Where to for Super Rugby?

[half]

The article is online now so I have copied the parts I am talking about. Also have bolded some bits

A-League executives are reserving judgment on declining television ratings until streaming figures are available and a clearer picture emerges of just how much the viewing habits of football fans have changed in a shifting technological landscape.
Two rounds into the new campaign, ratings on Fox Sports are down by approximately 31 per cent on last season. It's a concerning fall, particularly given there was also a sharp 24 per cent decrease last season, but there are several mitigating circumstances.

For one, crowds are up in both the A-League and W-League, which indicates wider interest levels in the game haven't simply nosedived. Foxtel subscriptions have been on the slide as audiences flock to services like Netflix and Stan, while Optus' recent purchase of the English Premier League rights has impacted on how fans of the round ball game spend their money.
Anecdotal evidence also suggests there has been a significant take-up of the new My Football Live app launched by Football Federation Australia this season, which offers Telstra customers free streams of all A-League, W-League and FFA Cup matches.
Greg O'Rourke, the head of the A-League, said FFA would not receive data on how many times matches have been viewed through the app for another week or two, as collection methods are not as sophisticated as they are for TV ratings. The numbers may not be released publicly if Telstra deems them to be commercial in confidence, but O'Rourke is hoping they will neatly explain the shortfall.
"It's a bit of a wait and see," O'Rourke said. "Every streaming view is obviously going to close that gap. We have to wait three or four weeks to see if it's doing as we had forecast or whether or not we've got more work to do in that area."
Foxtel is poised to unveil their own response to the streaming revolution. The pay TV giants are expected to roll out a platform which CEO Patrick Delany has described as the "Netflix of sport" in the coming weeks. It could allow punters to access competitions like the A-League at a much lower price point than through a traditional cable connection.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The article is online now so I have copied the parts I am talking about. Also have bolded some bits

A-League executives are reserving judgment on declining television ratings until streaming figures are available and a clearer picture emerges of just how much the viewing habits of football fans have changed in a shifting technological landscape.
Two rounds into the new campaign, ratings on Fox Sports are down by approximately 31 per cent on last season. It's a concerning fall, particularly given there was also a sharp 24 per cent decrease last season, but there are several mitigating circumstances.

For one, crowds are up in both the A-League and W-League, which indicates wider interest levels in the game haven't simply nosedived. Foxtel subscriptions have been on the slide as audiences flock to services like Netflix and Stan, while Optus' recent purchase of the English Premier League rights has impacted on how fans of the round ball game spend their money.
Anecdotal evidence also suggests there has been a significant take-up of the new My Football Live app launched by Football Federation Australia this season, which offers Telstra customers free streams of all A-League, W-League and FFA Cup matches.
Greg O'Rourke, the head of the A-League, said FFA would not receive data on how many times matches have been viewed through the app for another week or two, as collection methods are not as sophisticated as they are for TV ratings. The numbers may not be released publicly if Telstra deems them to be commercial in confidence, but O'Rourke is hoping they will neatly explain the shortfall.
"It's a bit of a wait and see," O'Rourke said. "Every streaming view is obviously going to close that gap. We have to wait three or four weeks to see if it's doing as we had forecast or whether or not we've got more work to do in that area."
Foxtel is poised to unveil their own response to the streaming revolution. The pay TV giants are expected to roll out a platform which CEO Patrick Delany has described as the "Netflix of sport" in the coming weeks. It could allow punters to access competitions like the A-League at a much lower price point than through a traditional cable connection.

Okay. Just looked up the app. Says it has 100k downloads which certainly seems encouraging but I'm interested in the retention side of it because for most apps that figure is generally below 5% and the reviews for it are not great. I'd be inclined to believe the 6k figure as this is part of the Telstra streaming package and you can actively track viewership via an app.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Stew & WRC

Maybe I don't write well, maybe my communication skills are beyond poor,

The article I read clearly said it would be at least two to three weeks before the actual figures are out. So nothing published to date is worth anything and second this is not about the A-League measurements nor about the A-League in general.

What SCREAMS OFF THE ARTICLE is FFA are waiting on what the streaming figures are. This means they don't have them yet nor is anything published close to the mark.

But as I said SCREAMING IS THE ISSUE of what are the actual streaming figures as the print screen grab at any point in time is totally useless.

The article is about STREAMING and does this or sorry how many are screaming rather than watching on pay TV. This will equally apply to rugby.

Maybe Stews post and the person who posted it was spot on. However the article gave a totally different picture and it was from the head of the A-League.

