Where to for Super Rugby?

[Ruggo]

This comp would last long enough to force the ARU to come to the table and settle on a merger. It would be like Super League.

He knows the ARU can't compete sustainably and that is his leverage.

If his comp provides a significant investment into the PI, he will also hold chips when it comes to dealing with the global body.

 

[Derpus]

This comp would last long enough to force the ARU to come to the table and settle on a merger. It would be like Super League.

He knows the ARU can't compete sustainably and that is his leverage.

This is bullshit. Twiggy won't invest the kind of funds required to set up a rival competition. There are too many road-blocks not least the extraordinary premium he would have to pay for players to give up their right to play for their national teams.

Something like this would require hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[Ruggo]

He has money to burn and he has a cause. I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Call bullshit if you wish.

 

[Derpus]

If he is gunna piss that kind of money away, i can think of hundreds of causes that better deserve it.

 

[Braveheart81]

If Twiggy threw $100m at a rival competition it would be amazing for Australian rugby. I would be highly surprised if he did that though.

Twiggy's comment about it being bad for the ARU but great for Australian rugby seem a little unrealistic. If an additional revenue stream was created that involved some Australian players and Australian based teams it's hard to see it being anything but a good thing all round.

 

[James Pettifer]

He has money to burn and he has a cause. I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Call bullshit if you wish.

He definitely has the funds to do it. 10 teams $10 million salary cap each would get you a pretty decent competition.
But he also has other causes that he is heavily interested in like the abolition of slavery.

Depends on what he wants to do.

 

[Warpath]

If this goes through, it should be run during the Super Rugby months (Feb-May) but somehow complement the competition by running on different times for example, have one game at 5:30pm in australia and when it ends at 7:30pm, ppl can switch to Super rugby for a NZ conference game. this would benefit both competition as it would mean MORE RUGBY on Telly and since there is a good chance this may be on free-2-air, it will give SANZAR more reason to put more Super rugby games on free-2-air (currently pacific island countries get ONE free super rugby game a week)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Again, I don't feel like I turn up at a rugby game supporting a "product".



I support the team and the players and enjoy watching rugby of all varieties, particularly live.



The politics, competition structure and bureaucracy are the last things on my mind when actually watching a game. They are certainly things to focus on outside of the game and to campaign for positive changes.



I don't really get how or why I should like my team less (or any of the teams) because the conference structure is crap or the ARU board are making poor decisions.

You pay good money for Super Rugby and if you don't like the way the game is run you leave the game or find other products to support (read club rugby).....what part of the thousands of fans who have deserted Super Rugby have you not got? People have choices and unfortunately due to the ARU creating a sour taste around a professional game in a competition that is of already declining interest just helps put the nail in the coffin for many.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

He definitely has the funds to do it. 10 teams $10 million salary cap each would get you a pretty decent competition.

But he also has other causes that he is heavily interested in like the abolition of slavery.



Depends on what he wants to do.

Good point - could just use the $50m that was going to be offered to the ARU to stump up / provide initial funding for the competition. But needs to be set up to be financially sustainable as doubt mr Forrest is interested in funding a competition year on year.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Come on, don't be so melodramatic. Realistically, the Rebels need the Force players and their coach, or we will be dead in the water within 2 years.



And lets not be coy here, at this stage, the Plan B spoken of by many Force players is the Rebels.



I would go so far as to say that the Force in death have saved the Rebels via vital organ donations.

Question whether rebels can be financially sustainable and grow even if give some temporary life support. Jury still very much out on that one. But yes they get some decent players they start running out of excuses....

 

[Braveheart81]

You pay good money for Super Rugby and if you don't like the way the game is run you leave the game or find other products to support (read club rugby)...what part of the thousands of fans who have deserted Super Rugby have you not got? People have choices and unfortunately due to the ARU creating a sour taste around a professional game in a competition that is of already declining interest just helps put the nail in the coffin for many.

Who has lost out on the dwindling support for Super Rugby?

The ARU have spent more money bailing out the Super Rugby sides resulting in smaller distributions to the State Unions and less direct spending on the grassroots.

Poorer financial results by the Super Rugby teams that have direct distributions to their State Union (such as the Waratahs) have seen that distribution drop which harms the grassroots.

Lack of growth in salaries to keep pace with Europe has meant we have lost more of the second tier players just below Wallaby level because we can't compete on those contracts.

I don't think by any stretch of the imagination you could say that those fans have flocked to club rugby. Crowds are incredibly healthy for a few teams but not the competition as a whole. There certainly hasn't been huge growth there in the last few years.

 

[half]

Just on the new competition.

Won't be a Super League type war IMO, as both Packer & Murdoch had income streams and expected to at the end have a very profitable product.

Not saying it will be small neither, just can't see TF allocating the funds needed to fund a full on war away from his other causes .... Unless he can pull off a decent media deal, then the cost to go head to head IMO will even for TW be a tad to high when other things could be funded as well.

 

[moa999]

I understood that the commercial success of the Pro12 teams had a lot to do with their gate takings. If so, Cheetahs have work to do and the Kings might not have been the right team..

Average crowd at first round was pretty poor. Average of 7k with all but Ulster under 10k
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Pro14

 

[I like to watch]

It would embarrass the ARU, it would generate discussion. The majority of people outside of WA will be watching the game on TV so it doesn't effect them.

If you don't think the ARU would be embarrassed by seeing an empty stadium then you are missing the point.

There is nothing that would embarrass these guys, and nothing that would shame them.
They are truly shameless.
Unfortunately.

