Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

If the ARU goes bankrupt, or they ditch the peak body, where does the bulk of the state RU's money come from? Sure, they get some from the government and some from their own commercial operations, but a lot of it comes from the ARU.

I think driving reform at ARU and state RU level is the correct avenue to fix the mess. But, how many times have you heard an intelligent, well weighted pitch for reform and what it could look like? No, I'm not talking about Pappy, Allan Jones, or forum posters saying we should burn it all down, but a real model pitched with logic.

That is what we need.

A, dont you see a dichotomy here? We need reform from the top, but they aren't capable of doing it. That chain link needs to be broken.

Yes the cash comes from the ARU. But with this mess how long for? I'm expecting a further team cut for 2020, thanks to the ARU justification for four in 2018. And in short time the funding per team being less than now with five teams?

That funding from the ARU, is based on players from the State RUs, and the WBs. How do they manage the WBs without the States?

There would be an ugly interregnum to be sure, but wont we have this problem anyway? In fact the ARU stays scenario is likely to be worse. We could have two ugly interregnums in succession.

Yes I'd rather we had the ARU, or a revised ARU lead through one set of logical planned changes through to stability. Ideally with 5 Super teams through to the end of the current deal, then change to whatever comes next. I'd like that to be domestic based, with a SOO style season ending between domestic comp and internationals.

If NZ (SA, Argie Japan, PI, US - whoever) is interested in a knock out comp, call it Super if you want, then those SOO teams go into a knock out cup comp. if not, it stays domestic.

If ARU can lead us there, or to be frank, just anywhere logical, preferably involving rugby not lawyers, I'm in. Woo! Duck! One of those low flying pigs just entered the room.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What pulling power do the Australian teams have any more?
The public knows that these are not the best players in the world and they're not coached by the best coaches in the world so you cannot con them with second rate state rivalries.
The common denominator (in all but one modern) successful sports in this country is that they present pretty close to the best players of the particular code in the world every week: soccer is the odd man out

 

[Quick Hands]

What pulling power do the Australian teams have any more?
The public knows that these are not the best players in the world and they're not coached by the best coaches in the world so you cannot con them with second rate state rivalries.
The common denominator (in all but one modern) successful sports in this country is that they present pretty close to the best players of the particular code in the world every week: soccer is the odd man out

Barely 10,000 turned up to watch a Waratahs home game last week. It will be interesting to see how many turn up in Brisbane tonight.

I'd be interested in knowing how the match has been promoted in Brisbane, because unless you were a rusted on rugby tragic living in Sydney, you would have no idea that the game is even on.

In contrast, full back page of the Manly Daily devoted to Manly v Eastwood, a full page on the Sea Eagles inside and then 3/4 page on Warringah v Wests, plus some coverage of Newport and Forest subbies.

I work in an office of 10 people and not one person even mentioned the Reds v Waratahs match.

 

[dru]

Adding to my last post #4481.

Just a very few weeks ago I found the SRU rebels offensive. Civil war in Aus rugby was an anathema.

But right now we need an organised rebelion. So it might not be the rebelion I want, but it's the one I've got.

Jones, Begg, Papworth, Dwyer, Poido, get on with it please. But would you mind looking at some quick notes if you have time, please:
1. Grass roots means more than SS.
2. Australian rugby is more than NSW.
3. Ditto NSW and Qld.
4. Our greatest growth opportunity may well be Perth ahead of western Sydney.
5. Our toughest challenge, but most lucrative $ opportunity may well be Melbourne over Sydney and Perth.
6. NSW, you better get your own shit together while we are at it, I see little evidence of harmony between the clubs and NSWRU. A signy of harmony might be disolving the SRU independence for more centralised management from NSW. In fact more centralised harmony might mean proactively working with the (revised) national body.
7. You have to have some kind of proposal if you want televised national rugby involving the traditional clubs. Destruction of the NRC is not a strategy.
8. Those blokes and ladies on the ARU board, with their mono-vision to solvency, might be EXACTLY what you need in the States/pro team organisations.

That'll do for now. Where do I sign up?

 

[RedsHappy]

The ARU is predominantly made up of successful business people with good intentions, vacancies are filled by like minded people that are known to them.

