Where to for Super Rugby?

[WorkingClassRugger]

Don’t like to nit pick but I noticed Castle referring to Super Rugby as “our domestic competition”..

If that’s the way they view it - then they need to address issues of access to viewing, scheduling of games, gaps in the schedule etc - all the things that make this comp hard to truly commit to, and what leaves Rugby vulnerable to NRL and AFL many Friday and Saturday nights during Australia’s traditional footy season months

If that's RA's legitimate position then they have shat the bed royally for close to decades now.

 

[sunnyboys]

Isn’t the (supposed) main drawcard of Super Rugby the international component?

You can tell that the international component of Super Rugby isn’t the the drawcard it’s lauded to be by the fact that for 5+ years the focus has been on more local derbies - and now we have Castle trying to flog it as our “DOMESTIC COMPETITION”!!!

 

[hoggy]

Isn’t the (supposed) main drawcard of Super Rugby the international component?

It is only a draw-card if it attracts a greater audience, whatever we have gained from some overseas broadcacter, we have ten times lost in domestic worth.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It is only a draw-card if it attracts a greater audience, whatever we have gained from some overseas broadcacter, we have ten times lost in domestic worth.

From memory the majority of the higher rating games have been derbies. Which I think speaks volumes.

 

[half]

WCR & Stew with sorries to Rebels 3.

Please please please to the power of please understand this post is about """"streaming""" yes """ streaming""' not the A-League. Whatever number comes up whats important is the percentage and the trend.

Just happens this is where a lot of research is taking place and both the AFL & NRL are looking closely at whats going on.

I came across a general sports article on streaming when in response to the head of the A-League saying we don't have the figures and its estimated to be large.

Some quoted the 6K, published. I have copied below bits and pieces of a couple of posts that as I said earlier put this in a totally new light and I repeat my gut feeling is this applies equally to rugby.

Please accept this is about streaming and almost by accident its the A-League under the spot light. This puts streaming into a totally new area, and something we should be looking at in great detail and also as the NRL & AFL watching what comes out of this. The post below indicates the streaming is estimated to be a third and growing and thats not counting some in the sample.

Post say one in part read in part and also the reaction on this forum.

The Melbourne derby had an online rating of 6,000.
Post say two & three in parts only i.e whats specific to streaming. People are unsure on how many more will take up the Telstra service which is free.

To be clear that is Fox’s streaming number or put another way, 6,000 people watched on Foxtel Go even though they had an IQ box in their house. They probably watched Go because they had to e.g. they were travelling.
You don’t have access to the MyFootball data, even Greg doesn’t have that, and estimates are putting that at as much as 1/3 of the Fox figure.
So 169,000 people watched across ONE and Fox plus the 6,000 streaming, that’s a total audience of 175,000 plus the MyFootball App (which if the 1/3 estimate is correct puts the total audience over 200k).
The main point of this though is not a “blurring” between traditional tv and on-line, it’s a total and utter severing with young kids largely not watching any traditional tv, ever. Ask a kid what their favourite tv show is and most can’t answer, ask them who their favourite YouTuber is and you’re in for a long discussion.

------------------------

The Telstra platform is going to be interesting. Telstra has over 12 million mobile customers. All these customers now have access to every ALeague & WLeague match for free. This has never happened before.

 

[sunnyboys]

have just read the Australian's coverage of this same conversation with Castle about broadcast deals. the direct quote it uses differs from the one used by SMH. Its quote has Castle saying "You cant look at Super Rugby in isolation. There's our domestic comp, there's Super Rugby, there is our international product and then there's the World League".

thats quite different to the SMH version:
"The interesting thing is what package do you take to the broadcasters? You can’t look at Super Rugby in isolation," she said.
"Our domestic competition is Super Rugby, [there's] our international product and then there’s the potential of this World League and that is no doubt a strategic conversation from World Rugby to see if we can maximise our broadcast rights right across the world.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Isn’t the (supposed) main drawcard of Super Rugby the international component?

You can tell that the international component of Super Rugby isn’t the the drawcard it’s lauded to be by the fact that for 5+ years the focus has been on more local derbies - and now we have Castle trying to flog it as our “DOMESTIC COMPETITION”!!!

I reckon the main drawcard is international standard players based in Australian teams. Call it a domestic comp if you want, but really it's just a name.

The only way that has been possible is the GMT timezone TV subsidy, and enough foreign teams to play against that we can concentrate payments to the select few 150 or so players and keep wages somewhat competitive.

Now a lot of those reasons are disappearing (not least of which is that we aren't seeing the same number of international standard players because the wages aren't competitive)

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

WCR & Stew with sorries to Rebels 3.

Please please please to the power of please understand this post is about """"streaming""" yes """ streaming""' not the A-League. Whatever number comes up whats important is the percentage and the trend.

Just happens this is where a lot of research is taking place and both the AFL & NRL are looking closely at whats going on.

I came across a general sports article on streaming when in response to the head of the A-League saying we don't have the figures and its estimated to be large.

Some quoted the 6K, published. I have copied below bits and pieces of a couple of posts that as I said earlier put this in a totally new light and I repeat my gut feeling is this applies equally to rugby.