 

[WaltBrisney]

I would be targeting under 20's. Stitch them up with a decent salary and let them grow with the game. As revenue from the game grows, so too could their salaries. These are the players you want to capture and if you get the best young talent, the ARU will need to sit up and listen with regard to representative eligibility. It's not the stars at the end of their careers we should be worried about losing to overseas markets. The big concern is the developing or so called 'second tier' players. Their loss is what is really hurting wallaby performances.

If a new comp could keep some of those players here and entice others to choose Rugby pathways over league opportunities, that would be a huge win.

 

[Rebels3]

I think it'd be along the lines of a semi professional competition, set up similar to the NPC/ITM/Mitre 10 Cup style, 10-12 rounds. It would need to be a competition that's sustainable in the long term as well. Also learn the lessons from Super Rugby, no teams a million miles away, no team that's 5+ hours in front or behind.

Ideally a competition with the support of local governments and appropriate pathways for those competing to go to higher honors. All with some assistance from Twiggy to help.

Force (with a full time professional program if you include the NRC)
Singapore (who have indicated a desire to build some presence in rugby)
Fiji (The Drua, with this and the NRC potentially a full time program)
Samoa/Tonga (Semi professionalism is prob as good as they would be able to get)
Sri Lanka (already have some professional 7s programs)
Hong Kong (have a full time professional program already, might give them some regular competition)

Run in conjunction with Asian 5/3 Nations, Pacific Nations Cup and the NRC. Pathways can't be ignored, we should all realize that after the brainless decision of the past 175days

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I got you point.

Have you considered that reluctantly, but regretfully the majority of supporters want that to happen as its the only way to get rid of the incumbent old boys/leather elbow patch brigade that has put the game in this place as it the only way it will occur? Just remember that every Super Rugby franchise voted for this mess!

The reality is the script changed a few moths back when 2 out of the remaining 4 Super Rugby unions have heavy government investment / involvement (controlling interest) and its whats keeping them afloat and paying their way.

Also have a good look at the poster child for the incompetence via nepotism and incumbent old boys/leather elbow patch mates brigade of the Brumbies. Two more years of Government oversight after Jones hit the nail on the head, and they have implemented all his suggested changes and still the ACT government have forced more governance changes - and ironically another suppressed audit report.

The TV executives, sponsors etc will no longer accept their involvement due to the financial risk they bring.

I doubt the IRB will tolerate it.

I am actually waiting for someone to consider the possibility (very real based on the current arrangement) of the Pert Spirt and Fiji Drua jumping ship from the NRC to Twiggys comp.

I reckon the Rams would be worth a shout if I were a betting man.

 

[moa999]

Force (with a full time professional program if you include the NRC)
Singapore (who have indicated a desire to build some presence in rugby)
Fiji (The Drua, with this and the NRC potentially a full time program)
Samoa/Tonga (Semi professionalism is prob as good as they would be able to get)
Sri Lanka (already have some professional 7s programs)
Hong Kong (have a full time professional program already, might give them some regular competition)

If you want the media $$s you get say 3 Japanese corporate teams, pinch a few East coast NRC teams then a few of the above

 

[Highlander35]

Average crowd at first round was pretty poor. Average of 7k with all but Ulster under 10k
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Pro14

THe size and ownership/leasing deals of the Stadia are key there moa. Of this weeks games, Ravenhill and whatever the Cork Stadium sponsorship name is are directly owned by the IRFU, Rodney Parade, Liberty, Parc y Scarlets and the Showgrounds are all owned by the Local Councils & Cardiff Arms is directly owned by Cardiff RFC.

Of the other Celtic Stadia to be played at this coming week, Thomond is owned by IRFU, Scoutstoun by the local council, Myreside by the local College, and the RDS by, you guessed it, the RDS.

This lets teams have a lot of their own at the sponsorship, and extremely favourable leasing terms, and off the top of my head, with Edinburgh having moved away from Murrayfield, the biggest one is 25k at Thomond, with the rest mostly being 8-18k capacity?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think it'd be along the lines of a semi professional competition, set up similar to the NPC/ITM/Mitre 10 Cup style, 10-12 rounds. It would need to be a competition that's sustainable in the long term as well. Also learn the lessons from Super Rugby, no teams a million miles away, no team that's 5+ hours in front or behind.

Ideally a competition with the support of local governments and appropriate pathways for those competing to go to higher honors. All with some assistance from Twiggy to help.

Force (with a full time professional program if you include the NRC)
Singapore (who have indicated a desire to build some presence in rugby)
Fiji (The Drua, with this and the NRC potentially a full time program)
Samoa/Tonga (Semi professionalism is prob as good as they would be able to get)
Sri Lanka (already have some professional 7s programs)
Hong Kong (have a full time professional program already, might give them some regular competition)

Run in conjunction with Asian 5/3 Nations, Pacific Nations Cup and the NRC. Pathways can't be ignored, we should all realize that after the brainless decision of the past 175days

Hong Kong would be a reasonable shout. Sri Lanka not so much. But I could be wrong. The AP Dragons (hopefully just called Singapore) would be another.

Wouldn't shock me to see the Drua jump across nor the likes of the Rams
actually, think someone like the Wild Knights may be a chance as well.

As for his plans on whether it will be full time or semi-pro. Depends on what his goals are. To compete or just exist. To compete he'd have to ensure it is fully pro in every sense. Already seen some mention of a Sevens set up alongside it. And women's. Hopefully in both formats.