Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Can white guys play for MP (Moana Pasifika)? Struggling to see how this isnt just a 6th Super Rugby side based on racial discrimination.

Yep, but they want 80% to be eligible to play for Tonga or Samoa. There is absolutely no racial discrmination involved, as NZ and Aus have same policies more or less, as do france etc etc.

 

[Dan54]

I'd assumed the players would have to be qualified for a Pacific team, perhaps with a few non-qlaified marquee spots?

So if a white guy qualifies for Samoa, he could play for MP (Moana Pasifika).

Actually wouldn't even have to be qualified to play for Samoa OR TONGA, just in the 20% they have said doesn't have to qualify.

 

[Brumby Runner]

This thing is for 2 years. Have a Top 4 + also bin the extra 3 rounds in the regular season to free up space.

Use that space to play another round-robin of Super AU - therefore, full home and away.

Add a Super AU Grand Final. The Super Rugby Pasifika SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (syrup) final in Christchurch is then played as a lead-in curtain-raiser to the AU GF.

(unless one of our teams is still in the syrup, in which case bump a week)

Win-win.

Along the lines of my suggestion a day or two ago. Of course I like it.

 

[dru]

I'd assumed the players would have to be qualified for a Pacific team, perhaps with a few non-qlaified marquee spots?

So if a white guy qualifies for Samoa, he could play for MP (Moana Pasifika).

I'm sure that every white rugby player in Samoa and Tonga has it in mind.

 

[Adam84]

At least one kiwi acknowledges the issue, sadly it’s the truth..

A competition which lacks competitiveness will be a failure, this is the reason why Australian fans didn’t want a TT tournament.

The Crusaders legend said: “I think if you look across the board at the competition next year, you’re going to probably look at a 90 per cent, 80 per cent win rate for New Zealand teams.

“That’s not great for the competition, and it’s not going to be great for the guys playing the games.

'That's not great for the competition': Ex-All Blacks skipper's dire prediction for Aussie Super teams — The Roar

Former All Blacks captain Kieran Read has called on Australia’s Super Rugby teams to step up for the sake of the Kiwis playing in the new Super Rugby Pacific competition.

apple.news

 

[Adam84]

Mate everyone got what they wanted, otherwise they wouldn't of signed for it. I not sure anyone got exactly what they wanted, I know Aus got earlier start than NZR wanted, and I guessing the 8 team finals may well be an Aus idea. I really don't know why you should be any unhappier than me with what we have ended up with. You really need to swap from the victim mentallity and look at positives, we have a comp that all sides & TV want (or they wouldn't of signed for it) including a couple of teams from PIs, so think we should enjoy.
Well I will anyway, or I wouldn't watch.
can I add I would be deleriuously happy if RA then played a Super AU type comp without test players at end of year, as a way to build depth!

No everyone didn’t get what they wanted.

Australian fans wanted a Super Rugby AU tournament..
Or if it were to be a Super Rugby TR tournament then there needed to be mechanisms in place to ensure competitiveness across all teams. Things like revenue sharing and removing residence requirements on Kiwis representing the all blacks would go a long way.

You seem happy with this design though, good for you.

 

[Tomikin]

I'd assumed the players would have to be qualified for a Pacific team, perhaps with a few non-qlaified marquee spots?

So if a white guy qualifies for Samoa, he could play for MP (Moana Pasifika).

or I suppose they could declare and spend 5 years becoming eligible ?

 

[Joe King]

Anyone who thinks some extra derby games will be nice for those who enjoyed Super Rugby AU, hasn't been listening.

 

[Joe King]

If the AU teams were equally competitive with the NZ teams, this competition would be great.
However, over the next couple of years at least, the NZ teams are going to win 80% of games I fear.
The cry for change is going to be as loud, if not louder, than it was towards the end of old Super Rugby.
RA will be faced with a choice: we either break away from NZ, or we create a way for our teams to be equally competitive.
I think they will do everything they can to secure the second option.
I don't think they will entertain the idea of cutting a Super Rugby team. It will be even harder then than it would be now.
I don't think we can rely on NZ to give us the help we need.
I think the conversation will come back to creating an NRC equivalent to NZ's NPC.
In fact, I bet they've already predicted this scenario and have a plan for an NRC in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if PE is the key to this.
I don't care what the NRC looks like, as long as it's the most effective model for building cohesion and developing players.

Because imagine if we really did find a way to create 5 powerhouse Super Rugby teams?
That achievement would be as great for Australian Rugby as winning the Bledisloe Cup. It may even lead to us winning the Bledisloe Cup!

 

[Dan54]

No everyone didn’t get what they wanted.

Australian fans wanted a Super Rugby AU tournament..
Or if it were to be a Super Rugby TR tournament then there needed to be mechanisms in place to ensure competitiveness across all teams. Things like revenue sharing and removing residence requirements on Kiwis representing the all blacks would go a long way.

You seem happy with this design though, good for you.

Yep fair enough Adam, I realise some Aus fans wanted a Super Au, just as some NZ fans would much prefer a Super Ao comp, and certainly not a comp with an 8 team finals etc etc.
What I meant by everyone got what they wanted, was that everyone who actually run the game got what they wanted, as they have all signed up for it. I bet it not exactly what either NZR or RA would maybe have preferred, but they both signed so they must (or should) be happy. Or you don't sign anything surely. I will be honest, competitiveness can only really be acheived by teams improving their structures, players skills etc, and I really have no idea how the revenue is split. But someone who know more than us is obviously happy as I said because they have all signed.