Any talk of reforms would just be rebuffed, as they don't see themselves as failures, and in any case how could anyone less successful in life, know more about the issue than them.
That's their logic.
Unfortunately only total failure,or very close to it, is the only precursor to real reform.
Unfortunately.

There's much in what you say ILTW.

I'm sure most of the ARU board members, when hand-wringing over a good red, conceive of the 'challenges we have at the ARU' as largely a consequence of outside factors 'over which we have no control' such 'the intense competitive strength of NRL and AFL, and now the incursions from soccer'.

As I've long said, the institutional cultures and MOs of Australian rugby create practices and attitudes at elite levels whereby no one truly is accountable, sees themselves as such, or takes responsibility in a genuine manner.

Leadership deficiencies are typically explained and excused away, and everything is forgiven without personal consequence.

 

[NTT]

14 000 to an AFL match in Canberra. Thats bigger than the Brumbies and Raiders combined.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/gr...s/news-story/9a0692152755b9330579b86b0d4f300d

Just goes to show how many fans would travel to Canberra from Melbourne and Sydney for a sporting event.

 

[Slim 293]

14 000 to an AFL match in Canberra. Thats bigger than the Brumbies and Raiders combined.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/gr...s/news-story/9a0692152755b9330579b86b0d4f300d

Er, the Raiders have been attracting larger crowds than that lately............

But it shouldn't surprise anyone that casually follows the AFL that the first Friday night AFL game in Canberra featuring GWS and the Bulldogs got a good crowd, in fact:

GREATER Western Sydney chief executive David Matthews believes that Manuka Oval is better placed to stage Friday night games ahead of Spotless Stadium.
The Giants feature in the first Friday night game in club history when they host the Western Bulldogs in Canberra.
Matthews acknowledged the difficulty in hosting a Friday night game in western Sydney, but hopes it will become an option in the future.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-28/canberra-a-better-option-for-primetime-giants-matthews

 

[NTT]

Er, the Raiders have been attracting larger crowds than that lately....

But it shouldn't surprise anyone that casually follows the AFL that the first Friday night AFL game in Canberra featuring GWS and the Bulldogs got a good crowd, in fact:


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-28/canberra-a-better-option-for-primetime-giants-matthews

Still, its a crowd the Brumbies can only dream of currently. In fact, if the Brumbies pull 8500 and the Rebels pull 7500 then thats 16 000 at each game. A financially sustainable figure ...

 

[Slim 293]

Still, its a crowd the Brumbies can only dream of currently. In fact, if the Brumbies pull 8500 and the Rebels pull 7500 then thats 16 000 at each game. A financially sustainable figure .

GWS can probably also dream of getting a crowd that large again this year, but they did average larger crowds in their few games in Canberra last year than what the Brumbies, Force and Rebels attracted for their home games - obviously though that number would probably be significantly reduced if they played a full season at Manuka oval.

But yes, Super Rugby crowd sizes are currently poor for all teams...........

In the Brumbies case they also don't host the Tahs this year which is generally their biggest crowd puller - 18,000 last year.

In fact, looking at their draw for the rest of the season this weekend against the Blues is potentially their last chance for a decent home crowd as they only host the Lions and Rebels after that.

 

[Brumby Runner]

14 000 to an AFL match in Canberra. Thats bigger than the Brumbies and Raiders combined.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/gr...s/news-story/9a0692152755b9330579b86b0d4f300d

Just goes to show how many fans would travel to Canberra from Melbourne and Sydney for a sporting event.

Not sure where you get your figures NTT, or when they were meant to have attended a match, but the Brumbies attracted over 11,000 to a recent match at GIO Stadium, and I'm led to believe the Raiders have been attracting even bigger crowds. How about a bit of detail to back up your assertions?

 

[formerflanker]

Broadcast TV rights and income are driving SAANZAR decisions.
Today's Australian has an worrying article:
Sporting bubble bursts as broadcasters lose money on rights

If Super rugby is caught up in a declining pot of gold from Fox, decisions about cutting teams will have increased emphasis on drawing crowds.

