Where to for Super Rugby?

[Strewthcobber]

Yeah I reckon in an ideal world you'd have
Brisbane Ballymore
South Queensland Robina
Northern Beaches Brookvale
North Shore North Sydney
Eastern Sydney SFS
Western Sydney Parramatta
Canberra
Melbourne
Perth
An other(Drua etc)

18 rounds + finals + byes gets you 26 weeks

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[WorkingClassRugger]

Taking about half of the current Wallabies with them? Where would that allow the Wallabies to improve? RA and Cheika seem to say the right words but actions speak louder than words. Would anyone playing WRC really be picked for the Wallabies? And if WRC is a lower level competition how would form of those players be assessed?

I've suggested just how they could be assessed head to head in a number of previous posts. We could either run a short form Cup competition in the post season of both competition leading into the July window or we could look to emulate the succesful trial concept from this year with a Super Rugby v WSR teams playing one another. Both sides selected by the national set up.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Here's my prediction of what WILL actually happen:

The conference system will go, and Super Rugby will adopt a simple round robin format with 3-4 weeks of finals. This will finish before the July Inbounds.

The amount of teams will be reduced from 15 to 14.

The Rebels will be cut, but this time RA will follow the example of the SARU and work with Twiggy for the Rebels to join the Force in WSR.

The whole thing will be sold as "going back to the original and the best format for Super Rugby".

Alongside this, RA will promote some form of the NRC (that includes the Force and the Rebels) as our domestic competition, to be played from July-October.


So it will be the same formula, different packaging. RA won't jump ship just yet. They will go another round.

What do others predict? Put your bets down.

I'd be all for the Rebels moving across to WSR joining the Force and the mooted WS team. As I've suggested previously that would offer an few interesting opportunities with a 3/3 split. As long as there are some rules around recruit set out from early on.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/...f"-playing-in-the-northern-hemisphere/608095#

From the current President of SA Rugby.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/saru-president:-sa-teams-"better-off"-playing-in-the-northern-hemisphere/608095#

From the current President of SA Rugby.

What I find curious is the addition of two more SA teams to Pro 14 before the next Super rugby format is known or supposedly known.

SA will end up with 7 pro teams come 2021

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What I find curious is the addition of two more SA teams to Pro 14 before the next Super rugby format is known or supposedly known.

SA will end up with 7 pro teams come 2021

They are also supposedly going to essentially halve their professional playing numbers from 900 to 450 while making a number of the existing provincial sides amateur/semi-pro at best. The idea is that the professional franchises will then be able to contract 50 deep.

 

[hoggy]

They are also supposedly going to essentially halve their professional playing numbers from 900 to 450 while making a number of the existing provincial sides amateur/semi-pro at best. The idea is that the professional franchises will then be able to contract 50 deep.

Are they going to make the Currie Cup less professional ?
But if they add two more teams to Pro 14, are they then committing 4 teams to Super post 2020.

Just a thought that super may go to 12 teams with a 5/3/3/1 split post 2020.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Are they going to make the Currie Cup less professional ?
But if they add two more teams to Pro 14, are they then committing 4 teams to Super post 2020.

Just a thought that super may go to 12 teams with a 5/3/3/1 split post 2020.

It appears they want a 4/4 split which would give them 400 contracts with the other 50 being 7s etc..

 

[Strewthcobber]

Bear in mind that SARU is just about broke (case reserves of $1m) and these comments were made in the context of justifying why they spent a (relative) fortune ($3m loss last year) on getting those two teams into Europe.

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/sa-rugby-in-financial-strife/


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[dru]

At the moment all provinces in the Currie Cup, both Premier and Div 1 are nominally professional. What is happened g is a locking down of pro status to the Premier division only, with Div 1 to become non-pro. Griquas (I am a sporadic fan of the Kimberly boys( and the Pumas are the only provinces in the Premier Currie Cup that are not “franchises”.

That’s a big word in RSA rugby in a way that never really has the same meaning here in Aus. They’ve been searching for a Euro route to franchise status for a while. I thought it was to be the Anglo-Celt comp, I don’t know much about UK rugby but I understand this as a “lessor” comp to Pro 14.