 

[Dan54]

At least one kiwi acknowledges the issue, sadly it’s the truth..

A competition which lacks competitiveness will be a failure, this is the reason why Australian fans didn’t want a TT tournament.

Mate, everyone has got an opinion, and just not all of us get asked, we only notice what we agree with and ignore the rest. Did not Stephen Hoiles continually say that Aus needed to cut to 3 teams? It's an opinion , that we probably don't agree with so noone likes to quote it etc.

 

[Bullrush]

No everyone didn’t get what they wanted.

Australian fans wanted a Super Rugby AU tournament..
Or if it were to be a Super Rugby TR tournament then there needed to be mechanisms in place to ensure competitiveness across all teams. Things like revenue sharing and removing residence requirements on Kiwis representing the all blacks would go a long way.

You seem happy with this design though, good for you.

Talk about going around in circles.

NZ didn't get everything they wanted either. Originally they wanted 3 teams from Australia because they do actually care about the competitiveness of the comp. As I've mentioned time and again, RA are just not committed enough to starting and developing its own NRC and so keeps pushing for 5. Well done - you got what you wanted.

As for NZ removing residence requirements, this could go for RA as well who denied a request by James O'Connor to spend a year with the Chiefs.

So spare us the tears.

 

[dru]

As for NZ removing residence requirements, this could go for RA as well who denied a request by James O'Connor to spend a year with the Chiefs.

So spare us the tears.

No tears. Should work both ways for sure.

 

[Adam84]

As for NZ removing residence requirements, this could go for RA as well who denied a request by James O'Connor to spend a year with the Chiefs.

Think about it Bullrush, if the intent is a competitive tournament then how would realising JOC (James O'Connor) from a contract early to play for the Chiefs improve the competitiveness disparity?

If this were an open system i would be fine with it, but you can't have one side agree and the other not.. Reality is NZ has more player depth then Australia, there's going to be more kiwis in Australia than vice versa.

 

[Bandar]

RA as well who denied a request by James O'Connor to spend a year with the Chiefs.

Pretty sure he was still under contract - so they didn't grant him a release to join another team - slight difference. But yes it should go both ways

 

[Adam84]

Yep fair enough Adam, I realise some Aus fans wanted a Super Au, just as some NZ fans would much prefer a Super Ao comp, and certainly not a comp with an 8 team finals etc etc.
What I meant by everyone got what they wanted, was that everyone who actually run the game got what they wanted, as they have all signed up for it. I bet it not exactly what either NZR or RA would maybe have preferred, but they both signed so they must (or should) be happy. Or you don't sign anything surely. I will be honest, competitiveness can only really be acheived by teams improving their structures, players skills etc, and I really have no idea how the revenue is split. But someone who know more than us is obviously happy as I said because they have all signed.

well the proof will be in the pudding mate... Australian teams will probably have a 10-20% win rate against the kiwis and fans on both sides of the Tasman will switch off once again. In 12 - 24 months we will be back at square one because these organisations can't get the fundamentals of a healthy competition right.

 

[Dan54]

Pretty sure he was still under contract - so they didn't grant him a release to join another team - slight difference. But yes it should go both ways

Of course it has to work both ways, and does as both countries have rules about player eligibilty if they aren't contracted or play in their own country. See Samoa and Tonga allow theur players to represent them if they earn their coin in NZ, and so NZR have said that up tp 3 ABs can play for MP (Moana Pasifika). I wonder if RA will allow Wallabies to do same? (Don't think they should, just pointing out that it actually does happen)

 

[Adam84]

Of course it has to work both ways, and does as both countries have rules about player eligibilty if they aren't contracted or play in their own country. See Samoa and Tonga allow theur players to represent them if they earn their coin in NZ, and so NZR have said that up tp 3 ABs can play for MP (Moana Pasifika). I wonder if RA will allow Wallabies to do same? (Don't think they should, just pointing out that it actually does happen)

If RA had board representatives on the Moana Pasifika like NZRU does, and it was based in Australia then im sure they would also allow Australian players to represent them.

Fijian Drua are independent and id be happy for Australian qualified players to play for the Drua, although i doubt that will happen.

 

[Bullrush]

Think about it Bullrush, if the intent is a competitive tournament then how would realising JOC (James O'Connor) from a contract early to play for the Chiefs improve the competitiveness disparity?

If this were an open system i would be fine with it, but you can't have one side agree and the other not.. Reality is NZ has more player depth then Australia, there's going to be more kiwis in Australia than vice versa.

Because it would have made O'Connor a better player. Like Speight. Like Leali'ifano. Short-sighted.

 

[Dan54]

Of course it wn't happen, I was only saying it lightheartedly, but then realised that actually they are doing something to help make MP (Moana Pasifika) a bit stronger. I suppose if they followed your logic for Fiji to have players if Drua are based in Aus, NZR should do same for any Aus teams based in NZ?


Don't worry I taking the p***.
Just out of interest who are the NZR board memebers on MP (Moana Pasifika)??

And out of interest I thought RA were right to say no to JOC (James O'Connor), but would suggest sending players to NPC (until Aus one get's up and running) would be beneficial to Aus rugby.