Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

The South African teams would presumably do a five week tour instead of four. 2 away games in Australia and 3 in NZ/Fiji.

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Is that sounding reasonable and workable to you, Braveheart?

PS does the math mean a 5 or a 6 week tour?

 

[gel]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12080243&ref=rss

NZ Hearld are reporting that SANZAAR are meeting at the moment and have a preferred Super Rugby model post World Cup.

14 team round robin comp, Finished before the test window in July. 14 teams includes a Pacific Island team, probably based on Fiji. Means two teams need to go, which is probably Sunwolves + a SA team, or two SA teams, who could head north to play on the Pro comp

The reds simply HAVE to go. They are an embarrassing organisation that hold the competition back. Any discussion about why the reds stay in the tournament is moot.

Discussion on which other team to go is valid.

(all the queensland and nsw players that play for the other states can be picked to play for the representative waratahs and reds who play two games after the super rugby has finished and before the test series.)

 

[Strewthcobber]

Is that sounding reasonable and workable to you, Braveheart?

PS does the math mean a 5 or a 6 week tour?

Some will have 6 Home games & 7 Away games.

If it's just two SA teams then one of them could be in a different country for 7 matches.

If it's 3, then each will have one home and one away game against the others so may need 6 weeks away for the rest of the comp

 

[dru]

7 Home games & 7 Away games.

If it's just two SA teams then one of them is going to be in a different country for 7 matches.

They play each other, so my math makes it a 6 or 7 week tour, or more likely 2 3 week tours. Strewth, I'm with you.

Given the amount of travel is possibly THE key issue for SARU, this is a Super option that sounds like a pipe dream.

 

[Strewthcobber]

They play each other, so my math makes it a 6 week tour, or more likely 2 3 week tours.

Given the amount of travel is possibly THE key issue for SARU, this is a Super option that sounds like a pipe dream.

I edited the one above, sorry Dru.

 

[dru]

I edited the one above, sorry Dru.

As did i. lol.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Interesting about reports of 14 teams for revamped Super Rugby comp from 2020 which makes sense as broken and with alignment of world rugby calendar from 2020 time to instigate changes early.

Our wish list would surely have to be:
- less SA teams
- more open borders policy where NZ players etc eligible for ABs etc if play in competition (like what Twiggy was pushing for with his competition for Wallabies eligibility!) - this would be hardest to achieve but most critical to create a more balanced competition. Is this even being tabled - who knows but NZ obviously would not be keen so I am doubtful and rather just my wish list to actually make a viable cross border rugby product.
- Involvement of twiggy and force - see above as only way could work (plus Twiggy's money of course directed towards oz interests)…..but that of course is going against grain of WSR for next year - reconciling how WSR and Super Rugby works is what will be interesting intrigue for me. Twiggy + RA = 3 for me (p.s. I am going to try and stop bagging RA and give them benefit of the doubt from here they will do the right thing - huge leap of faith I know).

Anyhow got the popcorn and will wait to see what unfolds....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Japan have to play a role for professional rugby in our region....it is more rules need to be changed to accommodate them being successful as commercially they are too attractive not to.

 

[half]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12080243&ref=rss

NZ Hearld are reporting that SANZAAR are meeting at the moment and have a preferred Super Rugby model post World Cup.

14 team round robin comp, Finished before the test window in July. 14 teams includes a Pacific Island team, probably based on Fiji. Means two teams need to go, which is probably Sunwolves + a SA team, or two SA teams, who could head north to play on the Pro comp

Many on the forum have often posted how wrong I am, and how i don't or more refuse to undersatnd.

I repeat my often [but not in a while] posted belief, that SANZAAR has become a bureaucracy of its own when it [ SANZAAR's ] welfare is greater than any of the unions it represents!!!!!!!!!!

Rating & Crowds heading south to the point that Netball will get better crowds and rate more.

Consider how far we have fallen in both ratings and crowds say since 2004 to 2012 to now.

Only the Wallabies IMO keep us in the news. Its time for something new, a new beginning.

For those old enough to remember.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is that sounding reasonable and workable to you, Braveheart?

PS does the math mean a 5 or a 6 week tour?

13 game regular season means 6 or 7 away games. If the Jaguares stay in then playing away there would probably not be part of the larger tour for the South African teams.

The Oz/NZ/Fiji tour could end up being 6 weeks which is a long tour but I tend to think that is more likely than doing it twice during the season.

It's definitely hard for the South African teams if they only have two teams.

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[hoggy]

Completely giving up on NRC?

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In Australia, going to the market place with Test rugby from July on-wards you are then expecting the NRC to compete against the NRL and AFL, this may work in SA and NZ but here ? and what happens when the Wallabies are struggling with that ever important win %. This may be a better format moving forward but as with every format change in Super rugby you are not addressing the underlying issue facing the code in Australia.
They are moving deckchairs.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is your solution to stop playing our biggest test series of each season?

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[hoggy]

Is your solution to stop playing our biggest test series of each season?

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So now it is our biggest test series, does this include one of games against Fiji or Scotland. You are missing my point. You are pretty much devoting 6 months of the season to a structure that has limited domestic penetration.

