Where to for Super Rugby?

[Ulrich]

To be honest if the political climate in SA continues to deteriorate then at least Aus and NZ won't be needing SA money anymore because it will be worth nothing.

EDIT: Not to mention Australia will get a huge influx of Saffers which should help your cause down the line.

 

[Dan54]

All the "just walk away" talk I've heard has been from west of the ditch & I've yet to see any "what comes next" that doesn't assume the Wobs retain their place in TRC. Fairly presumptuous IMO.

EDIT: I'd count myself among the more if not pro-Aussie then at least not anti-Aussie rugby fans you'll find on any Rugby website anywhere & even I'm getting to the "you wanna go? Then just go" stage with you guys.

Funny WOB, I was thinking exactly same thing, I have heard absolutely noone from NZR saying anything but that they want to work something out that suits EVERYONE, including NZ, SA, Aus ,Arg, and Japan. I keep hearing and reading how stuff the kiwis, Saffas, etc we will just play with ourselves, (and you can take it however you want), but if Aus pulls out of Sanzaar, the Aus teams will
a, win every week, b, have a lot less travel c, all the games played exactly at the time to view Aus viewers and d, will show the Sanzaar that it should be run ONLY to suit Aussie rugby.
The big risk is of course that a; There will be a lot less TV money coming in as I not sure if European TV will pay much for an Aussie comp (or maybe they do for NRC?)b; The rugby will stagnate as perhaps the 5 Aus teams playing each other will not give any diversity for players to improve, c;As Sanzaar runs TRC I assume that Wallabies will find another comp to play in, d;There will be stuff all quality players left in Aus as there will no money to compete with NH clubs.
Will be a shame because I consider myself (like WOB) as someone who wants to see Aus rugby doing well, as I do rugby in any country, but being involved in it here,I want it for Aus rugby a bit more than most others! But also like WOB I almost getting to point of saying ok go your own way!

 

[wamberal]

But but but. Surely you understand that all we have to do is change the ARU Board and management and everything will be fine. Just wait for a few weeks.

 

[Quick Hands]

But but but. Surely you understand that all we have to do is change the ARU Board and management and everything will be fine. Just wait for a few weeks.

Alas Wamberal, it will be a long time before everything with be fine. The current crop of managers and those immediately before them have seen to that. It's a long, long haul back from where we are and it will take the best available sports administrators (as opposed to bankers, and corporate hangers on) to get us back to anywhere near where we were a generation ago.

You're right that the ARU board and management should go as a prerequisite of this. Welcome to the revolution.

Note post #1400 on the attached thread.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...lans-for-the-future.16546/page-70#post-920012

 

[The torpedo]

But but but. Surely you understand that all we have to do is change the ARU Board and management and everything will be fine. Just wait for a few weeks.

All the change doesn't happen at the top. Change STARTS at the top.

That's what everyone ordering the ARU management up against the wall means

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

All the "just walk away" talk I've heard has been from west of the ditch & I've yet to see any "what comes next" that doesn't assume the Wobs retain their place in TRC. Fairly presumptuous IMO.

EDIT: I'd count myself among the more if not pro-Aussie then at least not anti-Aussie rugby fans you'll find on any Rugby website anywhere & even I'm getting to the "you wanna go? Then just go" stage with you guys.

