell the NRL, AFL & A-League, all of these competitions have FTA deals, the NRL went out of there way to separate from Fox, and the AFL are much more in control than most.

The A-League is starting a second division and in discussion with SBS about broadcasting their FFA cup... League via 9 is running a quick as successful Oceania test series.

Finally the other codes set up their own national domestic competitions .

While Fox do have a lot of say in how things are done, it should be at least said that the three codes were all offered more money to stay on Fox alone. The A-League in its 40 million dollar deal when they were on SBS were offered 65 million to stay on Fox only. Similarly league as well I just don't know the figures.

They all survive and all do a lot of what Fox say but no where near to what the ARU / RA have. We still don't have a national domestic competition nor a FTA contract which say in the early 2000's would have been easy to get.

 

[Adam84]

The A-League in its 40 million dollar deal when they were on SBS were offered 65 million to stay on Fox only. Similarly league as well I just don't know the figures..

What source do you have for this, that FFA sacrificed $25million/annum to get 1 A-League game a week on FTA

 

[kiap]

Let's be honest, the same US media company dictate how all major sports in Aus run their comp!! They tell NRL exactly how their comp will be run too!! Not keen on it, but buggered if I know how any sport can say no and hope to survive!

You ever heard of David Smith?

 

[half]

What source do you have for this, that FFA sacrificed $25million/annum to get 1 A-League game a week on FTA

​

FFA and Fox Sports to agree $200 million deal : Aleague - Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/comments/5ix6r5/ffa_and_fox_sports_to_agree_200_million_deal/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/.../ffa_and_fox_sports_to_agree_200_million_deal/

Fox Sports paid $32.2 million per year for the last deal, with SBS tipping in the .... When you consider that the A-League rights are now worth 60-65m on their own ... a return to what was available last season with a digital only subscription?​

 

[Joe King]

If the player drain becomes too great and SA don't want to be in Super Rugby anymore, then a very real possibility might be a new league with NZ and Australian teams, but with AB's able to be picked from any of the teams.

With some sort of mechanism to spread the paying talent evenly across all teams like the NRL, I really think something like this has the potential to crack open the potential market in Australia.

NZ would keep their current 5 Super Rugby teams (though may need to give them geographical names), but with the spread of talent from NZ into the Australian teams as well, there could be quite a few more teams based in Australia.

Yes, there is a downside for NZ with a change to the current structure, but if it brought in more revenue to keep their top players within NZ and Australia, then they might be persuaded. In any case, the NZRU won't be able to keep its top players under the current Super Rugby structures forever. Something needs to change. Both countries would need to see each other as part of their own big domestic tournament.

If interest in the Australian market grows, then it also drives interest in a 3 game Bledisloe Cup series. We've seen the potential of the Bledisloe Cup in the past. It would be like NRL's SoO series.

 

[Rebels3]

The a league isn't the best example. For starters the money is subdivided into 10 professional teams + the socceroos and the professional W-League team (which rugby doesn’t have this expense) it also includes the cost of running the FFA cup.

Rugby is subdivided into 4 professional teams + the wallabies and Fox pays for the costs of the NRC on top of this, which the FFA doesn’t get as the FFA Cup tournament is included in the deal.

Just going on domestic per team, rugby actually wins on the deal, not that it’s anything to write home about.

https://www.socceroos.com.au/news/football-federation-australia-announces-new-broadcast-deal
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015...als-massive-rise-in-tv-broadcast-deal/7036348

FFA (2017-2020) = $346m
RA (2016-2020) = $285m + NRC cost covered

 

[Adam84]

​

FFA and Fox Sports to agree $200 million deal : Aleague - Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/comments/5ix6r5/ffa_and_fox_sports_to_agree_200_million_deal/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/./ffa_and_fox_sports_to_agree_200_million_deal/

Fox Sports paid $32.2 million per year for the last deal, with SBS tipping in the .. When you consider that the A-League rights are now worth 60-65m on their own . a return to what was available last season with a digital only subscription?​

That link doesn’t work for me?

 

[half]

That link doesn’t work for me?

try

https://www.google.com/search?q=ffa offered 65 million by fox&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU802AU802&oq=ffa offered 65 million by fox&aqs=chrome..69i57.10446j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Scroll down a bit and you will find what I posted its near the end of the page and you can see link on this page

Its quite difficult to get 2011 & 2012 media articles but from the above link you can read the start of the article I also can't open the link. Almost every search I do gets me to the latest deal or the details of the 200 million dollar deal not the argie bargie between Lowy and Fox.