Yes perfect for the NZ with the All Blacks and SA looking North, but Australia?
How does the game become more popular here with the outside chance of the Wallabies not being world beaters every year

 

[dru]

13 game regular season means 6 or 7 away games. If the Jaguares stay in then playing away there would probably not be part of the larger tour for the South African teams.

The Oz/NZ/Fiji tour could end up being 6 weeks which is a long tour but I tend to think that is more likely than doing it twice during the season.

It's definitely hard for the South African teams if they only have two teams.

Argumentative agreement, BH?

Surely we look for some kind of sustainability from from a revised Super, if so for the Saffers, what the NZ H proposes is not it. IF the proposal excludes re-introduction of the Force (let alone another cut), it is not for us Aussies either. imo.

Not doubt it is either idle speculation from errant journos or an ambit leaked from NZRU - always start your bidding low, eh? Either way is is an indicator of NZ feelings and to be frank, imo opinion anyway, it is a set of attitudes that is not worth entering.

As half says "it is time".

@half - amazing times, mate. I was only a kid but remember the theme well, completely contagious, just at a point in time where I was becoming politically aware. And panicked parents doing their best to keep things stuck in the groove of the past.

 

[Braveheart81]

So now it is our biggest test series, does this include one of games against Fiji or Scotland. You are missing my point. You are pretty much devoting 6 months of the season to a structure that has limited domestic penetration.

Yes perfect for the NZ with the All Blacks and SA looking North, but Australia?
How does the game become more popular here with the outside chance of the Wallabies not being world beaters every year

No, I'm talking about the Rugby Championship.

Test rugby will continue to be central to the rugby calendar. We need other rugby happening at the same time but there is no reality where we just stop playing the test season so our best players are playing in a domestic comp.



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[hoggy]

No, I'm talking about the Rugby Championship.

Test rugby will continue to be central to the rugby calendar. We need other rugby happening at the same time but there is no reality where we just stop playing the test season so our best players are playing in a domestic comp.



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And I think this is the catch 22 we face, should test rugby be central to the rugby calendar. Where has that got rugby here in 2018. It is the pinnacle of the game but we are trying to turn it into a weekly comp, there is a reason gold is valuable.

To me this new structure is doing as much as they can without actually doing anything. The question is? is this the way forward for the game here, or does it just ensure all those same people get there weekly pay checks.

Will rugby gain anymore popularity in Australia under this structure, i don't think it will.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Japan have to play a role for professional rugby in our region..it is more rules need to be changed to accommodate them being successful as commercially they are too attractive not to.

I know the Wild Knights were seriously entertaining a run at Super Rugby before the whole contraction issue. I would honestly prefer the rules to be loosened for the likes of Japan with the focus on recruiting to ensure they are competitive first (they can even look to do this with the goal of qualifying talent) and their national team second.

Could even look at it as a model for the Force if they were to return to Super Rugby. If Forrest is willing to maintain his backing then let them recruit wherever they wish to acquire talent in order to ensure they are competitive.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Watching the Jags finally begin to deliver I still hope we see SA move north in regards to Super Rugby but stay in the RC while the Jags stay. From there we could either look to re-integrate the Force. Add either another Japanese or Argentine squad plus the mooted PI squad. That's 14. Could even add another squad from either one of Japan or Argentina. Whichever one of the two that doesn't fit in the above scenario. That would be 15 teams.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I know the Wild Knights were seriously entertaining a run at Super Rugby before the whole contraction issue. I would honestly prefer the rules to be loosened for the likes of Japan with the focus on recruiting to ensure they are competitive first (they can even look to do this with the goal of qualifying talent) and their national team second.



Could even look at it as a model for the Force if they were to return to Super Rugby. If Forrest is willing to maintain his backing then let them recruit wherever they wish to acquire talent in order to ensure they are competitive.

The problem is NZ is so dominant as a rugby nation and there is limited tools available to ensure equalisation of talent across teams participating outside NZ where they rely on recruiting only largely from within national boundaries which is why Super Rugby is a failed concept as a cross border competition. This is where twiggy's WSR marquees concept and his push for oz players who represent other teams in the comp outside of the force was really the right idea. RA knocked this one on the head so really do we expect NZRU to agree to NZ players to be eligible for AB's if they play for other non NZ Super Rugby teams. And there lies the problem why despite the attractiveness of playing a trans tasman competition why it won't work and hence better to look at our own domestic comp or a competition along the lines Twiggy trying to create (but which been scuppered by RA in their refusal to allow oz players who play for other non Force WSR teams to be eligible for Wallabies).

I am hence less confident of the viability of super rugby mark 2 unless really prepared to look at this issue. But reality is while one of biggest issues to solve (equalisation of teams and providing for more uncertainty of outcome) wholesale change is needed across the whole super rugby product which is dated and does not meet oz needs (moreso for Oz who have bigger competitors of AFL and NRL in their home market) in terms of the rugby product appeal and game day experience (along the lines of what Twiggyball been looking at).

 

[hoggy]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12081466

It looks like the Kiwis don't want conferences anymore