I don't recall saying anything like that WOB. I'm just saying that just bowling along like we've been doing with a competition design that doesn't seem to be working isn't a great idea. To a degree I can understand the NZRU's position if the quoted article is accurate. The Saffers are your oldest and biggest foe, I get that. I want for there to be some way for all parties to stay together, but in the end it may not work out that way. If it weren't to, I'd rather us play in a Trans-Tasman comp with you blokes, Japan and the PI's. If that doesn't work then maybe it has to be us going our own way and not playing in TRC. With that said, I'm not sure how you could continue with the comp with a top four rugby nation not being in it. Not for one minute do I want that to be the outcome. In all honesty I think I'd walk away from the game if it all imploded like that.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Funny WOB, I was thinking exactly same thing, I have heard absolutely noone from NZR saying anything but that they want to work something out that suits EVERYONE, including NZ, SA, Aus ,Arg, and Japan. I keep hearing and reading how stuff the kiwis, Saffas, etc we will just play with ourselves, (and you can take it however you want), but if Aus pulls out of Sanzaar, the Aus teams will
a, win every week, b, have a lot less travel c, all the games played exactly at the time to view Aus viewers and d, will show the Sanzaar that it should be run ONLY to suit Aussie rugby.
The big risk is of course that a; There will be a lot less TV money coming in as I not sure if European TV will pay much for an Aussie comp (or maybe they do for NRC?)b; The rugby will stagnate as perhaps the 5 Aus teams playing each other will not give any diversity for players to improve, c;As Sanzaar runs TRC I assume that Wallabies will find another comp to play in, d;There will be stuff all quality players left in Aus as there will no money to compete with NH clubs.
Will be a shame because I consider myself (like WOB) as someone who wants to see Aus rugby doing well, as I do rugby in any country, but being involved in it here,I want it for Aus rugby a bit more than most others! But also like WOB I almost getting to point of saying ok go your own way!

I sincerely hope that's right D54. I think you can understand where a lot of us Aussie fans are coming from though. There is a bit of resentment from a lot of us feeling like we're not in control of our destiny and a lot of decisions are going to be made that feel like we're going to be the big losers out of it.

 

[The torpedo]

I think you mean their carparks underneath ARU HQ, the new Taj Mahal ARU HQ features underground carparks for corporate.. it also features a small gym for the players

Should we march on them a la this?

 

[kiap]

All the "just walk away" talk I've heard has been from west of the ditch & I've yet to see any "what comes next" that doesn't assume the Wobs retain their place in TRC. Fairly presumptuous IMO.

There is some presumption, yes, fair enough. But to tease this out, let's presume Australia is out of TRC. What would this mean?

• Maybe Australia doesn't play Argentina again for (say) another five years. Takes something out of the mix, for sure, but it could be acceptable.
• What about if Australia doesn't play South Africa again for (say) another five years? That would be a much bigger loss but probably still survivable.
• The fixture loss that would really hit the ARU, though, is the Bledisloe. That's the drawcard event where all legs are watchable and pulls in the most revenue.

So NZ might have leverage there. But, saying that, abolishing the Bled would also hit the NZRU. Not only in terms of revenue but also for players flying extra miles with proportionally more games in:

RSA (12,000 km away)
ARG (10,000 km away)
JPN (9,000 km away)
… Even Singapore is 8,500 km from New Zealand.

The test window would be just more of that long distance road as already increased for Super Rugby. And let's hope Steve Tew gets England to host the ABs again before he cuts Australia loose. But I suspect the Bledisloe and its associated annual cash will survive ahead of some sort of plea to return Super Rugby to 1999.

The big thing, though, is this: It's the continuous decline in interest across the board and downward broadcast value that has sealed the fate of Super Rugby. Beyond salvaging something to 2020, the regular season intercontinental model is bust - and the only sensible option is to exit. This Soup is done.

 

[stoff]

Nah stuff it. I'm rule 10ing myself


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^^ another proposed format that assumes Australia can just walk away from one SANZAAR comp & retain their place in the other. Seriously, if ARU tells SARU, NZRU & UAR to go fuck themselves Super Rugby-wise, why would they say "oh, OK then, see you in August, September, whenever suits you guys, just drop us a line when you feel like it".

The Brown Hornet has a point.
If you lose us then you're off to SA or Europe or you just play a domestic comp - which is very good - but in the end the NZ market is finite and not just in dollar terms.
And, once the game dies here you'll be fighting the Ozzie mungoes as they expand to the only other country vaguely interested in league.
The interests of NZ rugby and Oz rugby are the most closely aligned in the mid to long term.
Trouble is no one is thinking mid to long term.

 

[Omar Comin']

All the "just walk away" talk I've heard has been from west of the ditch & I've yet to see any "what comes next" that doesn't assume the Wobs retain their place in TRC. Fairly presumptuous IMO.

But we always hear about how important it is for NZ and SA teams to play each other in the regular season so surely they'd both be quite happy for Australia to leave Super Rugby (or have its own closed regular season conference) while staying involved in TRC? You'd be able to have a lot more of those important NZ vs SA games.

