Where to for Super Rugby?

[The Honey Badger]

Well then fuck it. Work with Forrest and move en mass across to GRR. I'm over waiting with bated breathe as to what NZ thinks or wants. Especially as it only ever is to suit them. Time we suited ourselves.

Best post over the last 800 pages

 

[qwerty51]

Gotta laugh at the people suggesting NZ aren't warming to a TT. As if they have other options currently.

 

[ForceFan]

For the want of repeating myself - it's becoming obvious that the way forward is (in no particular order):

Lower the sights, aim for success, focus on timezone, reduce the amount/cost of travel, don't try and fix everybody's problems, slow and steady growth from the grass roots, seek more corporate sponsorship, competition managed by professionals not amateurs, ensure that media coverage is readily accessible and affordable (to as many people as possible).

 

[half]

Cough cough cough, puts on steel helmet for protection.

Question without notice to the TT guys, the twiggy guys, the Australian National Domestic competition folk.

My question is why are you so certain about what will happen if what you say is put in place.

Consider the “”” Nobody Really Cares Competition”” put in by Pulver & Flower. Both established within six months and neither despite all the fanfare and promises went within light years of achieving their potential and promise.

I have always maintained we needed between 4 & 5 years to establish a sustainable competition, with broadcasters and sponsors. My thoughts have not changed.

Let me ask, a few questions, has RA produced a flexible discussion paper inviting various stakeholder groups to consider???? Has RA developed a process of fan engagement to build upon???? Has RA developed a broad range of rugby groups i.e official’s refs, lines people etc/ coaches / players / fan groups / key sponsors ????? has RA invited key stakeholder people to discuss various opinions i.e. Papworth, Twiggy, etc ?????

My guess is they have not.

So, consider this, Sydney run its Shute Shield, Brisbane similar, Newcastle / Central Coast, ACT and so on, with a kinda champion of champion series at the end. Use this time to listen develop listen some more. Then develop over two to three years a sustainable model.

Then implement the model.

 

[ForceFan]

Well then fuck it. Work with Forrest and move en mass across to GRR. I'm over waiting with bated breathe as to what NZ thinks or wants. Especially as it only ever is to suit them. Time we suited ourselves.

GRR already has an Australian representative team the owner of which is contributing to the cost of the competition.
Growth was to come after consolidation of the initial 6 team season.
Difficult to see a GRR competition in 2021 due to:

• ongoing CV19 issues.
• instability in China and Hong Kong.
• likelihood that no International flights into WA until mid-2021 (at the earliest). (Maybe flights from NZ???)

Likely that 2021 will have many of the uncertainties of 2020.
Perhaps it will be another year of Super Rugby Au??

 

[Adam84]

I don't think this is true. I don't think the Jaguares players are very highly paid for example. They'll no longer have a high quality competition to play in that aligns with the Rugby Championship season, so perhaps there is an opportunity to partner with the UAR and have half of those guys or more in Australian squads. There's also a few guys in the Fiji Drua every year who are undoubtedly of Super Rugby standard that don't get professional opportunities (remember the Reds wanted to sign their fly half a couple of years ago before Cheika intervened to stop it). These players are not expensive. The fact you see some Super Rugby quality players signing for MLR teams is a sign that there's not an unlimited number of highly paid squad spots for non-Europeans in Europe, or non-Japanese in Japan.

There's also an attractiveness to living and playing in Australia for a couple of years that I think would appeal to plenty of players in Europe even if it means less money.

Argentinian players only accept lesser salaries when playing in Argentina, like Aussies, Kiwis and Saffas who sacrifice larger overseas contracts to play at home. Once players decided to leave their home country, you are now competing against European and Japanese clubs, not the salary which they are earning in their home country.

Yes i agree there are a handful of Fijian players who could be approached and brought across, but with the NRC and Fijian Drua concept now dead that talent identification pathway is also dead. I think the European players willing to play in Aus is far and few between when you consider they will be on minimal wage.

I think people need to accept the reality that the broadcast rights value are going to be slashed, the money on offer for players is going to be drastically less. The most cost effective way to fill out these squads in line with the new budgets will be through promoting club players, not recruiting foreigners. However, there is an absolute limitation to the depth of club playres

 

[KOB1987]

I think for next year it just makes sense for both RA and NZR just to do the 5 x 5 TT thing, see how it goes and then tinker with it from there. There are very few options in the current environment that are easy to implement, Broadcasters get a look at the product and the viewership and can then value it. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, but there’s very little to lose and it could be a resounding success and provide a blueprint for the future.