Please accept this is about streaming and almost by accident its the A-League under the spot light. This puts streaming into a totally new area, and something we should be looking at in great detail and also as the NRL & AFL watching what comes out of this. The post below indicates the streaming is estimated to be a third and growing and thats not counting some in the sample.

Post say one in part read in part and also the reaction on this forum.

The Melbourne derby had an online rating of 6,000.
Post say two & three in parts only i.e whats specific to streaming. People are unsure on how many more will take up the Telstra service which is free.

To be clear that is Fox’s streaming number or put another way, 6,000 people watched on Foxtel Go even though they had an IQ box in their house. They probably watched Go because they had to e.g. they were travelling.
You don’t have access to the MyFootball data, even Greg doesn’t have that, and estimates are putting that at as much as 1/3 of the Fox figure.
So 169,000 people watched across ONE and Fox plus the 6,000 streaming, that’s a total audience of 175,000 plus the MyFootball App (which if the 1/3 estimate is correct puts the total audience over 200k).
The main point of this though is not a “blurring” between traditional tv and on-line, it’s a total and utter severing with young kids largely not watching any traditional tv, ever. Ask a kid what their favourite tv show is and most can’t answer, ask them who their favourite YouTuber is and you’re in for a long discussion.

------------------------

The Telstra platform is going to be interesting. Telstra has over 12 million mobile customers. All these customers now have access to every ALeague & WLeague match for free. This has never happened before.

The MyFootball App provides access to the Telstra streaming of the games. Which means it would in all likelihood be counted in the 6k.

I'm not anti-streaming. Not at all. I've been a fan of diversifying our broadcasting platforms for some time but you have to be very careful not to over estimate or over sell the reach or market surrounding it. Working in the tech sphere you see so many examples of companies entering the market with the next big thing on the assumption. Not the actual data to support it. But the assumption that a market either exists or there's a groundswell of individuals/businesses lying dormant just waiting for their new innovative product.

Streaming is notoriously difficult to monetise. Well, if you start off offering it for free or relying on advertising revenues to pay the bills. And even then it's no picnic for the subscription based services either.

An example of this is Yahoo. They decided to make the move into the streaming market. They went out and commissioned a few original programs and purchased the rights to 'Community' all for something like $42m USD. They made the business decision to rely on advertising revenue and not subscriptions to drive this product forward.

Long story short the service collapsed after a year.

Even in the states a country that has been a leading in the sports streaming industry they are still hugely reliant on broadcast TV. Hugely. Though that has more to do with the general break up of the varying levels of the respective sports etc.

So if you are to go down this path you have to do it right. You have to ensure that the platform you build offers enough value to justify the price. You also need to make sure that market exists to make it profitable. Ironically, I actually think as opposed to our major competitors we in Rugby have an advantage in that regard. Even over Soccer. You would be able to get a lot more of the high quality leagues on the one platform as opposed to both the NRL (which really only has the ESL) and AFL (which is just the AFL) while the monies demanded by the big European leagues in Soccer (widely regarded as the best on offer) would be prohibitive for Soccer here.

But this could all be rendered moot if the heavily hinted at Fox Sports split away from the rest of the Foxtel packaging occurs. As they'd easily be able to ask $25/month for unlimited access to practically any sport you so wish.

 

[half]

^^^^^^^^^^
WCR

You still keep coming back to trying to determine the number which no one knows. What has perked a lot of interest is that maybe a third or more people are streaming the Fox broadcast.

Into a context, if a game rated 100 K, it would equate to 67K on Fox & 33K on various streaming outlets all in some way connected to Telstra.

If the """One Third""" number is anywhere near correct, it changes future revenue streams and future sponsorship's.

As I keep emphasising this is not about either a number or a code. Its about what percentage of a sports broadcast is being streamed as opposed watched in more tradition big screen live environment.

Finally the broad assumption is whatever the percentage breakdown between streaming and Fox of the A-League will hold true for other codes. Meaning Super Rugby may also be streaming a third or maybe more of its viewing audience.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^^^^^^^^
WCR

You still keep coming back to trying to determine the number which no one knows. What has perked a lot of interest is that maybe a third or more people are streaming the Fox broadcast.

Into a context, if a game rated 100 K, it would equate to 67K on Fox & 33K on various streaming outlets all in some way connected to Telstra.

If the """One Third""" number is anywhere near correct, it changes future revenue streams and future sponsorship's.

As I keep emphasising this is not about either a number or a code. Its about what percentage of a sports broadcast is being streamed as opposed watched in more tradition big screen live environment.

Finally the broad assumption is whatever the percentage breakdown between streaming and Fox of the A-League will hold true for other codes. Meaning Super Rugby may also be streaming a third or maybe more of its viewing audience.

First of all. Try hitting the reply button. It makes things easier. Second, did you only read the top two sentences of a much longer post? Seriously buddy. Read it. Particularly the bit where I said streaming is notoriously difficult to monetise.

 

[kiap]

First of all. Try hitting the reply button. It makes things easier.