 

[PaarlBok]

Will be perfect if SA and NZ can do long tours like in the past. In fact it will spin more money like the current situation.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The Brown Hornet has a point.
If you lose us then you're off to SA or Europe or you just play a domestic comp - which is very good - but in the end the NZ market is finite and not just in dollar terms.
And, once the game dies here you'll be fighting the Ozzie mungoes as they expand to the only other country vaguely interested in league.
The interests of NZ rugby and Oz rugby are the most closely aligned in the mid to long term.
Trouble is no one is thinking mid to long term.

Correct. We're better off together than apart in the long term.

 

[dru]

^^^^^ another proposed format that assumes Australia can just walk away from one SANZAAR comp & retain their place in the other. Seriously, if ARU tells SARU, NZRU & UAR to go fuck themselves Super Rugby-wise, why would they say "oh, OK then, see you in August, September, whenever suits you guys, just drop us a line when you feel like it".

Perhaps you're right that it's presumptive to presume SANZAR would split their thinking about internationals and Super R. Certainly the ARU have made this point.

Perhaps let me approach it another way. Right now what is offered just doesnt work for us.

It is in NZ's interest to see Aus back to 2 maybe 3 competitive rep teams. Our interest too if you listen to Alan Jones. This current way doesnt work without reducing rugby, not just reducing Super Rugby teams. and it actually accelerates the negative down trend in Aus rugby.

Allow Aus to withdraw, maintain the RC. Allow the development of an Aus domestic comp - this needs to be built from the existing five teams. Not four, five. Return to Super/Champions League once this is set. Two rep teams perhaps, like it used to be. Not two Provincial teams, but two rep teams.

Over that time, we can expect to see SA rugby decline as an interest to Super Rugby anyway. I suspect you'll be wanting Aus back. But if we havent sorted out our shit, nothing lost. Drop the WBs then if necessary.

 

[Brumby Runner]

To be honest if the political climate in SA continues to deteriorate then at least Aus and NZ won't be needing SA money anymore because it will be worth nothing.

EDIT: Not to mention Australia will get a huge influx of Saffers which should help your cause down the line.

Mostly heading for Perth if the past is any guide. Aw sorry, there isn't any rugby in Western Australia any more.

 

[Brumby Runner]

On the message coming out of NZ, I think the worst part of it is that the Aus conference remains at 5 teams, but one is from Japan rather than from the West.

 

[Moono75]

Will be perfect if SA and NZ can do long tours like in the past. In fact it will spin more money like the current situation.

We'd be happy to enforce a no fly zone for NZ teams travelling over Australia....they have no airforce so what are they gonna DO about it. They could take the paddle steamer out of Wellington on a 3 week slow cruise to SA, enjoy a spot of gin rummy, shuttleboard, then retire to the saloon for a G&T and read the Herald old chap. Spanking idea I say what what

 

[Moono75]

On the message coming out of NZ, I think the worst part of it is that the Aus conference remains at 5 teams, but one is from Japan rather than from the West.

I wonder if they would contemplate having a couple of Sunwolves games played out of Perth against transiting SA or NZ teams to break up the trip? Would go out of my way NOT to support this.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

'We should play an Australia-only comp' or 'we should play in a trans-Tasman competition' just shows a limited understanding of the situation at hand. Half the point of Super Rugby and SANZAAR is the pooling of resources (read 'television contracts'). The small population of NZ, rugby being a niche sport in wealthy Australia and SA being between the two means that SA, NZ, and Aus are largely co-dependent in that respect.

A stand-alone Australian comp involving 5-6 teams would be of even lower quality than the current model, with fuckall interest from anyone (especially ex-pats). And looking at the current situation, do you honestly see any reasonable NZ fan going to the pub to watch a foregone conclusion against an Australian team in a trans-Tasman comp? I'm fairly sure that most kiwi rugby supporters consider SA to be their traditional rivals.

Also regarding rejigging a conference system - just can it. If it takes more than 30 seconds to read the explanation of a competition, people will just stop caring. Go back to round robin, best 6 or 8 teams make the finals. No 'we didn't play Canterbury this year' or 'they played the Cheetahs and Kings TWICE this season'. Just the best teams playing high pressure finals football.