 

[Omar Comin']

Argentinian players only accept lesser salaries when playing in Argentina, like Aussies, Kiwis and Saffas who sacrifice larger overseas contracts to play at home. Once players decided to leave their home country, you are now competing against European and Japanese clubs, not the salary which they are earning in their home country.

Yes i agree there are a handful of Fijian players who could be approached and brought across, but with the NRC and Fijian Drua concept now dead that talent identification pathway is also dead. I think the European players willing to play in Aus is far and few between when you consider they will be on minimal wage.

But there's not that many spots available for Argentinians in the top European leagues. They're non Kolpak. Argentina has as many registered rugby players as Australia does yet many less professional players. There just isn't enough opportunities for them. Given the Australian season is shorter and aligns with the RC I think there's a natural fit there. We could sign 5-10 of their best under 20's every year cheaply.

And the Fijian Drua has really just become the Fijian Latui in GRR so I don't think that pathway is gone. If we end up going with our own competition I'd rather that team just play in it as a Fijian side. But if we are in a TT tournament we should sign the cream of that squad and work with the Fijian union to maintain some pathway.

As for the European players, there would be those attracted to the weather, lifestyle, new experiences, and much shorter season on offer in Australia. We've seen guys like The Beast and Bastareaud play in the US for example, presumably on a lot less than they could have made in Europe.

 

[hoggy]

I think for next year it just makes sense for both RA and NZR just to do the 5 x 5 TT thing, see how it goes and then tinker with it from there. There are very few options in the current environment that are easy to implement, Broadcasters get a look at the product and the viewership and can then value it. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, but there’s very little to lose and it could be a resounding success and provide a blueprint for the future.

Possibly the only real option, but you then have to be careful like Super rugby it quickly becomes entrenched not because it is the best option moving forward, but the self interest of those involved.

 

[KOB1987]

That’s true but it’s impossible to come up with a format that extends beyond the pacific at this stage so they may as well just run with that for 2021, see how it goes, and take it from there.

 

[zer0]

NZR may be trying to curb its reliance on broadcasting deals by growing its sponsorship revenue, but I'd imagine that running purely with SRA will be too small for that strategy. I guess they could add another franchise or two -- maybe even three at the absolute most -- but that's going to strain the playing and financial resources, and seems a bit pointless when you can add in n number of ready-made Australian teams.

Where's my f*cken big wig executive salary? I can run this sh*t show from a run down hole in Onehunga.

"Certainly from a New Zealand perspective, we know what the public want ..... and we’ve known for a long time what the public want, they want the derbies."

Adding New Zealand teams would create an extra layer of excitement for supporters but would undoubtedly be a complex process. However, one thing seems clear: a repeat of the five-team Super Rugby Aotearoa format in 2021 is highly unlikely. "One of the issues you get into if you just extend out New Zealand teams is the question of high performance. High performance has meant that we’ve been able to use the current five [franchises] to field a pretty decent All Black team over the years with very few hiccups. The risk you are running if you go down that line is that a watering down of high performance. It’s a balancing act, but what you are questioning is exactly the work we are doing right now for 2021 and beyond."

"Certainly the way [Super Rugby Aotearoa] has been embraced has been terrific. The derbies are always the ones that have attracted the best crowds and the best television, everything. The challenge is that it’s pretty hard to run a sustainable competition with five teams. It worked perfectly this year but going longer-term, it’s not really a sustainable model. We’ve got an open mind, but we’ve got to remember what our fans want and also make sure it’s viable."

NZ Rugby's door subsequently remains open to an international partner such as Australia, particularly as a trans-Tasman competition would still offer New Zealand fans a healthy share of derbies without diluting the Crusaders, Chiefs, Highlanders, Blues or Hurricanes.

However, new RA chairman Hamish McLennan has been vocal in his support of a trans-Tasman competition, and said that model would bring broadcasters to the table across the ditch. Impey offered some encouragement to his counterpart. "We’re open to it all," Impey said. "We’ve got a completely open mind as we plan through. We’re open to working with Rugby Australia."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-open-to-more-kiwi-super-rugby-teams-for-2021

 

[Wilson]

That’s true but it’s impossible to come up with a format that extends beyond the pacific at this stage so they may as well just run with that for 2021, see how it goes, and take it from there.

