Where to for Super Rugby?

[Wilson]

And out of interest I thought RA were right to say no to JOC (James O'Connor), but would suggest sending players to NPC (until Aus one get's up and running) would be beneficial to Aus rugby.

They already do - Angus Scott Young is there right now. It is organized more by the super teams though I think.

I would really like to see a more formal process for this, at least if there is no NRC e.g. Reds have a partnership with Bay of Plenty and send 3-5 guys over each year, keeping them all in the one place to play and train together. Ideally though this would be done with a top level northern hemisphere side with a swap available the other way e.g. Reds pair with Harlequins and send a few players over in the off season. Then during the super rugby season a few players from quins come over to the reds in the same way Olowofela did for the Force. Potentially you build on this partnership and play a game or two against each other at either end of the season, assuming the economics work out.

 

[John S]

Aaron Mauger has been tipped to get the head coaching gig:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Also looks the NZRU are going to allow them to pick up 3 current All Blacks without them sacrificing the jersey.

I get that NZRU are doing that to help out MP (Moana Pasifika), but surely it would be logical for Aus and NZ to make selection for Super Rugby teams open to either side of the ditch and keep eligibility for Wobs/AB selection (maybe with a similar cap per team)? I'm pretty sure that's been mentioned before........

 

[Bandar]

I get that NZRU are doing that to help out MP (Moana Pasifika), but surely it would be logical for Aus and NZ to make selection for Super Rugby teams open to either side of the ditch and keep eligibility for Wobs/AB selection (maybe with a similar cap per team)? I'm pretty sure that's been mentioned before....

I thought I read somewhere that RA were going to allow selection from any super rugby side - it was a while ago and maybe it was they would be open to considering it.

Anyway I think all countries involved should allow selection from any team in the comp. Australian from Drua, MP (Moana Pasifika) or NZ and vice-versa. Happy for Aus to lead the way and start selecting any eligible players now...

 

[Derpus]

I thought I read somewhere that RA were going to allow selection from any super rugby side - it was a while ago and maybe it was they would be open to considering it.

Anyway I think all countries involved should allow selection from any team in the comp. Australian from Drua, MP (Moana Pasifika) or NZ and vice-versa. Happy for Aus to lead the way and start selecting any eligible players now.

Well they've announced they will ease the Giteau law so they may already be eligible.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Wayne Smith wants free selection (of All Blacks) to allow more movement of players: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/if-australia-wants-five-super-teams-kiwis-must-make-up-the-numbers-20210830-Wayne Smith wants free selection (of All Blacks) to allow more movement of players: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/if-australia-wants-five-super-teams-kiwis-must-make-up-the-numbers-

A competition which lacks competitiveness will be a failure, this is the reason why Australian fans didn’t want a TT tournament.

You notice the more open border policy rejected short term but recognised consideration beyond that. To me inevitable if maintain TT will see open borders policy. Probably take a change in nzru leadership and more progressive forward thinkers to come on board but as Read states seeing kiwi teams with 80-90% win rate for nothing for the players - let alone the fans. I increasingly feel inevitable will happen but whether that is 3, 5 or 10 years in part depends on whether clean out of nzru leadership and appointment of more progressive forward thinkers who see the inevitable.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Wayne Smith wants free selection (of All Blacks) to allow more movement of players: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/if-australia-wants-five-super-teams-kiwis-must-make-up-the-numbers-20210830-Wayne Smith wants free selection (of All Blacks) to allow more movement of players: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/if-australia-wants-five-super-teams-kiwis-must-make-up-the-numbers-

A competition which lacks competitiveness will be a failure, this is the reason why Australian fans didn’t want a TT tournament.

You notice the more open border policy rejected short term but recognised consideration beyond that. To me inevitable if maintain TT will see open borders policy. Probably take a change in nzru leadership and more progressive forward thinkers to come on board but as Read states seeing kiwi teams with 80-90% win rate for nothing for the players - let alone the fans. I increasingly feel inevitable will happen but whether that is 3, 5 or 10 years in part depends on whether clean out of nzru leadership and appointment of more progressive forward thinkers who see the inevitable

I thought I read somewhere that RA were going to allow selection from any super rugby side - it was a while ago and maybe it was they would be open to considering it.

