Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
That was the Wildfire which were more of a cobbled together rep squad. Not individual clubs. Which is what I was suggesting.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Sorry, I did not read your original post. My understanding of the problem in Newcastle was the huge rift between the Maitland and Newcastle organisations. Favour one, and the other won't get involved, apparently.
The Wildfires did beat Eastwood in their last ever game. My wife and i were there. It was the year that Eastwood went on to win their first ever premiership. It was not a close game, either, the Woodies were thrashed.
I suspect that the biggest problem would be sponsorship. Newcastle is the biggest league town in the world. Slight exaggeration, but not by much. Worth remembering that a Newcastle team was in the first ever league competition in Australia, in Sydney, 1908.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
and the trains now take longer to get there than they did back then
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Cannot beat the old 38s!!!!!! Got a bit smokey through the Hawkesbury tunnels, though.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
It takes longer to get from Sydney to Parramatta by train now than it did 100 years ago too.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
This sort of stuff is why I wanted to see Pulver, Clyne et al in open court being questioned. I'd be fairly sure that the ARU and NSWRU are run in the same slap dash manner.
http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2017/QDC17-221.pdf
IMO Rugby WA made a huge tactical blunder in going with arbitration instead of a full blown court hearing.
http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2017/QDC17-221.pdf
IMO Rugby WA made a huge tactical blunder in going with arbitration instead of a full blown court hearing.
lou75
Ron Walden (29)
lets not forget the mighty Rebels who pretty much clean up on slap dash
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
You've got to look at the dates, though. Knuckles' action dragged out more than two years.
RugbyWA came unstuck in making their partnership with the ARU, agreeing to be in the vanguard of centralising parts of their operations to get access to cash.
Loophole left in the contract so they were bent over, sans lube, by their "partner".
That should spell the end of the centralisation model.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
This is how the game is run, and a large part of the reason that we are where we are now. I suspect that all franchises and the ARU are run the same way.
Car park searches, world wide recruiting processes which come up with your best mate from school as the candidate, panicked appointments over the phone, inability to understand the basics of contract law - these guys pretty much cover it all.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
True, but in his case he wasn't after an injunction to stop the process, he was after damages so the time factor isn't really a factor. RWA could have got an injunction pending court action as they did for the appeal against the arbitration.
2bluesfan
Nev Cottrell (35)
Slap dash? Almost slapstick comedy. What a schemozzle.
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
I suspect the force's participation agreement specified a dispute resolution process, in this case arbitration. If so they had no option to go to court for a full blown hearing
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Perhaps that's right. At the very least they were far too trusting when they entered into any agreement with the ARU. Possibly if they had tested the who thing including the dispute resolution process in court, it all might have been thrown out. Just as the judge in Qld found that the two purported QRU contracts weren't worth the paper that they were printed on and he went with the verbal agreement.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Sometimes its easier just to copy the article and this is one of those times. Not a lot thats new but in one spot. Read for yourselves
From NEWS.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...h/news-story/f1cd33ce9b72702b3e9ae3dd52789acd
SHOCKING details of an ARU funding discrepancy between the Force and other Super Rugby teams have emerged during a Senate hearing grilling for chief executive Bill Pulver.
AUSTRALIAN Rugby Union chief Bill Pulver has faced hostile questioning at a Senate hearing where it was suggested the Melbourne Rebels had received more than double the funding of the Western Force before the latter’s axing from the Super Rugby competition.
The title of the hearing was the ‘Future of rugby union in Australia’ but was dominated by the issues surrounding the recent decision to dump the Force.
In the past three years the Force had received the least amount of funding of Australia’s five teams and the Rebels the most, WA Liberal Senator Linda Reynolds told the hearing, citing ARU statements.
That included $33 million to the Rebels and just $15 million to the Force, she said.
The Rebels also had a $13 million loan written off by the ARU when businessman Andrew Cox bought the franchise for $1 in 2015 before handing it over to the Victorian Rugby Union this year.