Just to repeat this has nothing to do with the A_League its about how many people are actually streaming A-League matches and my assumption is that will apply equally to rugby. Again so its clear nothing published to date is close to the mark the actual may be less who knows.

An example how do you count someone who watches for 1 second.

This is all new stuff its just happens to be the A-League where people are looking to get a complete reading.

You could also read that in a way that suggests they know the figures but aren't willing to say anything right now hoping that they'll see an uptick in viewership as the season builds. Because Telstra would know the figures and I find it unlikely that the FFA aren't aware of them as well.

 

[half]

WCR

You keep coming back to A-League figures as if that is whats being talked about.

We could be talking about the NRL or AFL or Cricket it just happens to be its the A-League that is being analysis-ed on what these are. The issue is streaming numbers.

This is simply an attempt to determine how many people are actually watching and if all the teck heads are sayings its difficult to determine and it takes four weeks to get a handle on it no offence but I doubt you have the solution at hand.

What will be interesting is how many you could be spot on and its 5 or 6 k . But what ever the outcome I suggest it will be similar to rugby.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The viewing numbers aren't difficult to determine. Two weeks delay is frankly laughable for a digital product.

What's difficult is for the head of FFA to spin what the numbers say in the most positive light possible given the disasters Foxtel ratings.

I take your point that RA aren't even in a position to spin any numbers though.

 

[half]

^^^^^^^

I surrender I should have simply opened a discussion about streaming rather than mention what another code is doing to determine their numbers, as the other code numbers become the topic and attacking their numbers and excuses is good for all.

I surrender that when they say they don't have the numbers and the calculation is difficult they are telling lies.

Further there is nothing rugby can learn from what they are doing.

I also pay my huge respect to the forum for having the answers the teck heads and boofins are struggling to determine.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^^^^^

I surrender I should have simply opened a discussion about streaming rather than mention what another code is doing to determine their numbers, as the other code numbers become the topic and attacking their numbers and excuses is good for all.

I surrender that when they say they don't have the numbers and the calculation is difficult they are telling lies.

Further there is nothing rugby can learn from what they are doing.

I also pay my huge respect to the forum for having the answers the teck heads and boofins are struggling to determine.

Mate, I work in the industry.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...broadcast-uplift-in-2021-20181101-p50dg8.html

Nothing is going to change rugby is utterly fucked in this country. The bullshit in this is mind boggling.

 

[Rebels3]

Can we stop referencing the a-league full stop. The league minus 1/2 derbies gets equally bad crowds, viewership numbers are worse than super rugby and the administration is constantly at each other’s throats.

 

[sunnyboys]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...broadcast-uplift-in-2021-20181101-p50dg8.html

Nothing is going to change rugby is utterly fucked in this country. The bullshit in this is mind boggling.

I can’t agree with this more!! Not once does Castle talk about lifting viewer and crowd numbers - it’s always just about the f$$king money!

 

[Dan54]

I can’t agree with this more!! Not once does Castle talk about lifting viewer and crowd numbers - it’s always just about the f$$king money!

Well she was has just finished talking to TV people about broadcasting money, so guess thay didn't really discuss crowd sizes, I know what you mean about it's always money, but unfortunately it's a professional sport and money is probably one of the most important things they have to discuss.

 

[hoggy]

Well she was has just finished talking to TV people about broadcasting money, so guess thay didn't really discuss crowd sizes, I know what you mean about it's always money, but unfortunately it's a professional sport and money is probably one of the most important things they have to discuss.

Yes money is the most important, and look where all that money has got rugby in 2018. Not even an attempt to address the underlying issues of why the code is pretty much dying in this country. So now their selling sold they whole f____g thing lock, stock & barrel. no strings attached.

That pretty much sums it up, the game in this country will not recover from this, yes a few people will do well, like they have done in the last 20 yrs. This is RIP for rugby in Australia.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yes money is the most important, and look where all that money has got rugby in 2018. Not even an attempt to address the underlying issues of why the code is pretty much dying in this country. So now their selling sold they whole f____g thing lock, stock & barrel. no strings attached.

That pretty much sums it up, the game in this country will not recover from this, yes a few people will do well, like they have done in the last 20 yrs. This is RIP for rugby in Australia.

Mate, as much as I agree on the continued atrophy of the game in this country. Money is a very large factor that needs to be taken into consideration. The real issue is what and where that money goes and is used for. For too long it has gone to over bloated levels of administration and to dolling out contracts to overpriced and predominantly under-performing talent.

And I agree. Even with an increase that will likely remain the status quo sadly enough.

