Where to for Super Rugby?

[Quick Hands]

What benefit does Sanzaar get from a Sunday afternoon game? If it was a good time for a match then it would be on every week

It's not that they get a benefit, they just don't care.

As an aside, neither super rugby game in Australia on the weekend announced crowd numbers.

This usually means that the figures are below the embarrasing.

Probably below 5,000 in Canberra and below 10,000 in Melborne.

 

[Slim 293]

Nah, the Brumbies crowd was reported to be around 7700, which is what you'd expect these days.........

Looking at the crowd shots in Melbourne, probably not much bigger than that (definitely below 10,000).

 

[hoggy]

That Melbourne crowd was woeful 6-700 at most, this was with a competitive outfit stacked with Wallabies, fighting for a finals position in a local derby.

I was a foundation member and remember the first couple of seasons, it was all about building, essentially the opposite has happened.

The problem they have is not the available audience or support, it is that Melbourne is simply not interested in Super rugby.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Just Super Rugby?

And I suppose that's the question for everyone here too.

 

[wamberal]

Just Super Rugby?

And I suppose that's the question for everyone here too.

Or just rugby (other than internationals against the Darkness, the Oirish, or the British and Oirish Lions)?

 

[Rebels3]

There is plenty of support here in Melb, it’s just that rugby as a code is tarnished because a) they have stuffed up themselves and b) us fans know how to whinge and jump off a bandwagon like not many other sports can, plenty of ‘fans’ around the country are equally culpable for the tarnished rugby brand. Crowds at all the teams have dropped below 10k at some stage or just about, so it’s an issue competition wide. Rebels as a club are doing an amazing just now, at community level and supporter level, especially with the limited resources available that all super clubs have.

I’d love to have a month of two of positivity and support the sport like the AFL/NRL fans do rain, hail or shine, but there are two many with their own invested interests to make it happen.

Prime example of the negativity was the Brumbies game last week, they get a brilliant win against a kiwi side, yet it wasn’t good enough.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

There is plenty of support here in Melb, it’s just that rugby as a code is tarnished because a) they have stuffed up themselves and b) us fans know how to whinge and jump off a bandwagon like not many other sports can, plenty of ‘fans’ around the country are equally culpable for the tarnished rugby brand. Crowds at all the teams have dropped below 10k at some stage or just about, so it’s an issue competition wide. Rebels as a club are doing an amazing just now, at community level and supporter level, especially with the limited resources available that all super clubs have.

I’d love to have a month of two of positivity and support the sport like the AFL/NRL fans do rain, hail or shine, but there are two many with their own invested interests to make it happen.

Prime example of the negativity was the Brumbies game last week, they get a brilliant win against a kiwi side, yet it wasn’t good enough.

Rebels3. Agree, unfortunately I don't think anything will change until Australia beats NZ in the Bledisloe Cup and win the RWC.

 

[Forceright]

That Melbourne crowd was woeful 6-700 at most, this was with a competitive outfit stacked with Wallabies, fighting for a finals position in a local derby.

I was a foundation member and remember the first couple of seasons, it was all about building, essentially the opposite has happened.

The problem they have is not the available audience or support, it is that Melbourne is simply not interested in Super rugby.

And they had to axe the Force to find that out? Millions $ later..............

 

[Rugbynutter39]

One would think if rugby Australia don’t have something else to offer professional rugby then a 14 team round robin super rugby competition for the next broadcast deal then Castle and Clyne would have to be shown the exit door. That might be the final straw for me and leave me to go back to getting involved with afl again.

 

[Quick Hands]

That Melbourne crowd was woeful 6-700 at most, this was with a competitive outfit stacked with Wallabies, fighting for a finals position in a local derby.

I was a foundation member and remember the first couple of seasons, it was all about building, essentially the opposite has happened.

The problem they have is not the available audience or support, it is that Melbourne is simply not interested in Super rugby.

I think that there's only a small and ever diminishing group of people in Australia who are interested in super rugby. What's happening in Melbourne is the same as that which is happening in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra.

 

[half]

Not sure what thread to post this, TV ratings, Broadcast or the Super rugby. Choose this one mods move if you want.

Anywho the smh is reporting close to a 500 million dollar loss by Fox and Fox has indicated sporting rights deals will belowered and smh is guessing rugby and soccer are the first in line.

Media industry sources believe rights to Super Rugby and Wallabies tests, which expire in 2020, and soccer's A-League competition, could be among the sports affected by Foxtel's move to rein in spending. A Rugby Australia spokesman said: "We are in the very early stages of constructive discussions with Foxtel."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...e-sports-after-417m-loss-20190513-p51msx.html

 

[Rebelsfan]

Not sure what thread to post this, TV ratings, Broadcast or the Super rugby. Choose this one mods move if you want.

