Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

That article summarises why NZ rugby is successful and Australian rugby isn't. NZ see clubs appreciate the vital role of clubs in the development of professional players. In Australia the administrators see clubs as an annoyance left over from the amateur days.

I doubt for example, you'd ever see a senior NZRU official rip funding away from clubs because they'd just piss it up against the wall.

Quick, you make an error to presume that the indignant SRU and it's relationship with NSWRU and RA is "Australia".

To start with, QRU has its issues with Premier, but it isn't this. And of course there is a lot more to rugby in Australia and NSW and Q.

You have a distinctly NSW disease there.

 

[Highlander35]

They had a seconds squad in the comp didn’t they? Don’t think any of our franchises had that luxury!

Isn't it Bay of Plenty who're in the partnership with China? Hence why Shug Blake, the Kilted Kiwi, is their captain?

 

[Quick Hands]

Quick, you make an error to presume that the indignant SRU and it's relationship with NSWRU and RA is "Australia".

To start with, QRU has its issues with Premier, but it isn't this. And of course there is a lot more to rugby in Australia and NSW and Q.

You have a distinctly NSW disease there.

Well, I've lived my whole life in Sydney so naturally I have a greater perspective on what happens in Sydney and NSW.

There's certainly a lot more to rugby in Australia than Sydney or NSW or Qld. But, I see what the RA and NSWRU attitude is to clubs (all clubs not just the SS ones) and I simply cannot imagine the NZRU following a similar policy the people there just wouldn't let it happen.

I'd also note that the area of Australia in which club, school and junior rugby was expanding the most was Western Australia and yet this was the province which RA decided to cut. I think we both thought at the time that this was odd.

My position is that RA should be providing support to club competitions everywhere in the country to the extent that it can. That doesn't necessarily mean direct financial support either, it could be a range or resources or support. Unlike some rugby countries, rugby isn't evenly spread across Australia so it stands to reason that a greater quantum of most things are going to go to the areas where there are the most clubs and players.

Without trying to be in any way parochial, my view is that no professional or even semi-professional sport can succeed in Australia unless it has a significant presence in either Sydney or Melbourne. They're the two biggest cities, with the most people, infrastructure and access to sponsors. Whether some people like it or not, in Australian rugby it's Sydney and the game can't succeed elsewhere in Australia without a significant presence in Sydney. That's not to downgrade any clubs or competitions going on elsewhere - we need all of them as well. The more of them which are successful, the better for everyone including Sydney. It's why I've only suggested two teams in Sydney for a domestic professional league and tried to locate teams as far as possible right across the country - including a Fijian team playing out of Townsville, a Tongan team playing out of Campbelltown etc.

If we look at France for example, we see a combination of these factors at play - most of the clubs and players in France are located in the south-west quarter of the country so most of the money and resource goes to that area. But the French also realised that they needed a presence in Paris because it's the biggest city with the most access to big companies, sponsors etc so they have always ensured a Top 14 club was in Paris even when that team struggled years ago. It's why they got Racing back into Top 14 so there are now two Paris teams in their top league.

 

[KOB1987]

Isn't it Bay of Plenty who're in the partnership with China? Hence why Shug Blake, the Kilted Kiwi, is their captain?

That’s probably right but I’m pretty sure the Crusaders had some involvement in the first edition, though I’m not sure to what extent, and I distinctly remember seeing the team announcement at some stage. I can’t find any reference to it but that said haven’t had much of a look, except for this Wiki extract https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Rapid_Rugby

Someone who follows it closer than me might be able to shed some light.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Isn't it Bay of Plenty who're in the partnership with China? Hence why Shug Blake, the Kilted Kiwi, is their captain?

Yes.

 

[Dan54]

What do you make of this...

https://rugbynews.net.au/crusaders-...he-short-and-long-term-future-of-super-rugby/

Bloody interesting read, see what I mean a lot goes on that we are unaware of, and this is what I like, an interview and not just an opinion piece by a writer, but thoughts from people on the 'coalface' so to speak!!

 

[Dan54]

Why not a comp with the existing nine super teams? 16 home and away rounds plus finals.

If the Kiwis win the comp 80% of the time then it wouldn't be any different to now. If each Aussie team could hire a couple of gun foreigners (and it was financially viable to do so) it would even the competition out enough.

I actually like that, a 9 team comp would work well for me, even a 1 round comp, ( though I suspect TV would want more), but the idea is good. See I quite like a quick comp of 10-12 weeks, and allow for a little more in alternative comps ie; NZ a North/South or something, and Aus could do something too!!

Don't jump down my throat fellas just a random thought!!

 

[Dan54]

Interesting that Colin Mansbridge (Crusaders' CEO) says that they have been in discussions with GRR for something like 18 months. I wonder if any of the Aus Super teams' CEOs could say the same?

I was interested to hear Rob Nichols from NZRUPA contacted most other RUPA's in the world when Corona hit too, he actually got Japanese clubs to let kiwi players return home too. Does that just mean that kiwis talk too much??

 

[kiap]

Someone who follows it closer than me might be able to shed some light.