“Any way you look at this, the Force got the least amount of these Super Rugby grants than any other team, in some cases they get almost half of what the Rebels got,” Sen Reynolds told the hearing.
He said he could not say whether Sen Reynolds’ figures were correct or not, which she said was surprising as he was CEO.
The questioning became heated when Pulver refused to reveal what support or deals were done with the Rebels and Cox, citing confidentiality agreements.
Pulver, who spoke briefly to disgruntled Force fans that turned up to the hearing, said the senate committee was mocking him over that, but Greens Senator Rachel Siewert said she was incredulous that he would not reveal such important information.
Pulver told the senators that “meaningful change” had to occur, including cutting the number of teams given how poorly Australia was performing on and off the field in Super Rugby.
“This is the most competitive winter sports market, no other rugby nation in the world has to compete with three other football codes,” he said.
Force chairman Tony Howarth said he believed the ARU made its decision before consulting his club and said it had not received the “equalisation” support it needed from the governing body.
However, he said mining magnate Andrew Forrest’s bid to create a breakaway international competition that could save the club had traction.
Mark Sinderberry, who was the Force’s CEO this year, compared the ARU’s treatment of the club unfavourably with the significant on and off-field support the AFL has given its new clubs in rugby league-dominated NSW and Queensland.
From NEWS.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...h/news-story/f1cd33ce9b72702b3e9ae3dd52789acd
SHOCKING details of an ARU funding discrepancy between the Force and other Super Rugby teams have emerged during a Senate hearing grilling for chief executive Bill Pulver.
AUSTRALIAN Rugby Union chief Bill Pulver has faced hostile questioning at a Senate hearing where it was suggested the Melbourne Rebels had received more than double the funding of the Western Force before the latter’s axing from the Super Rugby competition.
The title of the hearing was the ‘Future of rugby union in Australia’ but was dominated by the issues surrounding the recent decision to dump the Force.
In the past three years the Force had received the least amount of funding of Australia’s five teams and the Rebels the most, WA Liberal Senator Linda Reynolds told the hearing, citing ARU statements.
That included $33 million to the Rebels and just $15 million to the Force, she said.
The Rebels also had a $13 million loan written off by the ARU when businessman Andrew Cox bought the franchise for $1 in 2015 before handing it over to the Victorian Rugby Union this year.
“Any way you look at this, the Force got the least amount of these Super Rugby grants than any other team, in some cases they get almost half of what the Rebels got,” Sen Reynolds told the hearing.
He said he could not say whether Sen Reynolds’ figures were correct or not, which she said was surprising as he was CEO.
The questioning became heated when Pulver refused to reveal what support or deals were done with the Rebels and Cox, citing confidentiality agreements.
Pulver, who spoke briefly to disgruntled Force fans that turned up to the hearing, said the senate committee was mocking him over that, but Greens Senator Rachel Siewert said she was incredulous that he would not reveal such important information.
Pulver told the senators that “meaningful change” had to occur, including cutting the number of teams given how poorly Australia was performing on and off the field in Super Rugby.
“This is the most competitive winter sports market, no other rugby nation in the world has to compete with three other football codes,” he said.
Force chairman Tony Howarth said he believed the ARU made its decision before consulting his club and said it had not received the “equalisation” support it needed from the governing body.
However, he said mining magnate Andrew Forrest’s bid to create a breakaway international competition that could save the club had traction.
Mark Sinderberry, who was the Force’s CEO this year, compared the ARU’s treatment of the club unfavourably with the significant on and off-field support the AFL has given its new clubs in rugby league-dominated NSW and Queensland.
B
BLR
Guest
^^^^ As Force supporters this heavy inequality towards us financially may not have been solidly known but I think most supporters knew we were getting the wrong end of the stick, especially once the Firepower money dried up & the Rebels came into play.
M
Moono75
Guest
^^^^^^^ No it wasn't inequality, as we were told so often on this forum we as Western Australians just had a chip on our shoulder, an ill founded mistrust of the East, we should just get over it!
