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Where to for Super Rugby?

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N

NTT

Guest
In lieu implies that you are owed credit. It means that you've done something to earn a future reimbursement. It is different to an exchange of liability through sale. The $6million quoted is to supplement the exchange of liability. Its that simple.
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
^^^ last two pages

Reds Happy

Referring to our discussions on the media deal and your excellent posts on same.

I agree with everything you said.

However my understanding is media deals are not as set in stone as many think. They have minimum metrics and if a code constantly falls below the minimum then it triggers revaluation clauses in the contracts.

I also recall reading most of the uplift in the new media deal was for European ratings.

My reading of the Tea Leafs & Taro Cards is there was a lot of press before the crisis talks began in London about falling ratings in Europe and SA. I think the broadcasters in lieu of falling ratings have declared their intention to enforce metric clauses unless ratings can be in line with what was promised by rugby.

My further reading of the Tea Leafs & Taro Cards is surveys and information gathering has said noncompetitive games, loss of many talented players etc is seen as a major cause of the rating decline.


Essentially unlike before the broadcasters are not willing to buy sport for the sake of having sport, they have product now. The broadcasters want to make a profit and my guess they are experiencing losses.
 

stoff

Trevor Allan (34)
In lieu implies that you are owed credit. It means that you've done something to earn a future reimbursement. It is different to an exchange of liability through sale. The $6million quoted is to supplement the exchange of liability. Its that simple.

You are completely right. I used an incorrect term. My unreserved apologies.

If you want to talk about bogging down a thread' Lou75 made a comment, I replied, he then replied back. 3 posts, Discussion done. You used the same number of posts to complain about how I worded something.

Anyway, we are now really bogging down the thread so I'm moving on. Hope you can too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
N

NTT

Guest
You are completely right. I used an incorrect term. My unreserved apologies.

If you want to talk about bogging down a thread' Lou75 made a comment, I replied, he then replied back. 3 posts, Discussion done. You used the same number of posts to complain about how I worded something.

Anyway, we are now really bogging down the thread so I'm moving on. Hope you can too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correcting inaccurate information is not my definition of bogging down a thread. To me bogging down a thread is continually quoting inaccurate information multiple times then spreading the same innacuracies to other threads.
 

zer0

John Thornett (49)
Someone in the NZ media is reporting (or speculating, as there's no sources mentioned) that the cut will come this week.

[The cut is due]..... this week with the Western Force, Kings and Cheetahs to be cut as the competition returns to its 2015 format.

.....

It was decided in London last month that Super Rugby would return to 15 teams. The delay in announcing this, which has frustrated some of those involved, is because the broadcasters and national unions have to agree to the changes. New Zealand and Argentina have ticked their boxes. South Africa pretty much too. Australia is the stumbling block. If they don’t concede then all bets are off because Sanzaar requires all parties to agree to any proposed changes.

.....

.....we will see a return to the format used from 2011-2015 with three conferences. It will see a full round of New Zealand derbies - games that are hugely popular with fans, but not so much with coaches who see their players bashed to bits overs the eight brutal matches. The New Zealand teams will then play four of the five Australian teams (the Sunwolves moving into the Aussie conference) and four of the five South African teams (who have the Jaguares in their conference). The three conference winners and the five “next best” will then form a top eight.

And on a trans-Tasman competition:

The New Zealand union sees little value in what would effectively be an overgrown domestic competition that involves Australian teams. The All Blacks coaches like having players coming through the ranks who have played South Africans in South Africa; who are used to the travel and different conditions; and who understand what it takes to win abroad. And though South Africa has threatened to head north before, where would they go? There is no room for them in the Aviva Premiership, and would they turn their backs on playing the All Blacks to compete in the Six Nations? Hardly.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@rugby/2017/04/04/18008/super-rugby-d-day-three-teams-facing-the-chop

No idea how reliable the author is, so take it for what you will.

EDIT: Though he is on the new NZ news website that is focused more on actual journalism as opposed to click-bait, so that may lend him a bit of credibility despite the lack of sources.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Everyone says that the ARU can veto this.
They should show some balls and do so or face the fans and tell them they won't and give their reasons and there is no need in either case to wait to hear what SARFU say.
If they do have the power of veto then there is simply no excuse for their silence: the power of veto means that they choose the ending.
I wonder if this fiasco will be included in future Harvard MBA courses "How to trash your customer base" or "PR -(101)".
 

joeyjohnz

Sydney Middleton (9)
Fuck NZ. Seriously, they don't care about anyone, or anything else but their AIG's.

