Where to for Super Rugby?

[hoggy]

I agree, but by geez if you think losing the people you got supporting the comps now to get in more non rugby people I suspect you will have more of a problem, they don't watch when teams lose, you lose in long run!

Its a good point 54, but why then should we align ourselves in a set-up that pretty much guarantees us 2nd place.

 

[Dan54]

Its a good point 54, but why then should we align ourselves in a set-up that pretty much guarantees us 2nd place.

No you strive to win first place, as Twiggy said on Breakdown the other night when asked where he wanted to see the Force in 10 years? He said he wanted them top of the tree and beating all the NZ teams! never never accept that you need to be 2nd, Australia's rugby teams are quite capable of winning super rugby if things are done right, they have done it before, but not by taking the easy way!

 

[hoggy]

We're gonna have to dis-agree then because I would argue then we have been taking the easy way for the last 20 years. Super Rugby was always the easy way.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Article in Sunday telegraph really summed up the mood of how NZRU approach to creating their proposed competition really backfired and put oz rugby community and public’s nose out of joint.

I think they may come to regret how they have handled this in time as their perceived arrogance and dismissive nature of oz rugby in how this has been handled is making it more likely Australia will pursue alternative options then consider a trans tasman competition with nz (which btw is been portrayed as nz domestic competition like nrl with the warriors - then trans Tasman competition).

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I agree, but by geez if you think losing the people you got supporting the comps now to get in more non rugby people I suspect you will have more of a problem, they don't watch when teams lose, you lose in long run! Anyway lets agree to disagree, you want a lesser comp and hopefully more people will switch too from other sports and I think like any sports I enjoy watching the best standard I can.

Dan

Let’s say Japan was NZ’s nearest neighbour. Do you think Japan would be wise to forgo its own 16 team planned domestic competition and go to maybe 1 or 2 pro teams that could compete with in what is largely a nz domestic competition. Which option would be better for the growth of the game in Japan. If you answer that you might finally see why competing in a closed borders competition with nz with less then the 5 oz teams in super rugby AU is definitely not in our long term interests.

I think your dreaming Dan If you think RA going to sign up to this as they have learnt cutting the force and shrinking our way to greatness was not the answer. The problem also was not that oz super rugby teams were not financially viable but rather they participated in a poorly designed super rugby competition that did not generate local interest that continued to make them unviable. NZ’s super rugby proposal is just offering more of the same so no thanks is what I suspect RA will say and be generally supported by most oz rugby fans.

 

[ForceFan]

Andrew Forrest's clear focus has been to maintain a professional rugby team in WA.
He has done that successfully for the past 3 years.
He appears committed to maintaining his support.
In the same way he appears committed to developing the game in WA from the grassroots.
By doing so a pathway to the professional game has been maintained even as a staging post for players such as Isaak Fines, Andrew Deegan, Carlos Tizzano, Michael McDonald Harry Lloyd, the Orr brothers etc.
I have no issue with these players seeking opportunities elsewhere.

The 2020 rugby season has been a cluster due to CV19.
There is no guarantee that 2021 will be much different as there is no surety that we will develop a vaccine or that CV19 will go away.
SRAu has been a good opportunity for the WF as the team could keep playing.
So far they have only played 3 games in 2020.
BUT SRAu has only been possible due the the last year of the current Foxtel broadcast deal.
There is no guarantee that the Wallabies will be even playing test rugby in 2020.
So what $$s maintain the professional game in Oz after SRAu in 2020?

No broadcast deal for Oz rugby in 2021 means a likely return to a semi-pro local competition for the Oz teams.
2021 should be a case of short term survival for our professional players - to keep as many as possible in Oz. - to maintain a local pathway for developing players. If it means only 2 or 3 team playing in a TT competition then so be it.

I'd be happy IF the Western Force becomes one of the Oz teams, or maybe the only Oz team, playing in NZ as I see little chance of rejigging GRR in 2021.
For the WF this has to be preferred to continuing in a non-viable SRAu competition with no broadcast income.

 

[Rebels3]

NZ isnt the ones that have to feel the fall out of political infighting between all parties if a team is chopped. It would taint another group of board members going forward (rightly or wrongly) and prevent the game truly going ahead in a unified manner.

 

[rugboy]

There is a lot of posturing going on in public from both sides. Both have stated they want the involvement of the other side. NZ have stated that the current competition is not sustainable long term. Their internal report cited a 8 team model as the preferred option, given the need for Oz involvement they have immediately announced a 8-10 team comp. The 10 more than likely is the olive branch to entice AU, although they say they can put in expressions of interest. Mclennan noted broadcaster preference for a TT. AU throw out also they are prepared to go alone domestically. With the back and forward I can see that the more than likely scenario is that the posturing has seen both sides come out looking strong that they have done their due diligence, either through internal reports or preparations to run domestic models with the ultimate outcome being that they both do the honourable thing for SH rugby and each other and bend enough to make it work. Win win for all.

 

[molman]

There is no guarantee that the Wallabies will be even playing test rugby in 2020. So what $$s maintain the professional game in Oz after SRAu in 2020?

If the Wallabies don't play, the All Blacks don't play. Do you think NZ's cost base is such that no All Black games is hugely viable. Will they get creative with their North / South games etc.. sure.. but don't think for a second that NZR doesn't need some International Rugby as well.

I have no doubt there will be some Wallaby games somewhere, even if they are all in NZ.

 

[dru]

The problem with trying to continue a friendly barter is that we are time barred - which NZRU are well aware. Another pressure.

Let's talk when you are willing to get past posture to real conversation. 2021 for Aus to be domestic.

