Where to for Super Rugby?

[The torpedo]

..IS..got a great Friday arvo laugh out of that.

I don't get it.........

 

[NTT]

$31million in funding to the provincial Mitre 10 teams. that's the gulf between Australian and New Zealand, that's why they have a production line of talent to step up to Super Rugbyz

But surprisingly only $3.2milliok to the Super Rugby teams in total, assuming NZRU covers players wages and the teams are expected to cover other costs through their own match day income..

Corporate expenditure of $10 million vs ARUs $17 million. $31 million into the 3rd tier competition pathways vs ARUs $9 million into NRC and grassroots. $3.2 million to the Super Clubs vs ARUs $8.7 million.
And still no breakdown of the $28 million .....

 

[KOB1987]

Part of me wants this to go completely pear shaped so we can put a broom through the fucking place, draw a line in the sand and start all over. Whatever happens the game needs a benefactor - someone with a heap of money who's gone completely marbles and his main interest is rugby union in Australia. Anyone know him?

 

[No4918]

Part of me wants this to go completely pear shaped so we can put a broom through the fucking place, draw a line in the sand and start all over. Whatever happens the game needs a benefactor - someone with a heap of money who's gone completely marbles and his main interest is rugby union in Australia. Anyone know him?

Hate to see what would need to happen for you to say it's gone completely pear shaped. This whole season on and off the park is diabolical. If this was a professionally run sport it would well and truly be enough to see boards cleaned out and CEOs sacked. Unfortunately the sport is so inbred there isn't anyone left outside the sanctum wih the power to stand up and force change. Pear shaped.

 

[KOB1987]

Hate to see what would need to happen for you to say it's gone completely pear shaped. This whole season on and off the park is diabolical. If this was a professionally run sport it would well and truly be enough to see boards cleaned out and CEOs sacked. Unfortunately the sport is so inbred there isn't anyone left outside the sanctum wih the power to stand up and force change. Pear shaped.

Agreed. But the system is still living and breathing, just not in a form we want it to be. By pear shaped I mean that the professional structure almost completely collapses and the ARU goes belly up.

 

[Quick Hands]

Agreed. But the system is still living and breathing, just not in a form we want it to be. By pear shaped I mean that the professional structure almost completely collapses and the ARU goes belly up.

Although no one (least of all the ARU), has explained why they believe that running 4 teams will be any more economic than running 5. There will be costs involved in shutting down whichever team it is, and post 2020 Steve Tew has indicated that the broadcast deal would reflect the number of teams that each nation supplies. Within a couple of years, it's highly likely that the 4 teams will be running at about the same levels on and off the field as they are now.

I can't really see a future for the professional game in Australia where super rugby runs at a loss and the Wallabies brand is fast losing its lustre, to the extent that it won't be the cash cow that it once was.

I don't think that complete collapse is out of the question, in fact it may be closer than many think.

 

[BLR]

Although no one (least of all the ARU), has explained why they believe that running 4 teams will be any more economic than running 5.

Well I remember when the ARC was canned one of the reasons was costs travelling to WA despite the Spirit being one of the only, if not, the only team to turn a profit.

I am sure this is their reasoning despite any evidence otherwise.

 

[Gnostic]

Does anybody really think with the state of Super Rugby that the competition will exist to sign another deal, and that it will be anywhere near what this one is?

In automotive terms the media outlets bought a Porsche but when they took delivery it was a 944, had all the badges but it wasn't a Porsche.

 

[KOB1987]

My tapatalk screen right now:

 

[Quick Hands]

Does anybody really think with the state of Super Rugby that the competition will exist to sign another deal, and that it will be anywhere near what this one is?

In automotive terms the media outlets bought a Porsche but when they took delivery it was a 944, had all the badges but it wasn't a Porsche.

It shouldn't exist. It's time has passed IMO. It suits NZ to keep it going though, which would be the only thing which will save it.

I know a few South Africans, and they all think that the SA rugby would be better with just Currie Cup and Spingboks. I'm certainly of the view that we would be better off with a better resourced and funded NRC and the Wallabies only.

To me, Super Rugby seems to be a huge money pit which rugby authorities are just chucking money. It's not even close to breaking even in Australia and that money has to come from somewhere.

I also notice that broadcasters are starting to take stock of the money that the pay for TV rights. Channel 9 are apparently questioning the amount the they pay for cricket for example. The fact that Channel 7 are willing to screen a Shute Shield match live on their second FTA channel every Saturday, but won't touch super rugby with a long pole should tell people something.

The ARU should start planning for life without super rugby now, so that we can withdraw with a funded and sustainable national competition ready to go as soon as our legal commitments to super rugby are finished.

So to answer your questions; will super rugby exist for the next deal - don't know but it shouldn't; will the broadcast deal be as lucrative - no way, and we'll get less of a share of it with similar costs.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes I get people wanting to see complete collapse etc and ARU go bankrupt with hopes could slowly rebuilt from scratch.

So much damage. Super rugby has been so badly tarnished and damaged as a product, the launch of a new product and brand post 2020 super rugby broadcast deal will be inevitable.

We hope we have a new body in place who recognises this in Oz and creates a more domestic focussed competition whether it be pro or semi pro that feeds into a new Super Rugby product that works on relegation/promotion or champions league format. A more domestically focussed (national) competition is the only answer but we need to be creative how to create it (whether it be initially a trans tasman competition or semi pro competition to slowly build and grow). As recognise this is about start small and then grow and build a stable product with continuous improvements (don't rest on your laurels) - learn the lessons from ARU incompetence read ARC, read Super Rugby expansion.