We shouldn't give 1 iota about anything bar the Wallabies. Cutting the Wallaby player base by 20% won't help the Wallabies gain competitiveness.

Not when there's as many Aussies contracted overseas as there are in Super Rugby...
 

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Everyone says that the ARU can veto this.
They should show some balls and do so or face the fans and tell them they won't and give their reasons and there is no need in either case to wait to hear what SARFU say.
If they do have the power of veto then there is simply no excuse for their silence: the power of veto means that they choose the ending.
I wonder if this fiasco will be included in future Harvard MBA courses "How to trash your customer base" or "PR -(101)".

ARU don't have any fuckin balls all they give a shit about is their carparks outside ARU HQ.

They'll be an example of 'how not to manage an organisation' in Management courses
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Someone in the NZ media is reporting (or speculating, as there's no sources mentioned) that the cut will come this week.



And on a trans-Tasman competition:



https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@rugby/2017/04/04/18008/super-rugby-d-day-three-teams-facing-the-chop

No idea how reliable the author is, so take it for what you will.

EDIT: Though he is on the new NZ news website that is focused more on actual journalism as opposed to click-bait, so that may lend him a bit of credibility despite the lack of sources.

The condescension is a bit much but I guess he thinks the kiwis are entitled to condescend to us
 

Dismal Pillock

Michael Lynagh (62)
Everyone says that the ARU can veto this.
They should show some balls and do so
but.... but.. they "bravely" veto it and SA then turn around and say fuckyuz then, if you're not cutting a shit team then we're not either, you're shitter than us after all, and hello, we're all back to square 1 and stuck with the Super 18 tard ranch ribbon-for-everyone bok moneyball bollocks comp that every c**t already hates.
 

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
For this weekend - everyone take signs to games disapproving the cutting of the Force. spread it on Twitter, Facebook, any social medium you can to let people know that we don't like this
 

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
but.. but.. they "bravely" veto it and SA then turn around and say fuckyuz then, if you're not cutting a shit team then we're not either, you're shitter than us after all, and hello, we're all back to square 1 and stuck with the Super 18 tard ranch ribbon-for-everyone bok moneyball bollocks comp that every c**t already hates.

Then we rearrange it to this:

I'd put Argentina in the NZ conference - play every team in your conference 2x, 3 team in 1 conference 1x, and 3x teams in the other conference 1x. 16 games, 2 byes for each team. Add in not only a bonus point for scoring 3+ more tries than your opponent, but a bonus point for scoring 4 tries.

Top 2 from each conference go through to finals (seeded - division winners get seeds 1-3, wild card teams get seeds 4-6)

QF: 4 v 5 & 3 v 6 (1 & 2 bye)
SF: 1 v lowest seed winner & 2 v highest seed winner
GF: winners of SF

voi maddafacking la
 

joeyjohnz

Sydney Middleton (9)
The condescension is a bit much but I guess he thinks the kiwis are entitled to condescend to us

I'm glad I'm not the only one that read it like that.

Does NZ really think they can sustain Super Rugby by flying over Australia to South Africa every second week?

IMO the future of Super Rugby is in the Champions Cup format (5 pools of 4 teams) with teams from NPC, Currie Cup, NRC, J-League (with international entries from Canada & USA & Fiji

NRC = Super Franchises + Western Sydney, Fiji & Sunwolves. 8 teams, H&A fixtures.

Super Rugby = 20 teams, an extra team from Fiji, USA & Canada. (South Africa lose a team)

This is what the calendar would look like this year with the global season applied

Feb - May - Domestic 14 Rounds + Finals.
Feb 3: R1
May 6: R14
May 13: Semi's
May 20 Final
May 27 - July 1: (6) Pool Rounds of Super Rugby
July 8 - 22: Autumn Internationals
July 29 August 12: - Soop finals
August 19 - October 15 - Rugby Championship
November 1 - 15: November Internationals.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
^^^^^ another proposed format that assumes Australia can just walk away from one SANZAAR comp & retain their place in the other. Seriously, if ARU tells SARU, NZRU & UAR to go fuck themselves Super Rugby-wise, why would they say "oh, OK then, see you in August, September, whenever suits you guys, just drop us a line when you feel like it".
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
If that is the view of the NZRFU then they will drown with the ship along with everyone else. The competition is starting to get unviable as it is and the overreach is pretty clear to a lot of us. The All Blacks and Kiwi domestic sides will continue to be a force (pardon the pun) like they've always been, but commercially if the comp implodes how does that benefit them?

