Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Are we expecting... intelligence? Competence? Forethought? from anyone involved in the game in australia?
Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
You missed perhaps the most truthful bit of all, quoting Cheika:
This has been the fatal, ill-considered driver - repeatedly prioritising $ income and thus 'quantity of teams to sell in TV hours' over: quality of rugby played, the real depth or otherwise of adequate player talent to match the quantity of funded teams, fan attractiveness, system-wide skills development, and adequacy of coaching depth to match the expansion of the number of Super teams, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Origin_series
For anyone interested in the history.
Interestingly, rugby league sticks with its international calender despite not having the interest that union and soccer have with theres.
From a rugby league perspective, I think you keep sticking with the international calender, because whilst it may never be as big as competitors it adds to the rugby league experience.
I think just like rugby league has to ignore what the AFL or anyone else is doing and focus on itself to grow and survive, so does rugby union. Forget about crowd comparisons tv ratings comparison and bring people a product they enjoy.
I have always thought the schute shield should have been expanded to include BRU clubs and go from there sort of like how nswrl and vfl went about things, but maybe its too late for that, but sydn uni eastwood, gordon, randwick, I would think these brands have value but maybe not with Private school take over of union.
For anyone interested in the history.
Interestingly, rugby league sticks with its international calender despite not having the interest that union and soccer have with theres.
From a rugby league perspective, I think you keep sticking with the international calender, because whilst it may never be as big as competitors it adds to the rugby league experience.
I think just like rugby league has to ignore what the AFL or anyone else is doing and focus on itself to grow and survive, so does rugby union. Forget about crowd comparisons tv ratings comparison and bring people a product they enjoy.
I have always thought the schute shield should have been expanded to include BRU clubs and go from there sort of like how nswrl and vfl went about things, but maybe its too late for that, but sydn uni eastwood, gordon, randwick, I would think these brands have value but maybe not with Private school take over of union.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Related to this is that if a sport insists on an FTA component in a broadcast deal then the value of those rights diminish for the Pay TV broadcaster. RA were never willing to insist on this because they were fully aware of the short-term economic implications. A couple of weeks ago I posted excerpts from a Parliamentary enquiry on sports broadcasting and the anti-siphoning list fro 2006 from memory. It was revealing to see that sports such as rugby, soccer and basketball didn't want any additions to the anti-siphoning list as it would affect their earning capacity.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Maybe even in Western Sydney? Cambelltown? Use the current problem as an opportunity.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm not sticking the boot into Castle but for those who said she was faultless:
She made the decision to re-sign with SANZAAR.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Baabaas
1
2
3
4 Rodda
5 Hockings
6 Ben Hyne
7
8 Schatz
9
10 Quade
11 Dargaville
12
13
14 Ben Lucas
15 Isaac Lucas
Coach: Scott Johnson
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
And look, maybe that is her fault.
But where else were we going to score millions a year for a sport with a rubbish public profile and performance metrics crashlanding in Botany Bay?
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Did she make the decision, or did she just carry out the wishes of the board?
And I don't think that she was faultless, nor do I think she was as bad as some people (not necessarily you) think.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Well shock, a CEO has to make tough calls and is judged on them with their job all the time. Even if they thought it was the right one at the time. I'm just saying she had to live and die by the deal with SANZAAR.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
100%. And I said some time ago here - to deal with the rapidly unfolding SANZAAR game model train wreck that surely would lead Aust rugby to disaster, was in fact the most important, the most compelling, of the challenges she was required to face in early 2018 as the incoming new RA CEO. Nothing else as a major priority for competent RA leadership was of this strategic significance to the code's survival and viability at that juncture.
She, the RA board, her executive team and the mooted '$1m pa media consultants' (laugh or cry) proceeded to totally fluff it.
In late 2019 they signed on to an only marginally amended version of the SANZAAR Super Rugby historical model and yet, worse, with new economic and fan problems attached to it, ie, less home games (at least every second year wasn't it?) for each Aust local RU.