Sorry, NO.... we just don't like getting shafted by ill conceived, illogical, unreasonable and corrupt decisions.
Sorry, NO.... we just don't like getting shafted by ill conceived, illogical, unreasonable and corrupt decisions.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Looking ahead to Super Rugby, and more specifically South Africa's potential role in it:
1. Border Bulldogs
History now (2014), but part of the story. ANC involvement, transformation, money missing, fold. Started here: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/CurrieCup/Border-rugby-in-crisis-20131113
2. Cheeky Watson - the gift that keeps giving
The disease spread to Border's "umbrella" Franchise, the EPRU (Kings/Spears) at the Eastern Cape. Most will know something of the finance and Cheeky Watson debacle which centred on transformation, but did you know it's back? Note that the word "Bantustan" is not exactly considered polite in the RSA, probably would be met by outrage should it be used flippantly by a white man, and Thanda Manana is quite intentional. https://citizen.co.za/sport/south-a...ays-rugby-in-the-eastern-cape-is-a-bantustan/
In a nut shell a "pro transformation group" is demanding that SARU not just reinstate the EPRU but hand over control of the EP Kings to their mates. Demands for a fan boycott (500 - 900 fans at their last game and now a boycott). Noses looking for a trough?
No longer in Super Rugby, but part of the general demise.
3. WPRU - Stormers in trouble
Basically the private bail out package has descended into anarchy and into the RSA court system. No good to come out of this. http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/remgro-shock-wp-rugby-back-in-soup-20170805
4. Blue Bulls Rugby Union
Rugby heartland in wealthy and highly populated Pretoria should be a natural success. But the commercials have been struggling: http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/sport/...-looking-for-buyers-due-to-financial-pressure
And they are not helping the Springboks: http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/HermanMostert/are-bulls-being-fair-on-boks-20170920
And their results are dreadful. You will remember their Super performance, here they are in the Currie Cup sitting behind the Pumas and just ahead of the plucky but unlucky Griquas. Yes that is the rugby cohort that the Bulls sit with - two clubs few fans in Australia will have heard of.
For 2018 only the Sharks and Lions look particularly healthy. SARU problems are not easing.
2020?
1. Border Bulldogs
History now (2014), but part of the story. ANC involvement, transformation, money missing, fold. Started here: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/CurrieCup/Border-rugby-in-crisis-20131113
2. Cheeky Watson - the gift that keeps giving
The disease spread to Border's "umbrella" Franchise, the EPRU (Kings/Spears) at the Eastern Cape. Most will know something of the finance and Cheeky Watson debacle which centred on transformation, but did you know it's back? Note that the word "Bantustan" is not exactly considered polite in the RSA, probably would be met by outrage should it be used flippantly by a white man, and Thanda Manana is quite intentional. https://citizen.co.za/sport/south-a...ays-rugby-in-the-eastern-cape-is-a-bantustan/
In a nut shell a "pro transformation group" is demanding that SARU not just reinstate the EPRU but hand over control of the EP Kings to their mates. Demands for a fan boycott (500 - 900 fans at their last game and now a boycott). Noses looking for a trough?
No longer in Super Rugby, but part of the general demise.
3. WPRU - Stormers in trouble
Basically the private bail out package has descended into anarchy and into the RSA court system. No good to come out of this. http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/remgro-shock-wp-rugby-back-in-soup-20170805
4. Blue Bulls Rugby Union
Rugby heartland in wealthy and highly populated Pretoria should be a natural success. But the commercials have been struggling: http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/sport/...-looking-for-buyers-due-to-financial-pressure
And they are not helping the Springboks: http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/HermanMostert/are-bulls-being-fair-on-boks-20170920
And their results are dreadful. You will remember their Super performance, here they are in the Currie Cup sitting behind the Pumas and just ahead of the plucky but unlucky Griquas. Yes that is the rugby cohort that the Bulls sit with - two clubs few fans in Australia will have heard of.
For 2018 only the Sharks and Lions look particularly healthy. SARU problems are not easing.
2020?
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