I think what's going to happen if the parties can't agree is a continuation of what we have with some fiddling around the edges and the slow death to follow.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
ARU don't have any fuckin balls all they give a shit about is their carparks outside ARU HQ.

They'll be an example of 'how not to manage an organisation' in Management courses

I think you mean their carparks underneath ARU HQ, the new Taj Mahal ARU HQ features underground carparks for corporate.... it also features a small gym for the players
 

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
A letter to the ARU I hammered out just now. Feedback and suggestions welcome:

Dear members of the ARU board

I am writing to you to express my concern over your decision to cut the Western Force Super Rugby team. From reading the news, it appears that your justification for the axing of the Force is that cutting a team will make the other four franchises stronger, as the best players from the Force will move to the other four franchises and increase the strength of the teams, making them (as is implied) more competitive against New Zealand, South African, Argentinian and Japanese opposition. What you have failed to consider, are a couple of key negatives that eclipse the supposed positive you have implied above.

The first one – academies and player development.
By cutting one team, what you are doing is removing 20% of the development pathways for young men and women who want to play rugby professionally – where will you get more young players from? The Western Force, through their local academies, have produced (and helped to produce) players such as Adam Coleman, Harry Scoble, Dane Haylett-Petty, Pek Cowan, Ben McCalman and Ross Haylett-Petty among others. All are considered to be Super Rugby quality players, and some are even test quality players. Where will these players come from? The other four franchises are (presumably) running at full capacity and cutting one team will mean cutting 20% of Australian Rugby’s capability to spot and develop players like the above suggested. You have also seemingly not considered the stress the Western Force players are under regarding their future (as I have been reliably informed). If I was managing any player for the Western Force, I would encourage them to head for Europe or Japan to gain financial security for their future.

The second one – attendances and television ratings
Another thing you have failed to consider is the public’s viewing of rugby. As we all know, this sport is a wonderful game that many people are aware of, and in this competitive environment, we are fighting a battle with AFL, NRL and the A-League for the public eye. So why do you insist on shooting yourself in the foot by removing 20% of the potential audience in the Force? You may claim low attendances, but having say 5,000-10,000 people attending a Western Force game is much better than no-one in Perth attending a game because they don’t exist. The same goes for ratings. While they are nearly halved from last year (a major cause for concern), having a total of 55-60 thousand people watching a Western Force game (about 50k on television) is still better than 0 people watching because they have been cut. It is also a large potential viewership space, as there is a lack of an NRL team in Perth (and the Perth Glory finish in April-May, depending on performance) has given the Western Force an interesting niche as arguably the second most popular winter sport in Western Australia (in terms of television ratings). There has been talk of NRL expansion back into Perth in the media which, if you cut the Western Force, will seal rugby’s fate in WA. Rugby, in this time of need, requires as many people to know about it to remain in the eyes of the Australian sporting public. Cutting the Western Force will see a 20% decline in interest in rugby for the public and accelerates the death of rugby in this country

In conclusion, I strongly advise you to veto the SANZAAR proposals to remove teams and bring this suggestion for a redressing of the Super Rugby competition to the table:

I'd put Argentina in the NZ conference - play every team in your conference 2x, 3 team in 1 conference 1x, and 3x teams in the other conference 1x. 16 games, 2 byes for each team. Add in not only a bonus point for scoring 3+ more tries than your opponent, but a bonus point for scoring 4 tries.

Top 2 from each conference go through to finals (seeded - division winners get seeds 1-3, wild card teams get seeds 4-6)

QF: 4 v 5 & 3 v 6 (1 & 2 bye)
SF: 1 v lowest seed winner & 2 v highest seed winner
GF: winners of SF
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
If that is the view of the NZRFU then they will drown with the ship along with everyone else. The competition is starting to get unviable as it is and the overreach is pretty clear to a lot of us. The All Blacks and Kiwi domestic sides will continue to be a force (pardon the pun) like they've always been, but commercially if the comp implodes how does that benefit them?

I think what's going to happen if the parties can't agree is a continuation of what we have with some fiddling around the edges and the slow death to follow.


All the "just walk away" talk I've heard has been from west of the ditch & I've yet to see any "what comes next" that doesn't assume the Wobs retain their place in TRC. Fairly presumptuous IMO.

EDIT: I'd count myself among the more if not pro-Aussie then at least not anti-Aussie rugby fans you'll find on any Rugby website anywhere & even I'm getting to the "you wanna go? Then just go" stage with you guys.
 
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