I think this is the right answer, and the way they'll go, but there is an issue with trying to handle player contracting on what would be a singe year broadcast deal. If they can work out a way to get through that year intact it does open up an opportunity to really benefit on the 2022 and onward broadcast deal, particularly if the home world cup has firmed up.

 

[ForceFan]

That’s true but it’s impossible to come up with a format that extends beyond the pacific at this stage so they may as well just run with that for 2021, see how it goes, and take it from there.

No competition is going to extend to the Pacific if there is even a trace of ongoing CV19 issues.
Unless teams such Fiji, Samoa and Tonga base themselves in NZ or Oz. At whose cost?
That's the challenge GRR faces in 2021.

 

[dru]

No competition is going to extend to the Pacific if there is even a trace of ongoing CV19 issues.
Unless teams such Fiji, Samoa and Tonga base themselves in NZ or Oz. At whose cost?
That's the challenge GRR faces in 2021.

I had thought Fiji was pretty much clear of. Covid 19. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=fiji+coronavirus&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari

 

[KOB1987]

No competition is going to extend to the Pacific if there is even a trace of ongoing CV19 issues.
Unless teams such Fiji, Samoa and Tonga base themselves in NZ or Oz. At whose cost?
That's the challenge GRR faces in 2021.

Agreed for now, but I was inferring that's the maximum foreseeable limits for 2021

 

[Wilson]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-open-to-more-kiwi-super-rugby-teams-for-2021

Also worth noting the poll there has readers preferring the Trans-Tasman option over either New Zealand only offering. Hardly scientific but does suggest there's broader support for it in NZ.

 

[Slim 293]

Cough cough cough.........

So, consider this, Sydney run its Shute Shield, Brisbane similar, Newcastle / Central Coast, ACT and so on, with a kinda champion of champion series at the end. Use this time to listen develop listen some more. Then develop over two to three years a sustainable model.

Then implement the model.

I don’t like the sound of that cough, and you seem to be delirious with fever.........

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Also worth noting the poll there has readers preferring the Trans-Tasman option over either New Zealand only offering. Hardly scientific but does suggest there's broader support for it in NZ.

I'm surprised that it's only a bare majority in favour of TT & can only assume that the other 48% haven't thought about the long-term economics of SRA.

 

[Derpus]

Cough cough cough, puts on steel helmet for protection.

Question without notice to the TT guys, the twiggy guys, the Australian National Domestic competition folk.

My question is why are you so certain about what will happen if what you say is put in place.

Consider the “”” Nobody Really Cares Competition”” put in by Pulver & Flower. Both established within six months and neither despite all the fanfare and promises went within light years of achieving their potential and promise.

I have always maintained we needed between 4 & 5 years to establish a sustainable competition, with broadcasters and sponsors. My thoughts have not changed.

Let me ask, a few questions, has RA produced a flexible discussion paper inviting various stakeholder groups to consider???? Has RA developed a process of fan engagement to build upon???? Has RA developed a broad range of rugby groups i.e official’s refs, lines people etc/ coaches / players / fan groups / key sponsors ????? has RA invited key stakeholder people to discuss various opinions i.e. Papworth, Twiggy, etc ?????

My guess is they have not.

So, consider this, Sydney run its Shute Shield, Brisbane similar, Newcastle / Central Coast, ACT and so on, with a kinda champion of champion series at the end. Use this time to listen develop listen some more. Then develop over two to three years a sustainable model.

Then implement the model.

It's an option - but i think if we fall back into amateurism it'll be decades before we get back out of it.

It's not palatable from my personal perspective either. I occasionally go watch Norths primarily to have a few beers in the sun, but that's it. If it was the only rugby available i'd probably just stop watching rugby.

 

[Derpus]

Where's my f*cken big wig executive salary? I can run this sh*t show from a run down hole in Onehunga.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-open-to-more-kiwi-super-rugby-teams-for-2021

TT is the no-brainer.

The only reason it won't happen, i reckon, is if Australia can't get its act together. There's still a good chance we've slipped into the black-hole's gravity well financially.