Thus, with that act of weak and non-insightful leadership, the die was recklessly cast and it is only the COVID crisis that has, in this respect anyway, potentially saved Aust rugby from the final lurch into total fan disillusionment and broader, but related, business disasters.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Whatever happens by whoever needs time.
It’s fascinating reading this thread over say the last three months when the penny finally dropped a National Domestic Competition was by light years the best way to go.
Unlike NZ & SA we don’t have a ready made local domestic competition that needs tarting up to make it reasonable. Nor do we have the fan numbers that SA enjoy, nor do we have the NZ experience where its rugby first daylight second and moonlight third.
Moreover, years of being hidden away on Fox, with little attention to growing the playing base has left us with the oldest supporter age group, falling player numbers leaving rugby in Australia exposed like we have never been before in our history.
As someone who called out Super Rugby in the late 90’s, yes that early, screamed after the 2010 FIFA world cup in SA things will change in SA, begging for years to go to a fully privately own league akin to USA models.
What I SCREAM & YELL now is this is not the time to apply another Pulver top down competition or Gary Flowers before him and his competition. We need to come together and develop a rugby conceptual framework and then within that framework develop a product with the broad support of all stakeholders.
WE need time. Listen lets take a couple of years maybe three years to do it. Lets go back to club rugby and get everyone together and find a way forward.
I fear egos and power plays will get in the way. The only way to achieve lasting and sustainable change is to change the governance models that we have and from there unite the stakeholders behind a common cause.
IT WILL TAKE TIME, so lets accept that fact.
It’s fascinating reading this thread over say the last three months when the penny finally dropped a National Domestic Competition was by light years the best way to go.
Unlike NZ & SA we don’t have a ready made local domestic competition that needs tarting up to make it reasonable. Nor do we have the fan numbers that SA enjoy, nor do we have the NZ experience where its rugby first daylight second and moonlight third.
Moreover, years of being hidden away on Fox, with little attention to growing the playing base has left us with the oldest supporter age group, falling player numbers leaving rugby in Australia exposed like we have never been before in our history.
As someone who called out Super Rugby in the late 90’s, yes that early, screamed after the 2010 FIFA world cup in SA things will change in SA, begging for years to go to a fully privately own league akin to USA models.
What I SCREAM & YELL now is this is not the time to apply another Pulver top down competition or Gary Flowers before him and his competition. We need to come together and develop a rugby conceptual framework and then within that framework develop a product with the broad support of all stakeholders.
WE need time. Listen lets take a couple of years maybe three years to do it. Lets go back to club rugby and get everyone together and find a way forward.
I fear egos and power plays will get in the way. The only way to achieve lasting and sustainable change is to change the governance models that we have and from there unite the stakeholders behind a common cause.
IT WILL TAKE TIME, so lets accept that fact.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Whatever the final model looks like, people need to accept what works in the Australian context. I suspect that there are still more than a few out there who in their heart of hearts really want to see Super Rugby continue.
What is apparent for anyone who even casually follows other sports who have a national competition is that almost universally teams and team names represent cities/town/suburbs/groups of suburbs/regions. This provides the degree of parochialism necessary to sustain supporters over the long term, not just when the team is winning. The teams are also readily identifiable for sponsors and broadcasters. The use of state of territory identification is left to state representative teams.
NRL
Manly-Warringah, Cronulla-Sutherland, St George-Illawarra, Newcastle, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, South Sydney, Parramatta, Canterbury-Bankstown, Penrith, North Queensland, Wests and the Warriors (NZ).