Much of the games issues are structural. It's broken up into too many interconnected pieces that while reliant on RA are also largely in conflict with it. Looking at it from a business organisational perspective the game is run utilising a divisional structure (and I hate acknowledging that a class I took at Uni largely to 1) Pad out my makes during a particularly difficult session of law courses and 2) Meet women, is actually making sense here) with RA essentially being the umbrella organisation feeding the Union (the divisions) all the while they to operate as separate business with their own divisions (SRU etc.) within.

The structure is clunky, contradictory and hugely inefficient and expensive. It needs to be overhauled into a far more functional structure which would cut down on overlap, waste and most important free up finances to be invested (ideally) to where they are most needed. However, under RA's current constitution and factoring in all the special interest groups involved this would require the 'Turkeys to vote for Christmas'. Which consider a very vocal grouping of said Turkey's are actually looking at creating yet another 'division' in the form of this supposed club association its safe to say the game is fucked.

 

[sunnyboys]

I’m not yet ready to call R.I.P. but a continuation of Super Rugby as is, or even with just removing conferences, will consolidate the fall in crowds and viewers we’ve seen. And that detachment by fans will continue to seep into Test viewers and crowds, and also participation numbers.

 

[kiap]

with RA essentially being the umbrella organisation feeding the Union (the divisions) all the while they to operate as separate business with their own divisions (SRU etc.) within.

The structure is clunky, contradictory and hugely inefficient and expensive. It needs to be overhauled into a far more functional structure which would cut down on overlap, waste and most important free up finances to be invested (ideally) to where they are most needed. However, under RA's current constitution and factoring in all the special interest groups involved this would require the 'Turkeys to vote for Christmas'. Which consider a very vocal grouping of said Turkey's are actually looking at creating yet another 'division' in the form of this supposed club association its safe to say the game is fucked.

Oddly reminiscent of the British car industry.

Leyland and all that, with around twenty internally competing divisions.

'Twas not a happy story.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

-

Oddly reminiscent of the British car industry.

Leyland and all that, with around twenty internally competing divisions.

'Twas not a happy story.

Yep. Too many moving pieces independent of one another. Too many conflicting interests all blind to the real issues. Recipe for disaster. Divisions may work for huge companies spanning several industries largely detached from one another but not in our case. Put simply the business isn't large enough and operates in a single far to narrow of a marketplace to justify its current structure.

 

[hoggy]

I’m not yet ready to call R.I.P. but a continuation of Super Rugby as is, or even with just removing conferences, will consolidate the fall in crowds and viewers we’ve seen. And that detachment by fans will continue to seep into Test viewers and crowds, and also participation numbers.

Exactly, all the lessons from Super rugby over the last 20 years, and they've just doubled down on the exact same strategy, all with a smile.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I’m not yet ready to call R.I.P. but a continuation of Super Rugby as is, or even with just removing conferences, will consolidate the fall in crowds and viewers we’ve seen. And that detachment by fans will continue to seep into Test viewers and crowds, and also participation numbers.

Here's the thing. I still think Super Rugby can turn the corner. It's not too late just yet. It's not far from being so but not yet. But what concerns me is that the necessary leadership and vision to actually achieve this isn't present at any level of the alliance. Again far too many interests groups all pulling in different directions. Look at RA for instance. At no stage has it ever looked at Super Rugby as anything other than a development pathway to the Wallabies. An extended trial system. Which has led to an over reliance on the national team.

Now look at our rival codes in the NRL and AFL. They have approached their competitions in a completely different mindset. They've elected to chase value in them at any opportunity. The differences in marketing efforts alone speaks volumes. If Super Rugby wants to truly remain or regain its prominence in regards to Rugby competitions in this country we need a complete change in mindset of exactly what Super Rugby is and what it represents.

 

[sunnyboys]

Don’t like to nit pick but I noticed Castle referring to Super Rugby as “our domestic competition”....

If that’s the way they view it - then they need to address issues of access to viewing, scheduling of games, gaps in the schedule etc - all the things that make this comp hard to truly commit to, and what leaves Rugby vulnerable to NRL and AFL many Friday and Saturday nights during Australia’s traditional footy season months

 

[wamberal]

We are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.


The simple truth is that we just do not have a national domestic competition that is anything like that of the AFL and NRL. I have spelled out the reasons before, they are mostly to do with good planning (in the case of the AFL) and good fortune (in the case of the NRL).


The NRC is the best we can do, and it is way behind the 8 ball in terms of popularity. Super Rugby has had periods of popularity, and at its best, it is very good sporting entertainment.


The other two have domestic competitions that are built around traditional clubs and rivalries. Tradition does not happen overnight, it takes many years. A century in some cases.