Where to for Super Rugby?

[wamberal]

Yep, pretty close to the mark, I reckon. No way a totally domestic comp will do the business for rugby in Australia.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm still firmly of the belief we will end up with a Trans-Tasman competition potentially with 11 team Aus/NZ competition with maybe the 11th team being from the Pacific. It might not be this broadcast deal or even the next, but in 10/15years its what i believe we will have. 20 rounds play every one twice. Its effective, simple to understand and more importantly engages the audience every week.

SAF will go north.
Argentina will focus on the incoming South American pro league, with regular competition against US and Canadian pro teams.
Japan will withdraw back into just the top league

Either that or we see some kind of reformation and merge into the GRR structure looking to grow the market up north. Which considering between 12-15% of our population of some kind of Asian heritage isn't a bad option.

 

[dru]

There will be 22 weeks to fill. So Australia could always pull out and then offer to play the NZ teams in a separate competition.

NZ would be left with SA and Arg. They could play a round robin over 9 weeks with the top two playing in a final = 10 weeks. Then a week off = 11 weeks.

At the same time Australia could play in a revamped NRC comp:
Brumbies
Rebels
Force
2x teams from NSW
2x teams from Qld
Possibly Dura/Sunwolves

Again, a simple round robin with the top two playing in a final. Short, sharp, and everything on the line, every game. Excitement plus!

At the conclusion of these two comps, Australia enters 3 origin-style teams to play against the 5 NZ teams:
NSW Waratahs
Qld Reds
Some sort of combined states team (Brumbies, Rebels, Force)

A round robin, with semis and a final = 9 weeks.

Overall, we’ve managed to fill up 20 weeks.

NZ get what they want: round robins only, to play the SA teams, and have each of their Super Rugby teams playing 8 home games and 8 away games.

Australia get time-zone friendly games only, their own top tier domestic comp, competition against NZ’s best, and a new state of origin feel to the Trans-Tasman Super Rugby. Australia lose a little revenue, but not as much as a complete withdrawal. And Australia get the chance to win some fans to the game, which could increase revenue in the long run.


SA and Arg lose out a bit and may need to rethink what they do after their comp with NZ. SA may even look to Europe, in which case NZ will be sad for a bit.

Super work. Where do I sign up?

 

[Aurelius]

Mr. O’Connor highlighted that the FRU had initial preliminary discussions with Mr. Richard Fale who had also submitted a bid for a Pacific Team to be based in the USA and to play most of its home games in Hawaii and USA. However, the FRU did not support the Bid since it proposed to initially use Pacific Island players who were not eligible to play for the three Island Nations, players who had already played for the All Blacks, Australia, England and other Nations.

The FRU has not engaged nor offered support for the Bid that has been circulating via the social media which is seeking the support of Dwayne Johnson.

Maybe set your sights a little lower, fellas.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ may not be widely known on your side of the ditch but DJ lived in Auckland as a kid, played & loved rugby & remains a fan. I've also heard he's related to Jerome Kaino but that may not be true (both born in American Samoa so it's at least plausible).

 

[RebelYell]

Either that or we see some kind of reformation and merge into the GRR structure looking to grow the market up north. Which considering between 12-15% of our population of some kind of Asian heritage isn't a bad option.

Yep - the link between the Hawaiian team in GRR, and Pichot's presence on the Board of Directors for both US Rugby and FMG makes me think a two-conference GRR, based in different hemispheres and merging GRR + MLR, is a potential end goal.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Perhaps not if they're playing essentially different games RY. Any chance of MLR adopting the GRR rule changes?

 

[Tomikin]

Does anyone actually think that the Force will come back to Super Rugby or anything put forward by Rugby Australia, they have Global Rapid Rugby which is being setup by the guy paying the bills, they will stay right where they are for the foreseeable future, why would they come back ?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep - the link between the Hawaiian team in GRR, and Pichot's presence on the Board of Directors for both US Rugby and FMG makes me think a two-conference GRR, based in different hemispheres and merging GRR + MLR, is a potential end goal.

MLR isn't in any way controlled by USA Rugby and it is highly unlikely that they'll ever entertain merging with GRR. I think what could happen is we move toward a structure that features a mix of at least our Super Rugby teams plus the Force and the potential WS team alongside the other GRR teams.

I don't know whether it would still be GRR or something further down the road in regards to its evolution but there's a market that certainly can be grown into and something we should be seriously entertaining.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Does anyone actually think that the Force will come back to Super Rugby or anything put forward by Rugby Australia, they have Global Rapid Rugby which is being setup by the guy paying the bills, they will stay right where they are for the foreseeable future, why would they come back ?

I don't think they will. I think it will be far more likely that we'll see the other Aus. teams make the jump across to GRR especially if they see greater financial opportunities than a return of the Force to Super Rugby structures.

 

[Slim 293]

Does anyone actually think that the Force will come back to Super Rugby or anything put forward by Rugby Australia, they have Global Rapid Rugby which is being setup by the guy paying the bills, they will stay right where they are for the foreseeable future, why would they come back ?

I assume that at some point they would want to return to a higher level of competition.........

 

[Set piece magic]

The Force will be drawn back by the lure of an actual proper professional competition...One of Raelene's biggest priorities will be burying the rift and warming relations with Twig man, ultimately with the aim of bringing him in as a monetary contributor to Rugby AU. How this plays out will be interesting

 

[kiap]

The Force will be drawn back by the lure of an actual proper professional competition.One of Raelene's biggest priorities will be burying the rift and warming relations with Twig man, ultimately with the aim of bringing him in as a monetary contributor to Rugby AU. How this plays out will be interesting

 

[Set piece magic]

In terms of any structure of an alternate super rugby competition.