Griquas, God love ‘em, will be whacked in Pro “16”. Pumas moreso.

In the mean time SARU has chased “shrink to greatness” with bold strategy to increase pro rugby. And they have set the ground work to call SANZAR negotiations with a clear B Plan.

Where is RA - beside meekly following big brother to a Super comp that works for the All Blacks?

Laugh all you want at SARU finances, they are in a different league to RA for business acumen and leadership IQ.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

At the moment all provinces in the Currie Cup, both Premier and Div 1 are nominally professional. What is happened g is a locking down of pro status to the Premier division only, with Div 1 to become non-pro. Griquas (I am a sporadic fan of the Kimberly boys( and the Pumas are the only provinces in the Premier Currie Cup that are not “franchises”.

That’s a big word in RSA rugby in a way that never really has the same meaning here in Aus. They’ve been searching for a Euro route to franchise status for a while. I thought it was to be the Anglo-Celt comp, I don’t know much about UK rugby but I understand this as a “lessor” comp to Pro 14.

Griquas, God love ‘em, will be whacked in Pro “16”. Pumas moreso.

In the mean time SARU has chased “shrink to greatness” with bold strategy to increase pro rugby. And they have set the ground work to call SANZAR negotiations with a clear B Plan.

Where is RA - beside meekly following big brother to a Super comp that works for the All Blacks?

Laugh all you want at SARU finances, they are in a different league to RA for business acumen and leadership IQ.

The Anglo-Welsh Cup was primarily used as a development tool for the regions and Premiership clubs. I think the whole idea of the Griquas/Pumas entering Pro 14 is somewhat fanciful as I really cannot see the Pro 14 nations willingly excepting anything less than the current Super Rugby franchises.

 

[The Snout]

I wish we were brave.

I'm sick of Super Rugby. I don't want to see Hawaii play Honduras in Super Rugby at 2am AEST. I'm tired of the Waratah's, Rebel's and Red's referred to as 'franchises'. I want the jumper to represent something, represent the best the state has to offer in rugby.

I want a national competition with our best players. And that might mean taking a hair cut for quite some time before our best players would stay here. The thought of a modest local comp as our foot forward engages with me as a fan in a way Super Rugby no longer does.

I have no answers, it's a complex question involving the reality of money. Sometimes though, you have to put away the slide rule and just ask yourself what do you truly want.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Lets stop the BS on this situation...we get to only 3 professional rugby teams in oz (irrespective of whether WSR or Super Rugby teams) it means game over for rugby in this country....

As the 'genius' or 'gurus' suggesting this is a good thing need to compare to the former 4th football code called A-League who is well entrenched now with rugby ineptitude and expanding pro teams.

Oh and since rugby went pro in oz - AFL and NRL and A- League all expanded pro teams whilst in contrast......stuff it you know the answer....

Can we really stop with the dumb shit that we can shrink our way to greatness....and frankly Rugby Reg you have really imho sounded the death knell for oz rugby to snouggest wallabies can do well with only 3 any professional teams. Sounds like dumb arse RA view which is why we are where we are.....

ps Apologies if my post offends any posters - that was not really the intent - just a frustrated rusted on rugby fan who sees probably the best opportunity for rugby to move forward with some collaboration between RA and Twiggy as you only get one Twiggy in your lifetime so I hope RA don't stuff it up

 

[half]

Lets stop the BS on this situation.we get to only 3 professional rugby teams in oz (irrespective of whether WSR or Super Rugby teams) it means game over for rugby in this country..

As the 'genius' or 'gurus' suggesting this is a good thing need to compare to the former 4th football code called A-League who is well entrenched now with rugby ineptitude and expanding pro teams.

Oh and since rugby went pro in oz - AFL and NRL and A- League all expanded pro teams whilst in contrast..stuff it you know the answer..

Can we really stop with the dumb shit that we can shrink our way to greatness..and frankly Rugby Reg you have really imho sounded the death knell for oz rugby to suggest wallabies can do well with only 3 professional teams. Sounds like dumb arse RA view which is why we are where we are...

