Where to for Super Rugby?

[Quick Hands]

^^^Excellent analysis.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ thanks. Like I say, it gets brought up a fair bit so I've given it plenty of thought esp in recent weeks. Just don't ask for the NZ G&D lesson tonight, my head's a bit sore from putting so many words one after the other to make *sentances* & *paragraphs*. I envy Dismal's ability to just free-write.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

You do realise that what is written is an opinion piece by one writer?? It like reading a Paul Cully piece and saying so that's what Australia wants! I not saying that some don't want a domestic comp in NZ (and I quite keen), but hell the 1 or 2 writers in Newspapers no more give an opinion of what a country wants than 1 or 2 posters in a rugby forum.

What do you make of this.....

https://rugbynews.net.au/crusaders-...he-short-and-long-term-future-of-super-rugby/

 

[Mr Wobbly]

*snip

I also have some thoughts on another oft-repeated idea on here, that NZ should be required to field more than five teams in a TT or SWP comp. If we're talking a fully professional, Super Rugby-like comp this just doesn't work & I'm happy to give a NZ geography & demography lesson with commentary explaining why. But if we're talking something closer to the Mitre 10 Cup, of course that's doable BUT the money will be nowhere near as much & those who can leave for a NH contract, will.

*snip

Why not a comp with the existing nine super teams? 16 home and away rounds plus finals.

If the Kiwis win the comp 80% of the time then it wouldn't be any different to now. If each Aussie team could hire a couple of gun foreigners (and it was financially viable to do so) it would even the competition out enough.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ reinstate the Force, add a coupla PI team's (even if one's based in Auckland & the other in Western Sydney). We could call it Super 12 .

 

[hoggy]

Well just something of interest Twiggy looking at buying Virgin, now that would help with travel costs locally.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

^ reinstate the Force, add a coupla PI team's (even if one's based in Auckland & the other in Western Sydney). We could call it Super 12 .

The problems with 12 teams are:

22 rounds is probably too long for a home and away season
11 weeks is too short for a home or away season
Aus probably can't compete adequately with five teams (although Aus teams did win the comp twice when we did have five teams)

Unless we went back to a conference system .

 

[hoggy]

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/...8uWUpP3bnrvewCk78SVLEE8fhUjbBCmUl0iAg0uS-t1DI

Another interesting article.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

The problems with 12 teams are:

22 rounds is probably too long for a home and away season
11 weeks is too short for a home or away season
Aus probably can't compete adequately with five teams (although Aus teams did win the comp twice when we did have five teams)

Unless we went back to a conference system .

Why not a full round-robin (11 weeks) then split into Premiership & Championship (points from RR carried over) for five weeks with SF & GF. With a coupla bye weeks that's doable in 19 or 20 weeks.

Nothing wrong with Conferences, BTW, it's just that SANZAAR fucked up big-time with the (2 x 4) + (2 x 5) format when it was obvious 3 x 6 was the answer IF the answer to the question "can we do an 18-team comp?" was YES, WE CAN. Which it clearly wasn't.

 

[Quick Hands]

What do you make of this...

https://rugbynews.net.au/crusaders-...he-short-and-long-term-future-of-super-rugby/

That article summarises why NZ rugby is successful and Australian rugby isn't. NZ see clubs appreciate the vital role of clubs in the development of professional players. In Australia the administrators see clubs as an annoyance left over from the amateur days.

I doubt for example, you'd ever see a senior NZRU official rip funding away from clubs because they'd just piss it up against the wall.

 

[Quick Hands]

^ reinstate the Force, add a coupla PI team's (even if one's based in Auckland & the other in Western Sydney). We could call it Super 12 .

Or the South Pacific Championship.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Why not a full round-robin (11 weeks) then split into Premiership & Championship (points from RR carried over) for five weeks with SF & GF. With a coupla bye weeks that's doable in 19 or 20 weeks.

Nothing wrong with Conferences, BTW, it's just that SANZAAR fucked up big-time with the (2 x 4) + (2 x 5) format when it was obvious 3 x 6 was the answer IF the answer to the question "can we do an 18-team comp?" was YES, WE CAN. Which it clearly wasn't.

Yep, splitting the comp could work.

Going to four conferences is exactly the point when SANZAAR screwed the pooch.

Three x six could have worked brilliantly with the top two from each conference playing finals. As I mentioned in another post ages ago, not a particularly fair system but would have been simple to understand, broadcasters would have loved it with guaranteed finals in every country, and it would have been engaging. Thanks for fucking that one up, SARU.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yeah, baby!

 

[Mr Wobbly]

That article summarises why NZ rugby is successful and Australian rugby isn't. NZ see clubs appreciate the vital role of clubs in the development of professional players. In Australia the administrators see clubs as an annoyance left over from the amateur days.

I doubt for example, you'd ever see a senior NZRU official rip funding away from clubs because they'd just piss it up against the wall.

Can't disagree with that. I don't fully understand the way rugby is run in NSW but it seems to be all over the place, like a mad person's shit. Do you think that having different unions in the one state is hurting the game? Maybe if there was one controlling body in each state that runs everything, from kids through to the pro team, it would work better?

 

[Derpus]

I also have some thoughts on another oft-repeated idea on here, that NZ should be required to field more than five teams in a TT or SWP comp. If we're talking a fully professional, Super Rugby-like comp this just doesn't work & I'm happy to give a NZ geography & demography lesson with commentary explaining why. But if we're talking something closer to the Mitre 10 Cup, of course that's doable BUT the money will be nowhere near as much & those who can leave for a NH contract, will.

I don't really see any scenario where this doesn't happen in the future, honestly. The money to retain our talented players isn't there. How can you compete with rich dudes who don't give a fuck and just lose money for fun?

 

[KOB1987]

I don't really see any scenario where this doesn't happen in the future, honestly. The money to retain our talented players isn't there. How can you compete with rich dudes who don't give a fuck and just lose money for fun?

Recruit Twiggy as one of those

 

[Derpus]

Recruit Twiggy as one of those

Hah - Twiggy isn't one of those. Not for shit.

 

[KOB1987]

Hah - Twiggy isn't one of those. Not for shit.

True that. However, they aren't exclusive to the northern hemisphere. Or at least their investments aren't. They've never had an opportunity south of the equator, if the market is opened up and the model is right then who knows what will happen.

EDIT: although I saw someone post he might buy Virgin so maybe he is 'one of those'!

 

[Brumby Runner]

Interesting that Colin Mansbridge (Crusaders' CEO) says that they have been in discussions with GRR for something like 18 months. I wonder if any of the Aus Super teams' CEOs could say the same?

 

[KOB1987]

Interesting that Colin Mansbridge (Crusaders' CEO) says that they have been in discussions with GRR for something like 18 months. I wonder if any of the Aus Super teams' CEOs could say the same?

They had a seconds squad in the comp didn’t they? Don’t think any of our franchises had that luxury!