Sometimes it does. Sometimes doesn't. If quoting …

a much longer post

… and it is not cropped to the relevant point, then it's spam, cuz.

The shit written on these forums ain't good enough to be read twice.

^^^^^^^^^^

This multi arrow caper is unnecessary, though. It's rude to keep jabbing fingers at people.

^ Just giving 'em just the one finger is okay. One 'bird' is enough!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Sometimes it does. Sometimes doesn't. If quoting …

… and it is not cropped to the relevant point, then it's spam, cuz.

The shit written on these forums ain't good enough to be read twice.


This multi arrow caper is unnecessary, though. It's rude to keep jabbing fingers at people.

^ Just giving 'em just the one finger is okay. One 'bird' is enough!

No likes a smart arse, mate.

 

[wamberal]

No likes a smart arse, mate.

Or a dumb arse, either.

 

[kiap]

^ Tru dat

 

[hoggy]

This is just laughable, so Castle thinks the world league will deliver the pots of gold they need to keep drinking the Whiskey, yet this guy is not so sure, and awaiting details, so why aren't there any, because lets face they don't have any details, but hey if we sell the whole fucking thing were bound to get more money.

The only thing for sure is rugby in Australia will be the loser, no strings attached, so you sell the whole thing to a pay TV operator, and it will be good for our game (just like they promised with Super rugby), we'll all be rich once we take over the world.

But hey they'll be lots more money for the grassroots once we've paid everybody.

look at Super rugby, they have no idea past 2020 except another mission statement and lets tweak the timetable, yeah that'll be what aussie rugby needs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-the-rugby-championship-to-build-world-league

 

[hoggy]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...s-best-players-says-sanzaar-boss-andy-marinos

It just gets better, the small cost of being competitive at the international level, a game that doesn't exist domestically. AHH!!! those pesky headwinds

 

[sunnyboys]

To put Marinos' comments in context. He is in charge of two comps that the constituent unions design and endorse. You are hardly going to get him to say bad stuff about his own job.

As far as Oz is concerned, Castle is the one who should be talking about suitability of comps to meet our domestic priorities.

SANZAAR isn't in charge of marketing the game in each domestic market or growing fan numbers in any one country.

I think the fact that all he can talk about is player development speaks volumes of Super Rugby's poor track record in other KPI's.

Right now SANZAAR is attempting to achieve only 2 things: producing test players and making enough cash to keep as many of those players from the North.

Crowds and viewers come much further down the list. but one day those small crowds and viewing numbers in the SANZAAR countries will start eroding the value of the SANZAAR comps. and thats when the real trouble will start (worse than the trouble we already have). Managers are notoriously conservative about giving up existing revenue streams... thats why the buzz word "burning platform" was created. I reckon the firestack under the platform has been built... not sure it has been lit just yet... but someone is definitely checking their pockets for a box of matches.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

This is just laughable, so Castle thinks the world league will deliver the pots of gold they need to keep drinking the Whiskey, yet this guy is not so sure, and awaiting details, so why aren't there any, because lets face they don't have any details, but hey if we sell the whole fucking thing were bound to get more money.

The only thing for sure is rugby in Australia will be the loser, no strings attached, so you sell the whole thing to a pay TV operator, and it will be good for our game (just like they promised with Super rugby), we'll all be rich once we take over the world.

But hey they'll be lots more money for the grassroots once we've paid everybody.

look at Super rugby, they have no idea past 2020 except another mission statement and lets tweak the timetable, yeah that'll be what aussie rugby needs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-the-rugby-championship-to-build-world-league

I'm not against the idea of a 'World League'. In fact I wrote about it as a T2/3 structure run bi-annually. But I think this concept is too narrow and ill-conceived. Just 12 nations doesn't offer much at all in terms of differentiation from the status quo and running it annually seems like flogging the horse.

If they were to get this going then run it across two year featuring 16 teams. This would at the very least open things up to a handful of emerging nations and markets. A particular prominent one as well.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

To put Marinos' comments in context. He is in charge of two comps that the constituent unions design and endorse. You are hardly going to get him to say bad stuff about his own job.

As far as Oz is concerned, Castle is the one who should be talking about suitability of comps to meet our domestic priorities.

SANZAAR isn't in charge of marketing the game in each domestic market or growing fan numbers in any one country.

I think the fact that all he can talk about is player development speaks volumes of Super Rugby's poor track record in other KPI's.

Right now SANZAAR is attempting to achieve only 2 things: producing test players and making enough cash to keep as many of those players from the North.

Crowds and viewers come much further down the list. but one day those small crowds and viewing numbers in the SANZAAR countries will start eroding the value of the SANZAAR comps. and thats when the real trouble will start (worse than the trouble we already have). Managers are notoriously conservative about giving up existing revenue streams. thats why the buzz word "burning platform" was created. I reckon the firestack under the platform has been built. not sure it has been lit just yet. but someone is definitely checking their pockets for a box of matches.

Bad managers are for sure. Good ones see the impeding implosion and then work to get everyone on board to effect actual change.

 

[Rebels3]

Anyone else notice Campo last night tweeted that South Africans poised to quit Super Rugby. Would love to see where he got the gos from