Anyway I think all countries involved should allow selection from any team in the comp. Australian from Drua, MP (Moana Pasifika) or NZ and vice-versa. Happy for Aus to lead the way and start selecting any eligible players now.

yep need someone to take the lead here and I reckon others will follow.

 

[Quick Hands]

I can't get past top 8 of 12 teams,

Since when do professional athletes need a participation award. Surely top 6 would be enough, any team with less then 50% winning record does not deserve to play finals.

I hear that RA wanted a Top 10 but the Kiwis finally had to say no.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'd assumed the players would have to be qualified for a Pacific team, perhaps with a few non-qlaified marquee spots?

So if a white guy qualifies for Samoa, he could play for MP (Moana Pasifika).

According to the article published earlier they can sign 3 All Blacks, plus any Wallaby or All Black returning from overseas (Europe and Japan I presume). Seems like there's a lot of latitude in that.

I think pretty much anyone will be able to play for them (as long as they can survive living in South Auckland )

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I get that NZRU are doing that to help out MP (Moana Pasifika), but surely it would be logical for Aus and NZ to make selection for Super Rugby teams open to either side of the ditch and keep eligibility for Wobs/AB selection (maybe with a similar cap per team)? I'm pretty sure that's been mentioned before....

So nzru allow exemption for MP (Moana Pasifika) but not Fiji or oz super rugby teams. Rather then just do it for one team it would make sense to do for all.

 

[mst]

Aaron Mauger has been tipped to get the head coaching gig:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Also looks the NZRU are going to allow them to pick up 3 current All Blacks without them sacrificing the jersey.

I will be interested to see at the end of this 2yr TT concept if the MP (Moana Pasifika) team and even the Fiji team retain much of connection to the original identity that is being spruiked currently.

Its already looking like the MP (Moana Pasifika) will be primarily in name only rather than composition and essentially will be the 6th Kiwi team.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I will be interested to see at the end of this 2yr TT concept if the MP (Moana Pasifika) team and even the Fiji team retain much of connection to the original identity that is being spruiked currently.

Its already looking like the MP (Moana Pasifika) will be primarily in name only rather than composition and essentially will be the 6th Kiwi team.

This is just so nzru - we will make exemptions for MP (Moana Pasifika) for players to play for them and represent all blacks but won’t do it for other super rugby teams.

If ever you wanted evidence this is a kiwi designed TT competition to only suit nzru interests you have the evidence here in spades.

The problem of course is not so much nzru here but rather the competition not being left to be designed and run by an outside organisation that is either independent or at least has equal representation by relevant national rugby bodies of those involved.

 

[Dan54]

This is just so nzru - we will make exemptions for MP (Moana Pasifika) for players to play for them and represent all blacks but won’t do it for other super rugby teams.

If ever you wanted evidence this is a kiwi designed TT competition to only suit nzru interests you have the evidence here in spades.

The problem of course is not so much nzru here but rather the competition being left to be designed and run by an outside organisation that is either independent or at least has equal representation by relevant national rugby bodies of those involved

I think it pretty obvious that MP (Moana Pasifika) get exemptions becuase at this stage they will operate out of NZ, that is meant to be looked at agaon when MP (Moana Pasifika) is up and running properly and look to base themselves back in Islands, which is what the long term goal is
If you really think this is a kiwi designed TT comp and RA has signed up for it, you obviously will have to withdraw all your comments about how good Hamish and RA are, because no Rugby board would sign up for something that only suits someone else, well not if they are in anyway competent!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think it pretty obvious that MP (Moana Pasifika) get exemptions becuase at this stage they will operate out of NZ, that is meant to be looked at agaon when MP (Moana Pasifika) is up and running properly and look to base themselves back in Islands, which is what the long term goal is
If you really think this is a kiwi designed TT comp and RA has signed up for it, you obviously will have to withdraw all your comments about how good Hamish and RA are, because no Rugby board would sign up for something that only suits someone else, well not if they are in anyway competent!

I think RA do what they can but also lack of choices means they don’t end up with the ideal. The lack of choices is funding related.