AFL
Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda, Geelong, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide, Adelaide, Sydney, Greater Western Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, West Coast
FFA
Sydney FC, Melbourne FC, Melbourne V, Western Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne, Western United (Melbourne), Adelaide, Newcastle, Central Coast and Wellington (NZ)
NBL
Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns, Illawarra, Melbourne, Perth, South East Melbourne, Adelaide and the Breakers (NZ)
Big Bash
Sydney 6s, Sydney Thunder, Melbourne Renegades, Melbourne Stars, Hobart Hurricanes, Brisbane Heat, Perth Scorchers, Adelaide Strikers
Netball
Adelaide Thunderbirds, Collingwood, Giants (Greater Western Sydney), Melbourne Vixens, Sydney Swifts, West Coast Fever, Sunshine Coast Lightning and Qld Firebirds
Aust Water Polo League
Sydney Uni, Balmain, Drummoyne, Wests, Cronulla, Brisbane Barracudas, (Brisbane Mermaids for women), Uni of WA, Fremantle, Adelaide, Fremantle, Barbarians (playing out of Victoria) and Qld Breakers (River City club have used this to differentiate from the Brisbane team)
What is apparent for anyone who even casually follows other sports who have a national competition is that almost universally teams and team names represent cities/town/suburbs/groups of suburbs/regions. This provides the degree of parochialism necessary to sustain supporters over the long term, not just when the team is winning. The teams are also readily identifiable for sponsors and broadcasters. The use of state of territory identification is left to state representative teams.
NRL
Manly-Warringah, Cronulla-Sutherland, St George-Illawarra, Newcastle, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, South Sydney, Parramatta, Canterbury-Bankstown, Penrith, North Queensland, Wests and the Warriors (NZ).
AFL
Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda, Geelong, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide, Adelaide, Sydney, Greater Western Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, West Coast
FFA
Sydney FC, Melbourne FC, Melbourne V, Western Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne, Western United (Melbourne), Adelaide, Newcastle, Central Coast and Wellington (NZ)
NBL
Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns, Illawarra, Melbourne, Perth, South East Melbourne, Adelaide and the Breakers (NZ)
Big Bash
Sydney 6s, Sydney Thunder, Melbourne Renegades, Melbourne Stars, Hobart Hurricanes, Brisbane Heat, Perth Scorchers, Adelaide Strikers
Netball
Adelaide Thunderbirds, Collingwood, Giants (Greater Western Sydney), Melbourne Vixens, Sydney Swifts, West Coast Fever, Sunshine Coast Lightning and Qld Firebirds
Aust Water Polo League
Sydney Uni, Balmain, Drummoyne, Wests, Cronulla, Brisbane Barracudas, (Brisbane Mermaids for women), Uni of WA, Fremantle, Adelaide, Fremantle, Barbarians (playing out of Victoria) and Qld Breakers (River City club have used this to differentiate from the Brisbane team)
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Reg not like lot of other options - would rather this if means get more games
mst
Peter Johnson (47)
Club Rugby!
NRC is no good as its a perfect product for the market and could be really good for the game but nobody has enough political capital in to lever it for personal gain so it's a lame duck.
Drew
Bob Davidson (42)
Barbarians could only work if the existing franchises share the wealth. If a wallaby is not in the starting 15 or a franchise has a backlog of talent in certain positions they could join this team.Probably won’t happen as injury replacements,game day rotations and self interest would probably stop the Existing teams from doing so. Players like Mack Mason would be able to show over a duration of time rather than being warehoused and bagged/lauded when they Finally get a chance, then players Who have fallen gone down the pecking order like Tom Robertson they can show what they’re capable of. Plenty of holes in it, so don’t shoot me, it seems that’s the only way a barbarian team could work to me.
A Barbarians team is bloody expensive. Think the Melbourne team from the 2007. They had to relocate everyone for the season and that is effectively what broke that tournament.
A Barbarian team based in Sydney is still going to have to recruit at least half it's team from interstate, house them, fly them etc. The cost of that is ridiculous.
A Barbarian team based in Sydney is still going to have to recruit at least half it's team from interstate, house them, fly them etc. The cost of that is ridiculous.
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