At the time and this is from memory FFA had a 17 million dollar deal. Fox wanted all the A-League and all the Socceroo's as had been the case from when the A-League started.

Frank Lowy said that the National Domestic Competition was more important than the Socceroos and that getting both the Socceroos and A-League was the most important thing to do to grow the A-League. SBS was given a FTA match on Friday night then Foxs best viewing night and the Socceroo's. Fox halved their bid to 32 million .

The belief at the time by Lowy was the next deal would bring 100 million. What Lowy never saw coming was FFA loosing the Socceroo's broadcast rights to the Asian Football Confederation so in a weird kinda way he made the right call many think.

But regardless rugby never had the balls to take less money and develop its own competition.

 

[Dan54]

You ever heard of David Smith?

Actually no I haven't , but that's just me showing my ignorance

 

[Dan54]

Dan

Not starting to start a fight, but your statement is an example of why we have issues. There is truth to a degree in what you say. But by any dispassionate unbias analysis of what you say and how you framed your reply IMO seems to want justify how ARU / RA over the recent years. You imply that ARU / RA are not different to the other codes in their dealing with Fox.

.

Yep fair enough half, I not defending anyone or saying it right or wrong, I was just pointing out that Fox seems to run most of the major sports. As I said I don't really like it, and it seems from a few I speak to, neither a supporters from the other sports. I surely not saying you wrong, and don't have a strong opinion, as I fully admit to not having enough knowledge to come up with batter solutions. I actually think it good that people are discussing it, even if we are all in semi darkness.

 

[Adam84]

try

https://www.google.com/search?q=ffa offered 65 million by fox&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU802AU802&oq=ffa offered 65 million by fox&aqs=chrome..69i57.10446j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Scroll down a bit and you will find what I posted its near the end of the page and you can see link on this page

Its quite difficult to get 2011 & 2012 media articles but from the above link you can read the start of the article I also can't open the link. Almost every search I do gets me to the latest deal or the details of the 200 million dollar deal not the argie bargie between Lowy and Fox.

At the time and this is from memory FFA had a 17 million dollar deal. Fox wanted all the A-League and all the Socceroo's as had been the case from when the A-League started.

Frank Lowy said that the National Domestic Competition was more important than the Socceroos and that getting both the Socceroos and A-League was the most important thing to do to grow the A-League. SBS was given a FTA match on Friday night then Foxs best viewing night and the Socceroo's. Fox halved their bid to 32 million .

The belief at the time by Lowy was the next deal would bring 100 million. What Lowy never saw coming was FFA loosing the Socceroo's broadcast rights to the Asian Football Confederation so in a weird kinda way he made the right call many think.

But regardless rugby never had the balls to take less money and develop its own competition.

Sorry but I still don’t anything which supports the comments that FFA sacrificed $25million/annum to get A-League on FTA

 

[kiap]

Actually no I haven't , but that's just me showing my ignorance

You probably have, but just forgot about him. Most people have forgotten. Dave Smith wasn't a shining light but he was an underappreciated hero for mungoball.

He was the NRL chief 4 years ago. A Welshman outsider who took on Uncle Rupe. Took his toys away by making a rights deal with Nine NEC for four games a week which meant News Corporation had nowhere to go - they had to fall in line and keep bidding big for their NRL fix or be screwed in the northern half of the country. Old Rupert was fcken pissed, to put it mildly.

Now, you don't play the Murdochs like that and expect to stay. But it was a shit job anyway. He walked and left it to likes of Greenberg to collect the rest of the billions from Fox. Smith was extensively slammed by the media, of course – some of whom tried to claim the News empire would try to undercut the NRL at every opportunity. Didn't happen. News needed NRL more than the other way round. Rupert had successfully parasited rugby league for two decades after the SL war, but no longer.

 

[Dan54]

Cheers Kiap, as soon as you sy Mungoball I know I am out of picture, I do recall name now you have explained it but I really read nothing at all about the game, so that's my excuse.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Another twist on my suggestion of going to 12 teams and 22 rounds. We could still encourage SA to send another team north reducing numbers to 13 but play a double round robin for 24 rounds. Could still meet our July test window obligations by moving games to mid week ala SoO. That would provide each team with 12 home matches plus another 8 in friendly time zones.