Come on Dan you yourself have admitted this is a largely kiwi designed competition. And every time you make excuses for nzru like with MP (Moana Pasifika). So why not have the same exemption given to Drua or oz super rugby sides as last time I checked they all have some challenges. Of course nzru can never do anything wrong in your eyes and no self interest behind any of this.

 

[Bullrush]

I think RA do what they can but also lack of choices means they don’t end up with the ideal. The lack of choices is funding related.

Come on Dan you yourself have admitted this is a largely kiwi designed competition. And every time you make excuses for nzru like with MP (Moana Pasifika). So why not have the same exemption given to Drua or oz super rugby sides as last time I checked they all have some challenges. Of course nzru can never do anything wrong in your eyes and no self interest behind any of this.

If it was a NZ designed competition, there would only be 3 Australian teams.

If RA think they have the depth for 5 teams then you shouldn’t also be asking for NZ players. Not only do you want Super Rugby to serve as your domestic competition, you want NZ players making it competitive as well

 

[dru]

If it was a NZ designed competition, there would only be 3 Australian teams.

If RA think they have the depth for 5 teams then you shouldn’t also be asking for NZ players. Not only do you want Super Rugby to serve as your domestic competition, you want NZ players making it competitive as well

Bullrush. NZRU failed to gather EOI from three Australian teams. A fail to do what they want, does not mean they are not the designer of this comp.

 

[Bullrush]

C

Bullrush. NZRU failed to gather EOI from three Australian teams. A fail to do what they want, does not mean they are not the designer of this comp.

When you don't have one of the most basic and key elements of your design - how many teams are in the competition - then it's a bit rich to say that it is largely a NZ designed competition.

And it still doesn't take away from my point - you guys wanted 5 teams and now there's bitching about NZ maintaining the same rules they haves always had simply because you don't have the depth to be competitive?!

Again, RA wants Super Rugby to be the Australian domestic competition but you guys want NZ to allow its Kiwi players to play in it. Even though you wouldn't let an Aussie play in a NZ team. LOL

All of your problems lay squarely at the feet of RA and has little to do with NZR.

 

[Bandar]

you guys want NZ to allow its Kiwi players to play in it. Even though you wouldn't let an Aussie play in a NZ team. LOL.

I want any player to play for any team in the competition without prejudice

 

[Bullrush]

I want any player to play for any team in the competition without prejudice

I don't know if I would use the word 'prejudice' but I agree

 

[Adam84]

Because it would have made O'Connor a better player. Like Speight. Like Leali'ifano. Short-sighted.

You’ve missed the point Bullrush..
Unless its a two way street then this doesn’t work, especially flowing from NZ to Australia. This would have only further weakened Australian Super Rugby teams competitiveness. It’s not good enough to invest everything in the Wallabies, Australia needs success at Super Rugby level as well.

I’m happy for JOC (James O'Connor) to play for the Chiefs, if the NZRU allow Beauden Barrett to play for the Reds…What’s shortsighted is that this isn‘t supported right now.

 

[Adam84]

If it was a NZ designed competition, there would only be 3 Australian teams.

If RA think they have the depth for 5 teams then you shouldn’t also be asking for NZ players. Not only do you want Super Rugby to serve as your domestic competition, you want NZ players making it competitive as well

Ahh of course, we’re back to the Aratipu Report, what a fucken disaster that was.

It was so naieve and shortsighted, it spent zero effort in understanding the Australian rugby supporter base or economic implications, its sole purpose was on how does Australia ’enable‘ New Zealand rugby, and made no effort at all to consider what is best for Australia.

You’ve made the same mistake, assuming that the only measure of where a team should go, or be based is made on the number of available players in that area right now. That is not the way to expand the game in the region! Just a look at the NRL and AFL, they have increased the value of their codes by growing into regions which have significant growth potential, in both players and economically. That’s how you grow a game, not by cutting teams from markets which represent 8million people and that’s what NZRU wanted to do.

Who gives a crap if the players are kiwi or Australian, open the flood gates and let it flow both ways. It works for NRL and fans don’t give a shit if its a kiwi/samoan/Tongan player In their team, they support the fact they have competitive teams to support.