 

[TOCC]

Foxtel wanted to retain 5 teams... SANZAAR didn't

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Foxtel wanted to retain 5 teams. SANZAAR didn't

Makes sense, I suspect: a new game however bad probably trumps a replay.
The scheduling has gone to shit: this lack of a Friday 7:30 game is forcing me to watch league

 

[Slim 293]

There's been a number of weeks without a game in the Australian prime time slot on the Friday........

It's another problem that has nothing to do with the number of teams, and will get worse when we cut a team and don't fix the format of the competition.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That article in the OZ is interesting reading. I'm with the author and think with the parlous state of many TV networks finances that we've reached the peak (for the moment at least) of the value of the rights for the coverage. I wouldn't be surprised if the money changing hands for sport falls away in the next few years. That probably wouldn't be a bad thing actually, as I think the costs of pro sport has gotten a little out of control.

 

[TOCC]

With the shift in the global season, Super Rugby should finish towards the end of June meaning non-walllabies return to club rugby a month earlier then usual. I wonder if there is time to include some form of Club Championship in the window between this and the NRC.

I'm not particularly a massive fan of Super Rugby players returning to club rugby just for the run home to the finals, it tends to shift the balance of power quite a bit. So the regular season could finish around the same time as Super Rugby finishes, and then a club championship with QPR/SS teams wiuld commence, with all the returning Super Rugby players.

 

[Quick Hands]

Adding to my last post #4481.

Just a very few weeks ago I found the SRU rebels offensive. Civil war in Aus rugby was an anathema.

But right now we need an organised rebelion. So it might not be the rebelion I want, but it's the one I've got.

Jones, Begg, Papworth, Dwyer, Poido, get on with it please. But would you mind looking at some quick notes if you have time, please:
1. Grass roots means more than SS.
2. Australian rugby is more than NSW.
3. Ditto NSW and Qld.
4. Our greatest growth opportunity may well be Perth ahead of western Sydney.
5. Our toughest challenge, but most lucrative $ opportunity may well be Melbourne over Sydney and Perth.
6. NSW, you better get your own shit together while we are at it, I see little evidence of harmony between the clubs and NSWRU. A signy of harmony might be disolving the SRU independence for more centralised management from NSW. In fact more centralised harmony might mean proactively working with the (revised) national body.
7. You have to have some kind of proposal if you want televised national rugby involving the traditional clubs. Destruction of the NRC is not a strategy.
8. Those blokes and ladies on the ARU board, with their mono-vision to solvency, might be EXACTLY what you need in the States/pro team organisations.

That'll do for now. Where do I sign up?

Agree with most of this.

In regards to point 6, the NSWRU (and the QRU I suspect) are similar sorts of train wrecks to the ARU. Totally unresponsive to and dinsconneted from it's base. The SRU threw in its lot with the NSWRU for a while (about 10-15 years IIRC), but basically found that the organisation was unresponsive to its needs. They then reformed the SRU and struck out on their own. The structure is quite simple the club presidents form the committee and meet to decide how the thing is run. The executive is elected by and thus responsive to the clubs. So, if the majority of clubs don't like what's going on, they vote the executive out and change course.

This course of action isn't possible with the way the NSWRU and the ARU are constituted and until there is a complete restructure, those bodies will remain as they are.

As previously suggested, I'd do away with state unions altogether and have regions afiliating directly with the ARU. I can't see the logic in using 19th century colonial borders to run a sport in the 21st century.

The ACTRU already oversees the southern part of NSW (not sure if this is official or de facto control) and there's no logical reason why rugby on the Gold Coast shouldn't be joined to rugby on the north coast of NSW.

Directly affiliation is brodly speaking the model that the RFU uses in England where the clubs afiliate to the RFU, which has then formed about 30 odd regional boards to run local development, academies and competitions.

 

[Slim 293]

The ACTRU already oversees the southern part of NSW (not sure if this is official or de facto control) and there's no logical reason why rugby on the Gold Coast shouldn't be joined to rugby on the north coast of NSW.

I'm quite certain it's official as their actual title is ACT and Southern NSW Rugby Union, and they oversee the Monaro divisions.

 

[Slim 293]

Just to add to that............

A quick wiki search mentions that they officially became the ACT and Southern NSW Rugby Union prior to 2005 when they took over governing the Far South Coast and Southern Inland Unions of NSW.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^This is a far more logical way to structure the game IMO.