ARU needs to go as lost so much confidence of OZ rugby public I think a new body, new branding and new people equally important. We can't move forward with the ARU as they will be too scared to make the brave big strategic decisions to generate new opportunities because of their past track record and will be too risk averse.

And then yes if all professional teams go belly up in Oz then maybe we could dream of new rich dude coming in and creating a new competition not beholden to incompetent State Rugby Administrations and operate under a more central structure.

But have we not been dreaming of this for last decade and only waking up to the current nightmare that is Australian Professional Rugby and shattered dreams and major missed opportunities. Meanwhile the world game goes from strength to strength. Means no-one is to blame for Oz rugby's demise outside of Australia.

I have never seen so many jaded and disillusioned rusted on rugby fans who so desparately want a revolution and major change but no one seems interested to come and lead the revolution. Foxtel won't be our saviour as they support rugby in their positioning of wanting to be the one stop shop for niche sports...so who could be our saviour? Sell oz rugby out to the chinese and Allsports, outsource Australian Rugby administration to NZ, I don't know but leaving rugby in the hands of ARU and state rugby administrators is definitely not the answer as they have had their go for long enough and totally screwed us and the game enough.

So bloody over it......Where is our shining knights....come on Poido, Dwyer, Jones get a consortium together and save Oz rugby as more than ever oz rugby fans (what's left of them) would jump on the bandwagon for anyone offering something different to the current garbage served up the ARU and our state rugby administrators.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Lets have a super league war mark 2 rugby style as league longer term emerged stronger after the initial dip. Bring it on....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

http://www.rugbynews.net.au/brett-p...ing-its-a-business-when-it-isnt-run-like-one/

 

[dru]

Out of interest, what obligations are on the state RUs to be part of the ARU?

If NSW and Qld ignored their vote and simply agreed a new group to take the game forward? You'd imagine RWA would jump in. Cox/Melboune and perhaps ACT might be more involved, but if it got rolling they'd have little choice.

ARU can get on board, or vanish, who cares.

Right now, I'd be happy for this to come from Papworth et al.

 

[dru]

In automotive terms the media outlets bought a Porsche but when they took delivery it was a 944, had all the badges but it wasn't a Porsche.

It's a side issue, however I suspect you mean the 924. Which is also a little unfair, designed for VW by Porsche using Porsche components. Wasnt well loved by the Porsche fandom as at the time they didnt like water pumpers. VW dropped the project but Porsche loved it so much they went into production.

The 944 was when they took the concept from scratch, built a "half-a-928", which turned out better than it had a right to be. Has a reputation for perfect balance and is certainly more highly collectible today than the 928, and even the 924 is better appreciated today.

Apologies for the side bar. I'll go quiet now.

 

[amirite]

If the ARU goes bankrupt, or the state RUs ditch the peak body, where does the bulk of the state RU's money come from? Sure, they get some from the government and some from their own commercial operations, but a lot of it comes from the ARU.

I think driving reform at ARU and state RU level is the correct avenue to fix the mess. But, how many times have you heard an intelligent, well weighted pitch for reform and what it could look like? No, I'm not talking about Pappy, Allan Jones, or forum posters saying we should burn it all down, but a real model pitched with logic.

That is what we need.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Amrite you have to be so logical....

Yes we need reform at the top.....

 

[Rebels3]

I still believe the best option if it were to collapse would be;

- a 10 week trans-Tasman competition (5 aus, 5 nz, 1 Fiji). Play everyone once. Top 4 make finals
- then a 10 week domestic (5 aus + Fiji). Play everyone twice. Top 3 make finals

Very simple, easy to understand, keeps the recognizable brands (reds, tahs etc) and allows at least one guaranteed domestic success.
20 rounds of professional rugby, instead of 16 pro and 7 semi pro we currently have. Then just like up in the Europe you could have a champions cup tournament somehow incorporating teams from SA, Arg, Jap, etc. if the opportunity opened itself

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Would need more changes for trans tasman comp to work re: 5 oz and 5 nz teams via allowing more player movement between nz and oz players for any team in trans tasman comp - say allow greater foreign player quotas...and nz of course prepared to recognise that anyone who plays in trans tasman team which could mean team based in oz still eligible for all blacks.

Which means we probably have to be more in charge of our own destiny as nz shown less interest in trans tasman thing and would take a lot more thinking to get this to work than simply putting 5 oz and 5 nz sides together as that won't work without other changes as need to ensure have mechanisms to create a more evenly balanced competition (think AFL draft system and principles behind that to ensure bottom sides have priority picks - not saying lets have a draft system but more some thinking to how to create a more evenly balanced competition).

 

[I like to watch]

......I think driving reform at ARU and state RU level is the correct avenue to fix the mess. But, how many times have you heard an intelligent, well weighted pitch for reform and what it could look like? No, I'm not talking about Pappy, Allan Jones, or forum posters saying we should burn it all down, but a real model pitched with logic.

That is what we need.

The ARU is predominantly made up of successful business people with good intentions, vacancies are filled by like minded people that are known to them.

Any talk of reforms would just be rebuffed, as they don't see themselves as failures, and in any case how could anyone less successful in life, know more about the issue than them.
That's their logic.
Unfortunately only total failure,or very close to it, is the only precursor to real reform.
Unfortunately.