I think you're reading too much into 'saders involvement. The quote from their CEO using the word "we" was about overall nz discussion with rapid rugby, not specifically his own team's involvement. Yes, the crusaders squad, minus top-line players, did play a match in world series rugby in 2018. But that's really the extent of it.

 

[kiap]

I quite like a quick comp ........

A relatively quick comp has a lot going for it when you are talking about far-flung destinations.

Excess flying should be pared back. And I'd include the slightly more sane long expensive flights within similar time zones in that category, not just batshit crazy ones circling the globe with the sun.

It does move such a comp more into the realm of a "champions cup", however, when the number of home games can be counted on one hand. That's fine, though, if the same teams also have further domestic fixtures bringing up their quantity of home games.

 

[eastman]

My position is that RA should be providing support to club competitions everywhere in the country to the extent that it can. That doesn't necessarily mean direct financial support either, it could be a range or resources or support. Unlike some rugby countries, rugby isn't evenly spread across Australia so it stands to reason that a greater quantum of most things are going to go to the areas where there are the most clubs and players.

This is a Sydney-centric view but one of the bigger issue between the professional and club rugby is not from the lack of financial support from RA but the disconnect between the elite players and these clubs. Some Waratah players have absolutely no connection to the grassroots of rugby, which is understandable in many instances if you're Israel Folau/ Curtis Rona who were developed through different pathways, but RA should be mandate (contractually oblige) these guys do so much more in community rugby. It always astounded me that no one in RA, saw the irony in trying to position Izzy and Kurtley Beale as the face of rugby in the western suburbs but not making either commit to being players at one of those clubs- was it not obvious?

Bill Pulver was correct, though unlucky, when he said that Shute Shield Clubs 'piss money against the wall'- they absolutely have in the past, despite funding being linked to various conditions/ stipulations. The majority of funding should go to the junior clubs, not the senior clubs that they are aligned to- unfortunately many senior clubs have just not been prudent enough in their administration.

 

[Omar Comin']

I found this quote from the Crusaders CEO interesting: "From my understanding of Twiggy’s vision, he wants to take the game to a bigger audience particularly in Asia so I think there could be room for several tiers in that competition. You don’t want teams winning games by 50-60 points, you want it to be competitive and it’s even better if all those tiered competitions play in the same time zone."

An Asia-Pacific competition with 2 or 3 tiers could be quite interesting. Either in the form of a multi divisional league structure with promotion and relegation, or as more of a multi-division champions league type format that follows shorter domestic competitions.

 

[Dan54]

A relatively quick comp has a lot going for it when you are talking about far-flung destinations.

Excess flying should be pared back. And I'd include the slightly more sane long expensive flights within similar time zones in that category, not just batshit crazy ones circling the globe with the sun.

It does move such a comp more into the realm of a "champions cup", though, when the number of home games can be counted on one hand. That's fine, though, if the same teams also have further domestic fixtures bringing up their quantity of home games.

Was interesting to hear other opinions on Breakdown the other night, like while the RC on, if NZ played Aus 2 times in Aus they could make a mini tour and pick up a couple of "friendlies" against say Qld or Brumbies depending where tests were. Very loose idea just thrown out there, and Wallabies could so same in NZ for instance,(and I assume SA etc) so teams travel to country for a few weeks. Could work with a shorter Super or whatever comp and give a bit more space at end.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I actually like that, a 9 team comp would work well for me, even a 1 round comp, ( though I suspect TV would want more), but the idea is good. See I quite like a quick comp of 10-12 weeks, and allow for a little more in alternative comps ie; NZ a North/South or something, and Aus could do something too!!

Don't jump down my throat fellas just a random thought!!

How is that any different from a Trans-Tasman competition?

 

[Derpus]

I found this quote from the Crusaders CEO interesting: "From my understanding of Twiggy’s vision, he wants to take the game to a bigger audience particularly in Asia so I think there could be room for several tiers in that competition. You don’t want teams winning games by 50-60 points, you want it to be competitive and it’s even better if all those tiered competitions play in the same time zone."

An Asia-Pacific competition with 2 or 3 tiers could be quite interesting. Either in the form of a multi divisional league structure with promotion and relegation, or as more of a multi-division champions league type format that follows shorter domestic competitions.

That's the holy grail isn't it?

 

[Dan54]

How is that any different from a Trans-Tasman competition?

Not really, I was kind of throwing that in the pot for a TT comp? Hell there are so many ideas I thought I would chuck in another of probably the 5-6 I had so far

 

[Dan54]

That's the holy grail isn't it?

Sounds quite bloody good in a lot of ways!!

 

[Derpus]

Surely the most likely and straightforward TT comp is just a shortened 9 team comp to commence in several months - followed by a 3 match Bled series.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Surely the most likely and straightforward TT comp is just a shortened 9 team comp to commence in several months - followed by a 3 match Bled series.

What about the Force? Surely a 10 team competition with Aus team playing home and away against one another, same for NZ and then a game each against the teams from each side of the Tasman for 13 games would be a better fit overall.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ short-term I think that's probably the only realistic option. PI involvement will have to wait until their tourism-dependant economies recover from Covid & that ain't gunna happen until there's a vaccine & enough of their people are vaxxed against the inevitable arrival of someone who's not.