Just to add a tad to your post, and sorry in advance to those sensitive types who don't like working practical examples.

First link is someone has ranked the remaining 9 bids that made the cut for the A-League, and the second is the ACT gov saying they will put 1.25 million each year a successful Canberra bid.

Remember bid number one in the ranking is by a bloke who wants a union side but understands he can't get it sigh.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/footb...d/news-story/412a33cab40493a8e5c91848a6054e1f


https://www.insidesport.com.au/news/cash-boost-for-canberra-bid-511840

 

[Strewthcobber]

Always interesting when we despair over the state of Super Rugby to see what crowds the "successful" competitions are getting.

First round of the premiership in England was this weekend
Bristol drew a healthy 26k, but the remaining 5 games had 13k, 11k, 7k, 10k, 7k.
Average of around 12k

Pro 14
9k, 6k, 3k, 5k, 12k, 11k, 4k
Average of around 7k

 

[sunnyboys]

Fair observation Strewth.

The concern here is more based on the trend - and for both crowds and viewers it has been South.

NRL doesn’t need crowds the size of the AFL to win broadcast money, but they make up for it in viewer numbers.

Rugby needs at least one of those measures to go their way...

 

[dru]

Comments against a domestic alternative to Super Rugby mostly are centred on a lack of quality and offering a poor broadcast product.

I would think that last weekend's NRC showed a quality and entertainment level that meets those key criteria. Noting that this is without the involvement of the Wallaby squad. You would also hope that over time the quality actually increases.

The limitations in the NRC relate to being a make up competition in a make up time slot forming a competition that doesn't stand on it's own feet and presents a confused face to the non-rusted-on as to how it fits, and without real connection to the grass roots in NSW.

An Australian professional second tier competition using 8 teams (with a true national footprint) across a full season with appropriate marketing looks workable. Increase with internationals (eg Drua/Japan) subject to finances. You could feed into the season a SOO style rep comp as a selection battleground for the EOYT for the Wallabies. That process could integrate with a Champions League style "Super" comp that involves NZ/RSA/Argentina subject to their interest (or otherwise I don't care).

If Twiggy and his comp can move the whole shebang in this route, make it so.

Quickly.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Comments against a domestic alternative to Super Rugby mostly are centred on a lack of quality and offering a poor broadcast product.

I would think that last weekend's NRC showed a quality and entertainment level that meets those key criteria. Noting that this is without the involvement of the Wallaby squad. You would also hope that over time the quality actually increases.

The limitations in the NRC relate to being a make up competition in a make up time slot forming a competition that doesn't stand on it's own feet and presents a confused face to the non-rusted-on as to how it fits, and without real connection to the grass roots in NSW.

An Australian professional second tier competition using 8 teams (with a true national footprint) across a full season with appropriate marketing looks workable. Increase with internationals (eg Drua/Japan) subject to finances. You could feed into the season a SOO style rep comp as a selection battleground for the EOYT for the Wallabies. That process could integrate with a Champions League style "Super" comp that involves NZ/RSA/Argentina subject to their interest (or otherwise I don't care).

If Twiggy and his comp can move the whole shebang in this route, make it so.

Quickly.

You would also add the wsr western Sydney team to this and possibly other wsr teams with no other pro Comp to join Eg Hong Kong.

The fact Japanese wsr sides compete in top league means they would be unlikely and not required for nrc involvement.

I have a feeling this is intent from twiggy and RA but until see confirmed may just be wishful thinking on my part.


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[Lorenzo]

I don't really understand any of the issues (economics of various proposals, club politics), but isn't there an issue attracting support for new, made up teams? I have never let a lack of understanding prevent me from posting before, so..

I'm imagining a comp with the best four (or so) from the shute shield, the best 3 (or so) from the brisbane comp, the force, the rising and the vikings.

 

[Lorenzo]

I've just realised that i omitted the Tahs, Brumbies, Reds and Rebels, which was a bit silly as this is a Super rugby thread. I guess my post was really about how to generate interest in a comp that sits below the comp in which the tahs, brumbies, reds and rebels participate. I.e how to create an NRC in which people are genuinely interested.