1. It must be simple - and the administrators surely know this. The conference system is opaque, results in fan anger when teams that have objectively won less games are promoted etc. This rifled and rightly alienated NZ fans. Get to the finals on merit, not on being a quota.

2. Don't split the Super Rugby season with June intls. This was another momentum killer. One season.

3. Shorten the season, slightly. This can be done by having less teams than the prior S100 or S17 or whatever it is. A trans-tasman comp, with 5 NZ teams 4/5 Aus teams and potentially 1/2 other teams could achieve this. Taking advice from Wangetti old boy man about adding more NZ teams being a folly and not in their interest could be wise, but gives me concerns about the competitiveness of Aus teams

4. Season shall be compromised of a home and away fixture. Each team will play the other home, and away.

Broadcast Structure
All games will take place on Friday, Saturday & Sunday, no mid week fixtures.
In a 12 team comp this would give 6 games a week or 5 games some weeks with byes
I'd like to see 2 Friday games, 3 Saturday Games and a Sunday game. This wouldn't be profit maximising on the broadcast monetary value - but would balance the social capital we want from fan accessibility with monetary capital for ensuring the future of the game and attracting player talent.

Finals
2 semi finals, 1v4 and 2v3
1 final, top seeded
all hosted by top seeded team

Assuming you give everyone two byes, this gives a 13 week reg season, 2 weeks finals for net 15 week season. Perfect length for a provincial rugby comp. This would see the comp start in March and Finish in early June. I reckon this is the model that's most in Australia's interests going forward, not sure about NZ though.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

In terms of any structure of an alternate super rugby competition.

1. It must be simple - and the administrators surely know this. The conference system is opaque, results in fan anger when teams that have objectively won less games are promoted etc. This rifled and rightly alienated NZ fans. Get to the finals on merit, not on being a quota.

2. Don't split the Super Rugby season with June intls. This was another momentum killer. One season.

3. Shorten the season, slightly. This can be done by having less teams than the prior S100 or S17 or whatever it is. A trans-tasman comp, with 5 NZ teams 4/5 Aus teams and potentially 1/2 other teams could achieve this. Taking advice from Wangetti old boy man about adding more NZ teams being a folly and not in their interest could be wise, but gives me concerns about the competitiveness of Aus teams

4. Season shall be compromised of a home and away fixture. Each team will play the other home, and away.

Broadcast Structure
All games will take place on Friday, Saturday & Sunday, no mid week fixtures.
In a 12 team comp this would give 6 games a week or 5 games some weeks with byes
I'd like to see 2 Friday games, 3 Saturday Games and a Sunday game. This wouldn't be profit maximising on the broadcast monetary value - but would balance the social capital we want from fan accessibility with monetary capital for ensuring the future of the game and attracting player talent.

Finals
2 semi finals, 1v4 and 2v3
1 final, top seeded
all hosted by top seeded team

Assuming you give everyone two byes, this gives a 13 week reg season, 2 weeks finals for net 15 week season. Perfect length for a provincial rugby comp. This would see the comp start in March and Finish in early June. I reckon this is the model that's most in Australia's interests going forward, not sure about NZ though.

Or just go with a 10 team, 18 round competition with a top 4 finals system. That's 90 games in the regular season with 3 finals games. Though NZ aren't interested.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Thinking about it. Let Super Rugby go back to 14 by cutting the Sunwolves. Allow for the Top League team linked to GRR take up the mantle. Make Super Rugby a straight 13 weeks plus 3 week finals system. Total 16 weeks. Aligned with GRR. Then move the NRC forward and combine the Force, Drua and the Samoan squad with the 4 Aus Super Rugby squads and play another 6-8 weeks. Look to get the WS team in GRR to bring it to 8.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Or just go with a 10 team, 18 round competition with a top 4 finals system. That's 90 games in the regular season with 3 finals games. Though NZ aren't interested.

because the broadcasters ain't gunna pay Super Rugby money for an NRC/ M10-quality comp.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

because the broadcasters ain't gunna pay Super Rugby money for an NRC/ M10-quality comp.

It would essentially be Super Rugby without the SA conference. I'd imagine it would be above both competitions in regards to quality. I don't know about NZ but here the Aus, NZ and Aus v NZ games rate better than those featuring SA, Arg and the Sunwolves.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ with no SA/ Euro time zone content the broadcaster rights value plummets as we already know 'cos they've been asked what they'd pay for such a comp. Therefore teams can't pay players top dollar therefore the best players fuck off to NH & from Day 1 of the Brave New Comp it's NRC/ M10-quality at best.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^ with no SA/ Euro time zone content the broadcaster rights value plummets as we already know 'cos they've been asked what they'd pay for such a comp. Therefore teams can't pay players top dollar therefore the best players fuck off to NH & from Day 1 of the Brave New Comp it's NRC/ M10-quality at best.

I'll have to look it up but I've seen it mentioned that the games that rate the highest up north are those featuring both the NZ and Aus teams oddly enough. I agree with you that it will be tough. Absolutely. But things are already snowballing that way anyway with the NH asserting itself more and more both on and off the pitch.

And you're overlooking a significant factor here. A TT competition has a far greater chance of becoming relevant again in Australia. Which is a market that has shown that is has no issue dolling out the cash for a product it see's value in. It's something I consider a huge missed opportunity over the years on behalf of all parties involved in the SANZAAR alliance.