Anywho the smh is reporting close to a 500 million dollar loss by Fox and Fox has indicated sporting rights deals will belowered and smh is guessing rugby and soccer are the first in line.

well yes, broadcast deals are ratings driven. And again, we are back on the merry go round of why, why, why don't fans like super rugby? Or is it Australian Super Rugby? Because I actually enjoy watching the NZ derby every Fri and Sat night at 5.30 local time. - even if NZ fans aren't filling their stadiums, they play an exciting game with great skills on show. What do I see when I watch an Australian game / derby? Well it's often inconsistent, the skill level is up and down with moments of brilliance, but no joy there in their faces, and then there's the inconsistency of when the game will be played, maybe one on Fri or Sat, maybe none - the schedule does not suit Australian audiences, so which audience does it suit? Sure, the Melbourne market is saturated with sports, but why do I (and I am not alone) find time to watch one or two AFL games on a weekend, when I don't give a crap about AFL, but, my son does and he played Rugby? Weird, eh?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Will rugby Australia listen to what fans want u

well yes, broadcast deals are ratings driven. And again, we are back on the merry go round of why, why, why don't fans like super rugby? Or is it Australian Super Rugby? Because I actually enjoy watching the NZ derby every Fri and Sat night at 5.30 local time. - even if NZ fans aren't filling their stadiums, they play an exciting game with great skills on show. What do I see when I watch an Australian game / derby? Well it's often inconsistent, the skill level is up and down with moments of brilliance, but no joy there in their faces, and then there's the inconsistency of when the game will be played, maybe one on Fri or Sat, maybe none - the schedule does not suit Australian audiences, so which audience does it suit? Sure, the Melbourne market is saturated with sports, but why do I (and I am not alone) find time to watch one or two AFL games on a weekend, when I don't give a crap about AFL, but, my son does and he played Rugby? Weird, eh?

Not really sports fans like us who might prefer rugby end up watching and following other sports as they are more accessible, provide better fan day game experience for live games which is why with a tainted and flawed super rugby product it has led to a continuing declining fan base. Past and current RA administrations seem from my perspective they have all the time in the world while Rome burns. The lack of radical change means I almost think it is too late now to try and save Australian rugby. Maybe rapid rugby can help as promoting innovation but at this point with only 1 oz team it alone is definitely not the answer.

Now days all we get on this thread is just our frustration that we fail to see any major change coming to save pro rugby as all we have got so far for next super rugby deal is jettisoning Sunwolves who were at least time zone friendly and a round robin competition that offers less overall games and most significantly home games for oz teams. So after all the angst posted on this this thread this is is the best rugby Australia can offer?

I think it is time to mourn the passing of Australian professional rugby if that is the case. Although probably died a couple of years ago and really what many on here are hoping is not the case and are in denial.

 

[hoggy]

The analogy of Rome burns is apt. Like an alcoholic, you can’t start to address the problem until you admit you have one.

And that has been the issue with our administrators. Never have they accepted that Super rugby cannot by design deliver the game here the one thing it needs, growth.

A massive part of that though is vested interest, Rome maybe slowly burning, however those in the so called Rugby tent, have still been doing alright.

 

[Rebels3]

The Foxtel situation is why I have always believed it’ll end up a trans-Tasman competition. Our own broadcasters are receiving a raw deal, yes they don’t put in as much to the coffers as the SA sector does but that’s because they receive product at times that can be commercialized. Infact it almost makes no commercial sense why SA is capable of providing this commercial superiority over Australia. There is the argument they have most viewers, but in the real world numbers aren’t everything, it’s the commercial value of your clientele, of which Australia has significantly more wealth to go around, it’s why beer is cheaper in SA than Aus, not because it more popular there it’s just that the general person has less wealth to purchase the product so it’s made cheaper to buy. With the money that Europe contributes to Super Rugby, there is only finite resources for that as well, so if we break away from Super Rugby and their broadcasters want to put their money towards either the Currie Cup or a Trans-Tasman you can beat your bottom line they will engage the Trans-Tasman over the Currie Cup, it doesn’t clash with their own product, it’s on at a very friendly breakfast time slot which is where they are already most of their Super Rugby engagement. Fans in the UK watch super rugby when they get up then flick it over to their own competitions later.

The NRC as much as it’s a great product for Rugby Australia, provides Foxtel with near on no commercial benefit, the NPC in NZ is offering little commercial benefit to sky, despite the sentimental value and tradition it offers. It might not happen in the short term, but it just makes sense to develop something that engages not only our fans but our partners commercially. They need the ability to control their own investment, the NRL just had a magic weekend, they have ANZAC day clashes, Women in League, indigenous round etc. constant celebrations of their game. Imagine if we could free up a weekend and play the first bledisloe clash on Anzac Day, community round where we have enough fixtures to take a game to the bush, etc.