 

[Dan54]

Dan

Let’s say Japan was NZ’s nearest neighbour. Do you think Japan would be wise to forgo its own 16 team planned domestic competition and go to maybe 1 or 2 pro teams that could compete with in what is largely a nz domestic competition. Which option would be better for the growth of the game in Japan. If you answer that you might finally see why competing in a closed borders competition with nz with less then the 5 oz teams in super rugby AU is definitely not in our long term interests.

I think your dreaming Dan If you think RA going to sign up to this as they have learnt cutting the force and shrinking our way to greatness was not the answer. The problem also was not that oz super rugby teams were not financially viable but rather they participated in a poorly designed super rugby competition that did not generate local interest that continued to make them unviable. NZ’s super rugby proposal is just offering more of the same so no thanks is what I suspect RA will say and be generally supported by most oz rugby fans.

Ok, well Aus seem to have learnt that cutting teams don't work, neither did increasing teams, so we will just wait and see what happens, we probably never going to agree completely, and I pretty sure that RA or NZR aren't going to read these posts so probably just time to let it play out! Anyway I got rugby to watch!

 

[dru]

Ok, well Aus seem to have learnt that cutting teams don't work, neither did increasing teams, so we will just wait and see what happens, we probably never going to agree completely, and I pretty sure that RA or NZR aren't going to read these posts so probably just time to let it play out! Anyway I got rugby to watch!

Constantly repeating the same thing doesn't make it any more correct the first time. Increasing teams is not in itself the goal - more local content is what is required. What failed was the idiot conference system and the inherent weaknesses of the Super system.

 

[molman]

Ok, well Aus seem to have learnt that cutting teams don't work, neither did increasing teams, so we will just wait and see what happens, we probably never going to agree completely, and I pretty sure that RA or NZR aren't going to read these posts so probably just time to let it play out! Anyway I got rugby to watch!

Truely where this discussion is at.

For my part, I'm enjoying the Super Rugby AU games immensely and I'm likewise enjoying the Super Rugby NZ game as well.. add in the rebooted ShuteShield and I'm a happy camper.

 

[rugboy]

The problem with trying to continue a friendly barter is that we are time barred - which NZRU are well aware. Another pressure.

Let's talk when you are willing to get past posture to real conversation. 2021 for Aus to be domestic.

As I said NZ Internal review stated that an 8 team comp in ideal and current comp is unsustainable. Even with a PI team they have fallen short of the recommendation and if it fails the whole board will take the fall. So the time constraints on RA are time constraints on NZ too. They need us as much as we need them. They have stated they want it sorted by the end of next month RA have said they want the model locked in by locked the end of August, eerily similar timeline.

 

[Dan54]

Dan

Let’s say Japan was NZ’s nearest neighbour. Do you think Japan would be wise to forgo its own 16 team planned domestic competition and go to maybe 1 or 2 pro teams that could compete with in what is largely a nz domestic competition.

just before I drop out os dicussion, because as I said we all basically want for rugby to grow in Aus, just think it will happen through different ways. As we not going to move NZ next to Japan, I would ask you to ask almost anyone in NZ, did putting the Warriors in Australia's domestic League comp do good or bad for the game in NZ, I know the answer as they had them playing the best players!

 

[Derpus]

just before I drop out os dicussion, because as I said we all basically want for rugby to grow in Aus, just think it will happen through different ways. As we not going to move NZ next to Japan, I would ask you to ask almost anyone in NZ, did putting the Warriors in Australia's domestic League comp do good or bad for the game in NZ, I know the answer as they had them playing the best players!

Cant have done that much considering its far and away the second league and you only have a professional team in one city.

 

[Dan54]

Cant have done that much considering its far and away the second league and you only have a professional team in one city.

And you think rugby is going to be tops in Aus? And I repeat ask any kiwi if League has become more popular or not since they have had only 1 team in someone else's domestic comp!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And you think rugby is going to be tops in Aus? And I repeat ask any kiwi if League has become more popular or not since they have had only 1 team in someone else's domestic comp!

League outside of Australia not a very big global sport - union is - which there lies the opportunity and over time (decades) with right structures for growth with the strength of the world game union could make a dent on league and Afl. Top code no - but bigger market share for sure there is opportunity because of strength of world game and where we were at primed for growth in 2003 b4 poor decisions made.

Poor comparison comparing warriors and league as not a strong global game imho, and nz as small market and big union footprint made for less options (ie unlike in Australia where could for union have separate pro domestic competition as A-league proved)

My views well known on this subject so time to just sit back and see what unfolds over next little while before making any further comments.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

thread chundering along toward the millenia of posts now. Good topic to fuel the conflict turbines.

NZ: "You useless dickheads and your 3rd-in-line code lost 96.8% of the time you played us in soup rugby, your fans dont want to see that shit ergo you havent even got a broadcasting deal beyond next bloody month"
Aus: "So what you arrogant wankers, it's not YOUR competition."
NZ: "Is too"
Aus: "Is not"
NZ: "Too"
Aus: "Not"
NZ: "You think any Aus broadcaster's gonna shell out to see the 5 aus teams continue getting reamed up the bumcrack every weekend?"
Aus: "We're going to turn a magical corner in forrrrrrrm you vowelless pricks. Besides, your stupid little tinpot economy needs the $$ from our big fucken economy you preternaturally-skilled, corrosively-handsome little bastards"

 

[KOB1987]

Sound like RA are going to stick to their guns with 5 teams in any TT comp. Force are secure financially, Qld & NSW are untouchable, Vic govt invests heavily in rugby and would play a major role in RWC2027, leaving only the Brumbies which could be cut, which is the team most wanted by NZ. Outside equity and a solid broadcast deal to be the main financial drivers, and to allay the player depth concerns, up to 3 imports per franchise to be allowed.

From the Aus this morning.​