The good thing about market forces, it generally dictates some common sense after a while. Rugby needs more simplicity in its offerings.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The Foxtel situation is why I have always believed it’ll end up a trans-Tasman competition. Our own broadcasters are receiving a raw deal, yes they don’t put in as much to the coffers as the SA sector does but that’s because they receive product at times that can be commercialized. Infact it almost makes no commercial sense why SA is capable of providing this commercial superiority over Australia. There is the argument they have most viewers, but in the real world numbers aren’t everything, it’s the commercial value of your clientele, of which Australia has significantly more wealth to go around, it’s why beer is cheaper in SA than Aus, not because it more popular there it’s just that the general person has less wealth to purchase the product so it’s made cheaper to buy. With the money that Europe contributes to Super Rugby, there is only finite resources for that as well, so if we break away from Super Rugby and their broadcasters want to put their money towards either the Currie Cup or a Trans-Tasman you can beat your bottom line they will engage the Trans-Tasman over the Currie Cup, it doesn’t clash with their own product, it’s on at a very friendly breakfast time slot which is where they are already most of their Super Rugby engagement. Fans in the UK watch super rugby when they get up then flick it over to their own competitions later.

The NRC as much as it’s a great product for Rugby Australia, provides Foxtel with near on no commercial benefit, the NPC in NZ is offering little commercial benefit to sky, despite the sentimental value and tradition it offers. It might not happen in the short term, but it just makes sense to develop something that engages not only our fans but our partners commercially. They need the ability to control their own investment, the NRL just had a magic weekend, they have ANZAC day clashes, Women in League, indigenous round etc. constant celebrations of their game. Imagine if we could free up a weekend and play the first bledisloe clash on Anzac Day, community round where we have enough fixtures to take a game to the bush, etc.

The good thing about market forces, it generally dictates some common sense after a while. Rugby needs more simplicity in its offerings.

The Foxtel situation suggests a tough choice will need to be made on their behalf in regards to which sports they choose to invest in. Rugby and Soccer will definitely be in the firing line of those decisions. On the ratings front Rugby probably squeaks the A-League thanks to the involvement of SA sides both touring here and away. Without them Super Rugby wins reasonably comfortably in terms of averages. The prove that Aus derbies and games featuring NZ teams are significantly more popular.

Rugby will to face up to the facts that if it cannot provide a compelling case for choosing it over Soccer then Soccer will win out. A TT/AP competition is likely the best bet in terms of being able to achieve a compelling case.

 

[hoggy]

The big issue regards a Trans Tasman competition has been the reluctance of New Zealand to commit to this. With the focus on the All Blacks, Super Rugby is a much better fit for them.

 

[Rebels3]

There will always be money is it provides value. That’s the catch.

Even in this situation, if your product is providing a positive return they will pay what ever it takes, no matter the financial situation they are in to retain it.

I’d love to see ch.10 (cbs) involved in some capacity, and do USA style broadcast (simulcast with Fox) of the home team games to the state they belong to. The remaining games are played on Fox. So if you’re an Aus rugby fan that lives in NSW, you get every Tahs game broadcast live on Ch.10 no matter the time it is on, then if you want to watch the kiwi derbies, Reds, Rebels and Brumbies you have to still subscribe to Fox Sports. Hopefully having exposure on free to air, drives revenue for the club but also interest in the game for people to want to take up Foxtel subscriptions to watch more matches.

 

[hoggy]

There will always be money is it provides value. That’s the catch.

Even in this situation, if your product is providing a positive return they will pay what ever it takes, no matter the financial situation they are in to retain it.

I’d love to see ch.10 (cbs) involved in some capacity, and do USA style broadcast (simulcast with Fox) of the home team games to the state they belong to. The remaining games are played on Fox. So if you’re an Aus rugby fan that lives in NSW, you get every Tahs game broadcast live on Ch.10 no matter the time it is on, then if you want to watch the kiwi derbies, Reds, Rebels and Brumbies you have to still subscribe to Fox Sports. Hopefully having exposure on free to air, drives revenue for the club but also interest in the game for people to want to take up Foxtel subscriptions to watch more matches.

But the catch is providing that value, take NSW for example. You have one team in your biggest market, so by design you cannot factor in local derbies, you cannot provide a game each week in your biggest market. you have no competitor to gauge how the Waratahs are performing as an organization, you have no product to drive new growth in that market (NSW) apart from the Waratahs (who are already pigeon holed to a certain fan base).

My point is until we provide the potential value, then the money won't flow.

 

[Omar Comin']

NZ have shown no appetite for a TT competition. I'd like to be wrong but I think further contraction of Super Rugby (played over 3 continents) is a more likely eventuality. Given the strength of test rugby (and especially if the Nations Championship gets the green light and brings in the promised revenue increase) it'll always be able to support Super Rugby at some base level. Even if Super Rugby continues to bleed fans I'd guess that 2 or 3 teams in each country (plus Jaguares) would be financially sustainable.